GA Dems propose limitations on vasectomies

#101
#101
lawgator1 said:
Obviously, their proposal is a stunt, designed to call attention to the fact that the Republicans are trying to control women's reproductive systems.

Republicans introduce weird crap all the time in state legislatures and even the Congress to make a statement. Both parties do it, its common.

I am a bit surprised you need help understanding what is going on.
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Great.........thanks
 
#102
#102
lawgator1 said:
Obviously, their proposal is a stunt, designed to call attention to the fact that the Republicans are trying to control women's reproductive systems.

Republicans introduce weird crap all the time in state legislatures and even the Congress to make a statement. Both parties do it, its common.

I am a bit surprised you need help understanding what is going on.
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It's a stretch to call abortion restriction controlling reproductive systems. It is and has always been primarily about protecting another entity. The debate is whether or not that entity has rights.
 
#103
#103
volinbham said:
It's a stretch to call abortion restriction controlling reproductive systems. It is and has always been primarily about protecting another entity. The debate is whether or not that entity has rights.
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Uh......hello.......you are white and conservative
 
#105
#105
volinbham said:
It's a stretch to call abortion restriction controlling reproductive systems. It is and has always been primarily about protecting another entity. The debate is whether or not that entity has rights.
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Isn't that always the problem with this debate? It's always an argument among people arguing two different premises.
 
#106
#106
lawgator1 said:
Obviously, their proposal is a stunt, designed to call attention to the fact that the Republicans are trying to control women's reproductive systems.

Republicans introduce weird crap all the time in state legislatures and even the Congress to make a statement. Both parties do it, its common.

I am a bit surprised you need help understanding what is going on.
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So you excuse this stunt because the R's do it too? It's amazing how much these two parties have in common.
 
#107
#107
volinbham said:
It is if you are an R - an evil, racist, poor-hatin', hypocritical R. If you are a D it's a well-reasoned and nuanced view of the world.
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The fact is that this is not, and should not be, a party-based issue. I know plenty of Republicans who are pro choice and shudder whenever their party gets pigeon-holed on the issue as necessarily in favor of higher regulation of abortion.

I know less Democrats that are pro-life, but some.

I would say that most people of conscience that I know, regardless of party, are very torn on the whole thing because both sides have good arguments. I would say that people get nervous when some sort of hardcore proposal comes down on either side, like the forced vaginal ultrasound thing in Virginia.

People seem okay overall with where we are right now, which is the admittedly arbitrary trimester resolution. I personally don't understand that distinction, either, other than it seems to give the woman enough time to decide what she wants to do.
 
#110
#110
lawgator1 said:
The fact is that this is not, and should not be, a party-based issue. I know plenty of Republicans who are pro choice and shudder whenever their party gets pigeon-holed on the issue as necessarily in favor of higher regulation of abortion.

I know less Democrats that are pro-life, but some.

I would say that most people of conscience that I know, regardless of party, are very torn on the whole thing because both sides have good arguments. I would say that people get nervous when some sort of hardcore proposal comes down on either side, like the forced vaginal ultrasound thing in Virginia.

People seem okay overall with where we are right now, which is the admittedly arbitrary trimester resolution. I personally don't understand that distinction, either, other than it seems to give the woman enough time to decide what she wants to do.
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Shouldn't be a party issue but you went ahead an made it one with your rant about social conservatives. Just playing off your move.
 
#111
#111
lawgator1 said:
I would say that people get nervous when some sort of hardcore proposal comes down on either side, like the forced vaginal ultrasound thing in Virginia.
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the bill was changed but to an external ultrasound that won't even work on the early-term women
 
#112
#112
GAVol said:
Isn't that always the problem with this debate? It's always an argument among people arguing two different premises.
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It's at least a big part of the problem. It's a bit like how the contraceptive requirement is being framed. Dems are framing it as a women's issue. R's (at least some) are framing it as a "why should they government force companies to give something for free" issue.

No R I've heard is suggesting we ban contraceptives but it's being framed that way.
 
#114
#114
utvolpj said:
that "child" is basically a parasite. (some would say that extends well past birth but I'm not there...yet)
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I cannot accept that statement as a reasonable basis for a pro abortion argument. If that assumption is accepted, when does the child become a child? When "it" is weaned; when "it" turns 18; when "it" moves out of the parents home? If "it" moves back in with mom at some point, is "it' again legally a parasite and therefore subject to destruction by the mother?
 
#115
#115
lawgator1 said:
The fact is that this is not, and should not be, a party-based issue. I know plenty of Republicans who are pro choice and shudder whenever their party gets pigeon-holed on the issue as necessarily in favor of higher regulation of abortion.

I know less Democrats that are pro-life, but some.

I would say that most people of conscience that I know, regardless of party, are very torn on the whole thing because both sides have good arguments. I would say that people get nervous when some sort of hardcore proposal comes down on either side, like the forced vaginal ultrasound thing in Virginia.

People seem okay overall with where we are right now, which is the admittedly arbitrary trimester resolution. I personally don't understand that distinction, either, other than it seems to give the woman enough time to decide what she wants to do.
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So you share my position on the issue and the same dichotomy exists in the Democratic Party, but Republicans are the ones that have a problem and I'm a regulation loving wing nut. It's all clear to me now.
 
#116
#116
GAVol said:
So you share my position on the issue and the same dichotomy exists in the Democratic Party, but Republicans are the ones that have a problem and I'm a regulation loving wing nut. It's all clear to me now.
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lol

lg is comedy gold
 
#117
#117
volinbham said:
Shouldn't be a party issue but you went ahead an made it one with your rant about social conservatives. Just playing off your move.
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And that was a retort to the thread title, which makes it a party issue.

I'm just saying that it is really only the hard line folks on either side that want to tie party to this, probably in hopes of strength in numbers.

What would you say? Maybe 80 percent of the American people are okay with the status quo and its the 10 percent on either side trying to make it an issue for the rest of us in every election?
 
#118
#118
GAVol said:
So you share my position on the issue and the same dichotomy exists in the Democratic Party, but Republicans are the ones that have a problem and I'm a regulation loving wing nut. It's all clear to me now.
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I'm not sure I understand.

Who is pushing for reform these days? The Dems? No. But folks like Santorum use it to try to galvanize support within his party around an issue where he has the upper hand on his competition.

I just think its mostly politics as usual.
 
#119
#119
Headed For Home said:
I cannot accept that statement as a reasonable basis for a pro abortion argument. If that assumption is accepted, when does the child become a child? When "it" is weaned; when "it" turns 18; when "it" moves out of the parents home? If "it" moves back in with mom at some point, is "it' again legally a parasite and therefore subject to destruction by the mother?
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no one (or very, very few) are pro-abortion

if you look at the definition of a parasite then how is it not? You're the one assigning a negative meaning to the word.

And no, you can't kill your 25yo kid when they move back home and miss a rent payment
 
#120
#120
lawgator1 said:
And that was a retort to the thread title, which makes it a party issue.

I'm just saying that it is really only the hard line folks on either side that want to tie party to this, probably in hopes of strength in numbers.

What would you say? Maybe 80 percent of the American people are okay with the status quo and its the 10 percent on either side trying to make it an issue for the rest of us in every election?
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I think it's more like 25-50-25.
 
#123
#123
lawgator1 said:
I don't think its nearly that many on the extremes, I really don't.

But dang they are loud, aren't they?
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I can't really say on the left, but I'd be shocked if the number on the right wasn't higher than 10%. There are a lot of evangelicals out there.
 
#124
#124
utvolpj said:
no one (or very, very few) are pro-abortion

if you look at the definition of a parasite then how is it not? You're the one assigning a negative meaning to the word.

And no, you can't kill your 25yo kid when they move back home and miss a rent payment
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Hey, you are the one justifying the right to abort by calling the child a parasite. Sounds like a negative connotation to me.

You did not address the issue. When is "it" a child instead of a parasite>
 
#125
#125
I think the 25-50-25 is probably about right. You have the evangelicals and you have the NARAL and NOW types. One wants a complete ban and the other wants no restrictions.
 
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