'19 GA S Jaylen McCollough (Tennessee signee)

[Glitch]

Here's a crazy idea. GET BACK TO WORK AND LET THE COACHES WORRY ABOUT IT!!!

Now back to what I was doing...

 

[T Dog]

Day

Dayum that red tho. Let's talk about that.

 

[Montrell Hardy]

Been patiently waiting for McCollough... he’s been my guy in this class for a while now.. really starting to think we are moving on but I hope I’m wrong on that.

If he waits as long as he says he's going to, then I doubt we will have room for him.

 

[LowKey]

Vols class of 2054 has run out of all color shirts to borrow from... even the steel shirt (which obviously allows mechanical-Americans of all five gender indentifiers to transfer equivalently)...and ends up with a class of 0

Pretty sure they'll have some "Champions of Life" shirts left.

 

[Sleegro]

It's not the same thing. Blueshirts enroll for the fall semester and join the team after the first day of fall practice. Summer sessions are part of the 2018 academic calendar; fall session is the start of the 2019 academic calendar. So players who enroll in summer and join the team in summer can't blueshirt or grayshirt. Their enrollment and scholarships aren't deferred. They are midyear enrollees.

The NCAA didn't amend the midyear replacement rule. Normally, initial counters count against the 25 limit in the academic year in which they enroll. Under the midyear replacement rule, midyear enrollees can count against the initial limit (25) either in the academic year they enroll OR in the following academic year-- as long as there is room in the 85. So our 2018 summer enrollees can join the team in 2018 and forward-count to 2019, which is how it worked out once we hit the 25 limit for 2018.

It's actually more complicated than this, and stipulations apply, but this is the gist. And yes, we can do it again next year as long as we have space and meet the stipulations.

But it's basically the same idea right? Just can't call it a blueshirt?

Just a sidenote, the article posted earlier with the quote from the WVU Director of Player Personnel described this exactly with enrolling in summer and whatnot, and called it a blueshirt.

So regardless of what everybody wants to call it, we have 22 spots left for next year that we can use on highly recruited players and possibly 3 spots we can forward count for guys who may slip through the cracks. Cause I don't see anyway to use those 3 "midyear replacement" spots on any of the highly coveted guys we are in on right now.

 

[LA Vol]

But it's basically the same idea right? Just can't call it a blueshirt?

Just a sidenote, the article posted earlier with the quote from the WVU Director of Player Personnel described this exactly with enrolling in summer and whatnot, and called it a blueshirt.

So regardless of what everybody wants to call it, we have 22 spots left for next year that we can use on highly recruited players and possibly 3 spots we can forward count for guys who may slip through the cracks. Cause I don't see anyway to use those 3 "midyear replacement" spots on any of the highly coveted guys we are in on right now.

Different people use different terminology, which makes things even more confusing. But a blueshirt can't be formally recruited and can't be put on athletic scholarship until fall. Midyear enrollees work out with the team, have access to the facilities for S&C, nutrition, academics, etc. once they officially enroll. Not sure what WVU is doing, but blueshirts can't join the team in summer.

But nutshelling it, yes, we have 22 initial counter spots left for 2019 and the highly rated recruits we're in on aren't going to be interested in grayshirting. If there are players the coaches want to sign and enroll midyear, that's an option, as long as we have room in the 85. It's also possible we'll have PWOs that the coaches could put on scholarship-- maybe James, if he works out.

 

[mrmax86]

Can somebody create a thread for arguing about how many recruiting spots we have, then merge all these into it?

 

[Glitch]

Can somebody create a thread for arguing about how many recruiting spots we have, then merge all these into it?

Let me work on that...

 

[T Dog]

Let me work on that...

Love that gif. Lol

 

[WinginFlorida]

Let me work on that...

If they have trash pickup twice a week, the residents will go broke...

 

[Sleegro]

Different people use different terminology, which makes things even more confusing. But a blueshirt can't be formally recruited and can't be put on athletic scholarship until fall. Midyear enrollees work out with the team, have access to the facilities for S&C, nutrition, academics, etc. once they officially enroll. Not sure what WVU is doing, but blueshirts can't join the team in summer.

But nutshelling it, yes, we have 22 initial counter spots left for 2019 and the highly rated recruits we're in on aren't going to be interested in grayshirting. If there are players the coaches want to sign and enroll midyear, that's an option, as long as we have room in the 85. It's also possible we'll have PWOs that the coaches could put on scholarship-- maybe James, if he works out.

In the article about WVU he said they enrolled in summer classes on their own dime and were put on scholarship in the fall so I think its pretty much the same thing. Same result anyway. And I think this rule definitely encourages more giving scholarships to PWOs which is good for them and may help convincing borderline kids to do that.

 

[reVOLution33]

Chryst, London and Kennedy qualify as initial counters under the NCAA's midyear graduate replacement rule. They can count back against the 85 and forward-count against the 25 in 2019. UT had room in the 85 to do that.

They can't be grayshirts-- they enrolled this summer and are playing this year. And the blueshirt loophole was closed. They wouldn't have been eligible to blueshirt anyway.

So you can forward count against next year without them being a "grey" shirt?

 

[Sleegro]

So you can forward count against next year without them being a "grey" shirt?

It sounds basically like a blue shirt but not blue. Turquoise maybe? Haha Either way it's the same outcome. Imo. And LA's explanation is definitely the most believable and understandable that I've seen.

 

[Tidal Surge]

He was a blueshirt candidate, but there ended up being a spot. We enrolled 21 by summer, including late additions Thompson and George, and all counted against 2018. Lawless and Peterson signed, so that's two more spots. Fant and Wiggins carried forward from 2017. That's 25 in 2018.

Chryst, London and Kennedy are summer enrollees forward-counted to 2019. So we have 22 initials left to sign in 2019.

You can't forward count players who receive an initial scolarship in the summer of 2018 against 2019-20 academic year limits. 2018 summer sessions are part of the 2017-18 academic year. 2018-19 academic year signees are allowed to enroll "early" in summer sessions and participate in voluntary offseason workouts. By rule, 2018-19 academic year signees must be counted against the current (2018-19) academic year's 25 signings limit. 2018 summer enrollees who are midyear replacements are treated as 2017-18 academic year signees that can count against their current (2017-18) academic year limits or the next (2018-19) academic year limits. They cannot be counted against 2019-20 academic year limits.

NCAA Bylaws: (PDF - free download)

13.9.2.3 Limitation on the Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings. [FBS] For the football bowl subdivision, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and student-athletes who may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time. (Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

13.9.2.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent (NLI) or an institutional offer of financial aid or student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent (NLI) or an institutional offer of financial aid or student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the next academic year. (Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

15.5.6.3.5 Midyear Replacement. [FBS/FCS] A counter who graduates at midyear or who graduates during the previous academic year (including summer) may be replaced by an initial counter, who shall be counted against the initial limit either for the year in which the aid is awarded (if the institution’s annual limit has not been reached) or for the following academic year, or by a student-athlete who was an initial counter in a previous academic year and is returning to the institution after time spent on active duty in the armed services or on an official religious mission. In bowl subdivision football, an institution may use the midyear replacement exception only if it previously has provided financial aid during that academic year to the maximum number of overall counters (85 total counters). In championship subdivision football, an institution may use the midyear replacement exception only if it previously has provided financial aid during that academic year that equals the maximum number of overall equivalencies or overall counters. (Revised: 4/20/99 effective 8/1/99, 6/8/99, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 8/2/05, 12/15/06, 1/14/08 effective 8/1/08, 4/2/10, 1/15/11)

 

[griddie]

Let me work on that...

One of the best I’ve ever seen. Perfect

 

[AaronUT]

Let me work on that...

You are the canteen of mud drinkin, undisputed chmpion of gifs sir @Glitch . #salute

 

[SmokinBob]

It's not the same thing. Blueshirts enroll for the fall semester and join the team after the first day of fall practice. Summer sessions are part of the 2018 academic calendar; fall session is the start of the 2019 academic calendar. So players who enroll in summer and join the team in summer can't blueshirt or grayshirt. Their enrollment and scholarships aren't deferred. They are midyear enrollees.

The NCAA didn't amend the midyear replacement rule. Normally, initial counters count against the 25 limit in the academic year in which they enroll. Under the midyear replacement rule, midyear enrollees can count against the initial limit (25) either in the academic year they enroll OR in the following academic year-- as long as there is room in the 85. So our 2018 summer enrollees can join the team in 2018 and forward-count to 2019, which is how it worked out once we hit the 25 limit for 2018.

It's actually more complicated than this, and stipulations apply, but this is the gist. And yes, we can do it again next year as long as we have space and meet the stipulations.

Great explanation LA Vol!

 

[Tidal Surge]

It's not the same thing. Blueshirts enroll for the fall semester and join the team after the first day of fall practice. Summer sessions are part of the 2018 academic calendar; fall session is the start of the 2019 academic calendar. So players who enroll in summer and join the team in summer can't blueshirt or grayshirt. Their enrollment and scholarships aren't deferred. They are midyear enrollees.

The NCAA didn't amend the midyear replacement rule. Normally, initial counters count against the 25 limit in the academic year in which they enroll. Under the midyear replacement rule, midyear enrollees can count against the initial limit (25) either in the academic year they enroll OR in the following academic year-- as long as there is room in the 85. So our 2018 summer enrollees can join the team in 2018 and forward-count to 2019, which is how it worked out once we hit the 25 limit for 2018.

It's actually more complicated than this, and stipulations apply, but this is the gist. And yes, we can do it again next year as long as we have space and meet the stipulations.

I might be wrong, but I think a player has to enroll in the 2nd or 3rd regular term to be treated as a mid year replacement. I don't think summer enrollees can be treated as midyear replacements. If they could, then any recruit who enrolls in the summer, including those who just finished HS, could be treated as a midyear replacement. The midyear replacement rule actually applies more to early (midyear) enrollees and the ability to count them against unused spots left from the prior cycle.

 

[Sleegro]

I might be wrong, but I think a player has to enroll in the 2nd or 3rd regular term to be treated as a mid year replacement. I don't think summer enrollees can be treated as midyear replacements. If they could, then any recruit who enrolls in the summer, including those who just finished HS, could be treated as a midyear replacement. The midyear replacement rule actually applies more to early (midyear) enrollees and the ability to count them against unused spots left from the prior cycle.

If fall is the first term then wouldn't summer be the 3rd? And still technically midyear. Just because its more common to enroll early doesn't change the fact that technically and historically fall is the first term.

 

[LouderVol]

Let me work on that...

got to dig up that crunchy/leb thread.

info in there is probably just as informed as we are now.

 

[Tidal Surge]

If fall is the first term then wouldn't summer be the 3rd? And still technically midyear. Just because its more common to enroll early doesn't change the fact that technically and historically fall is the first term.

Fall is indeed the first term. But fall of 2018 is not the first term of the "2019 academic year" as LA Vol stated in his prior post. Fall of 2018 is the first term of the 2018-19 academic year. Fall of 2019 is the first term of the 2019-20 academic year.

Initial enrollment in the summer of 2018 is within the 2017-18 academic year. So even if that qualifies a player to be treated as a midyear replacement, it simply means that he can be counted in that current (2017-18) academic year or the next (2018-19) academic year. It doesn't allow them to be forward counted against the 2019-20 academic year's 25 signings and 25 initial counters limits as LA Vol claims.

2018-19 academic year signees who are not midyear replacements are permitted to enroll "early" (before fall) in 2017-18 academic year summer classes on scholarship and participate in voluntary summer workout programs with the team. Most HS graduate and transfer signees do enroll in the summer.

So, regardless of whether they're midyear replacements or not, players who enroll and receive their initial scolarships in the summer of 2018 cannot be counted forward against the 25 signings and initial counters limits for the 2019-20 academic year as LA Vol claims.

NCAA Bylaws: (PDF - free download)

13.9.2.3 Limitation on the Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings. [FBS] For the football bowl subdivision, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and student-athletes who may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time. (Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

13.9.2.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent (NLI) or an institutional offer of financial aid or student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent (NLI) or an institutional offer of financial aid or student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the next academic year. (Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

15.5.6.3.5 Midyear Replacement. [FBS/FCS] A counter who graduates at midyear or who graduates during the previous academic year (including summer) may be replaced by an initial counter, who shall be counted against the initial limit either for the year in which the aid is awarded (if the institution’s annual limit has not been reached) or for the following academic year, or by a student-athlete who was an initial counter in a previous academic year and is returning to the institution after time spent on active duty in the armed services or on an official religious mission. In bowl subdivision football, an institution may use the midyear replacement exception only if it previously has provided financial aid during that academic year to the maximum number of overall counters (85 total counters). In championship subdivision football, an institution may use the midyear replacement exception only if it previously has provided financial aid during that academic year that equals the maximum number of overall equivalencies or overall counters. (Revised: 4/20/99 effective 8/1/99, 6/8/99, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 8/2/05, 12/15/06, 1/14/08 effective 8/1/08, 4/2/10, 1/15/11)

 

[butchna]

Yes grey shirts lol thats what TS is saying.

How many decent, ready to play prospects do you expect to add via this route? They have to sit a semester at home and THEN get started with their career. They have to be aware of how low they’re valued with their classmates being on the field while they watch them on TV. Not even Saban loads up on these guys. I personally don’t want one step up from PWO’s dotting the roster we’re hoping competes with UGA and Florida.

 

[butchna]

Yeah I read that article too and the director of player personnel at WVU is quoted as saying a couple weeks ago that they blueshirted 2 players. I would assume he knows the rules more than any of us or the reporters being that is his job. So I'm inclined to believe blue shirting is still a loophole. But as he pointed out, the only way to do it is by not officially recruiting them and signing them so they just enroll in the fall and play. So you are unlikely to get many quality players that way since normally those get recruited. So that is where the rub comes in. Yes we did it last year and got lucky with a couple quality guys, but if we do it again, we're probably not able to sign all these guys we're talking about now since they are being recruited. The way we get to 25 this year is sign 4 or 5 of the highly rated guys left on the board then fill it out with lightly recruited "scrubs" after NSD that a lot of posters will whine about. That is why this numbers discussion is relevant. People who complain it gets brought up are just saying "oh we'll sign 7 more highly rated guys by borrowing from next year". But that's not what will happen. We have 4 or 5 more spots for guys we're recruiting now. Then can fill the class with diamonds in the rough people like to hate on.

^ Gets it.

 

[Sleegro]

Fall is indeed the first term. But fall of 2018 is not the first term of the "2019 academic year" as you stated in your prior post. Fall of 2018 is the first term of the 2018-19 academic year. Fall of 2019 is the first term of the 2019-20 academic year. Again, I'm pretty sure initial summer enrollment does not qualify a player to be treated as a midyear replacement. I'm pretty sure that players who enroll and receive their initial scolarships in the summer of 2018 count against the signings limit for the 2018-19 academic year, just like fall enrollees do.

Well its happened at multiple schools this year and LA provided the most reasonable explanation so far. Much better than you just saying something that has happened can't happen. Explain how it's happening. Don't just keep saying it can't over and over. Obviously this is just semantics at this point. Can't call it a blue shirt so call it whatever you want. I suggested turquoise but if you don't like that maybe magenta works better for you. But it is happening so you denying it doesn't change it. There are obviously still loopholes. But hey, who am I to tell you the sky isn't blueshirt?

 

[butchna]

Maybe. But in our '18 class Brandon Davis and Norwood didn't sign because we were going to blueshirt them and pull from the '19 class. So I'm confused.

Davis made it into the class...Norwood got processed. We had 20 signees by the end of signing day. Pruitt held onto the three spots until all the pieces fell into place and those three spots went to Davis, George and Thompson. Grad transfers were allowed to count against the 19 class (blueshirt or something similar). If they’re further closing that loophole, that option won’t be available in the next class. Grad transfers will have to fit in the 22 spots we have available...or no go.