'19 GA S Jaylen McCollough (Tennessee signee)

#577
#577
Sleegro said:
Yeah I read that article too and the director of player personnel at WVU is quoted as saying a couple weeks ago that they blueshirted 2 players. I would assume he knows the rules more than any of us or the reporters being that is his job. So I'm inclined to believe blue shirting is still a loophole. But as he pointed out, the only way to do it is by not officially recruiting them and signing them so they just enroll in the fall and play. So you are unlikely to get many quality players that way since normally those get recruited. So that is where the rub comes in. Yes we did it last year and got lucky with a couple quality guys, but if we do it again, we're probably not able to sign all these guys we're talking about now since they are being recruited. The way we get to 25 this year is sign 4 or 5 of the highly rated guys left on the board then fill it out with lightly recruited "scrubs" after NSD that a lot of posters will whine about. That is why this numbers discussion is relevant. People who complain it gets brought up are just saying "oh we'll sign 7 more highly rated guys by borrowing from next year". But that's not what will happen. We have 4 or 5 more spots for guys we're recruiting now. Then can fill the class with diamonds in the rough people like to hate on.
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Yep, there has to be some way to still do it. I agree on the using Blueshirt's at all. I'd rather not have to pull from the next class so we could sign a full 25 without having to pull from the next year. I'm sure a few spots will open up as we recruit over some committed guys and others changing their mind. Can see several committed candidates for that.
 
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#578
#578
butchna said:
We had 23 eventual signees, due to Shaquille Wiggins and Princeton Fant blueshirting from the previous class. Adding three additional graduate transfers in Keller Chryst, Madre London and Brandon Kennedy shows that there is some mechanism in place to count towards the following class.
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It sounds like you're talking about 2017 class blueshirts who counted against the 2018 initial counters limit. Alabama also had a couple of 2017 blueshirts. That's the last cycle it could be done. Effective Aug 1, 2017, every player who gets an initial fall scholarship will count toward that current academic year's 25 signings limit.

Schools can still count early enrollees against unused signing and initial counters limits, and can still greyshirt. The blueshirt rule is still in the NCAA bylaws, but there is no way the old blueshirting rule can be used to put players on initial scholarships in the fall and count them against the next academic years signing limit.
 
#580
#580
Tidal Surge said:
It sounds like you're talking about 2017 class blueshirts who counted against the 2018 initial counters limit. Alabama also had a couple of 2017 blueshirts. That's the last cycle it could be done. Effective Aug 1, 2017, every player who gets an initial fall scholarship will count toward that current academic year's 25 signings limit.

Schools can still count early enrollees against unused signing and initial counters limits, and can still greyshirt. The blueshirt rule is still in the NCAA bylaws, but there is no way the old blueshirting rule can be used to put players on initial scholarships in the fall and count them against the next academic years signing limit.
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There's schools currently doing it so there's obviously some kind of way to do it. TN even had 2 guys who didn't sign in the '18 class who were going to be Blueshirt's. I know we dropped one of them.
 
#581
#581
bignewt said:
and how would it get messed up? we pay people a lot of money for that not to happen. It seems to me you could pay forward 3 scholarships to the next year indefinitely.
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we also paid Butch Jones a lot of money to win games, I think we still are in fact.
you also have to think about the NCAA continuing the trend and tightening the requirements even more. its just not a good plan to depend on more players than you are allowed to have.
 
#582
#582
LouderVol said:
we also paid Butch Jones a lot of money to win games, I think we still are in fact.
you also have to think about the NCAA continuing the trend and tightening the requirements even more. its just not a good plan to depend on more players than you are allowed to have.
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Pruitt has the plan.
 
#583
#583
jasonvol18 said:
Maybe. But in our '18 class Brandon Davis and Norwood didn't sign because we were going to blueshirt them and pull from the '19 class. So I'm confused.
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Brandon Davis is signed and enrolled in the 2018 class. UT encouraged Norwood to look elsewhere-- off-the-field issues played a role. He didn't sign an LOI. UT offered to grayshirt Litaker, and he moved on-- now signed at UTM. UT hasn't had a blueshirt since 2017.
 
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#584
#584
LA Vol said:
Brandon Davis is signed and enrolled in the 2018 class. UT encouraged Norwood to look elsewhere-- off-the-field issues played a role. He didn't sign an LOI. UT offered to grayshirt Litaker, and he moved on-- now signed at UTM. UT hasn't had a blueshirt since 2017.
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Ok cool, Thank-you. I had just read an old article that said both were Blueshirt's , but I knew Norwood wouldn't be here. That was the last I had seen on Davis, so I figured he was still considered a blueshirt.
 
#585
#585
jasonvol18 said:
Absolutely! Plus the VQ Mods and Coach Mathews said Pruitt plans to sign 25. Which would mean using a few Blueshirt's. Would be nice to not have to borrow ahead so we have a full 25 in '20, but the numbers will work themselves out.
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They will do the same next year. It will be ok, a lot of schools have to do this.
 
#586
#586
jasonvol18 said:
Ok cool, Thank-you. I had just read an old article that said both were Blueshirt's , but I knew Norwood wouldn't be here. That was the last I had seen on Davis, so I figured he was still considered a blueshirt.
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He was a blueshirt candidate, but there ended up being a spot. We enrolled 21 by summer, including late additions Thompson and George, and all counted against 2018. Lawless and Peterson signed, so that's two more spots. Fant and Wiggins carried forward from 2017. That's 25 in 2018.

Chryst, London and Kennedy are summer enrollees forward-counted to 2019. So we have 22 initials left to sign in 2019.
 
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#587
#587
LA Vol said:
He was a blueshirt candidate, but there ended up being a spot. We enrolled 21 by summer, including late additions Thompson and George, and all counted against 2018. Lawless and Peterson signed, so that's two more spots. Fant and Wiggins carried forward from 2017. That's 25 in 2018.

Chryst, London and Kennedy are summer enrollees forward-counted to 2019. So we have 22 initials left to sign in 2019.
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Is this allowed because they are grad transfers?
 
#589
#589
3rdDegreeVol said:
There are no special rules regarding grad transfers with respect to counters. They're treated just like any other transfer.
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So you can count forward then. You just can't call it a blue shirt. Even though it is exactly what a blue shirt is generally defined as. Got it. ;)
 
#590
#590
LA Vol said:
He was a blueshirt candidate, but there ended up being a spot. We enrolled 21 by summer, including late additions Thompson and George, and all counted against 2018. Lawless and Peterson signed, so that's two more spots. Fant and Wiggins carried forward from 2017. That's 25 in 2018.

Chryst, London and Kennedy are summer enrollees forward-counted to 2019. So we have 22 initials left to sign in 2019.
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That makes sense. I said this in another post but if a kid signs but then can't get in then the school should be able to find a replacement before fall semester starts. Like either a late signee or a grad transfer. Especially since you can't back count anymore. The schools should be able to utilize that if it was the players faiult he couldn't get enrolled. Either because of Academics or any trouble or issues that happened. It wouldn't give anybody an advantage because of the 85 rule but can still have a full 25 in that class.
 
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#591
#591
Sleegro said:
So you can count forward then. You just can't call it a blue shirt. Even though it is exactly what a blue shirt is generally defined as. Got it. ;)
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There's definitely some discrepancies in these by laws. If you can count forwards with grad Transfers you should be able to with recruits too. Scholarships are technically given a year at a time. Like with Kennedy, he's a grad transfer with 2 yrs left. Pretty similar to signing a JUCO as far as years available. Should be able to count them forward if need be. Everyone has the 85 limit so it's not giving anyone extra advantages. Just gives schools every opportunity to fill that 85 every season.
 
#593
#593
LA Vol said:
No. We just didn't have the spots to count them against the 2018 25. Thompson and George took the last two initial counter spots in the 2018 class.
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Right, so they enrolled in summer and are playing in fall but are counted forward to 2019 because they didn't technically sign an NLI? Which is exactly how I have seen a blue shirt defined. Which leaves us with 22 spots in '19 unless we do the same thing again. And hope to get lucky that a guy like Kennedy is available. Which normally you can't find those type of players available that late so the idea that you can just keep borrowing against next years class is misleading because it still limits the amount of highly recruited guys you can sign.
 
#594
#594
jasonvol18 said:
That makes sense. I said this in another post but if a kid signs but then can't get in then the school should be able to find a replacement before fall semester starts. Like either a late signee or a grad transfer. Especially since you can't back count anymore. The schools should be able to utilize that if it was the players faiult he couldn't get enrolled. Either because of Academics or any trouble or issues that happened. It wouldn't give anybody an advantage because of the 85 rule but can still have a full 25 in that class.
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The NCAA closed the non-qualifier loophole, so under the amended rules, if a player signs, he counts. Lawless signed an LOI, so he's an initial counter for 2018 and counts against the 25, but not against the 85 because he was never enrolled and put on scholarship.
 
#595
#595
Pages and pages and still nobody knows. Talk about an exercise in futility.
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#598
#598
Sleegro said:
Right, so they enrolled in summer and are playing in fall but are counted forward to 2019 because they didn't technically sign an NLI? Which is exactly how I have seen a blue shirt defined. Which leaves us with 22 spots in '19 unless we do the same thing again. And hope to get lucky that a guy like Kennedy is available. Which normally you can't find those type of players available that late so the idea that you can just keep borrowing against next years class is misleading because it still limits the amount of highly recruited guys you can sign.
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It's not the same thing. Blueshirts enroll for the fall semester and join the team after the first day of fall practice. Summer sessions are part of the 2018 academic calendar; fall session is the start of the 2019 academic calendar. So players who enroll in summer and join the team in summer can't blueshirt or grayshirt. Their enrollment and scholarships aren't deferred. They are midyear enrollees.

The NCAA didn't amend the midyear replacement rule. Normally, initial counters count against the 25 limit in the academic year in which they enroll. Under the midyear replacement rule, midyear enrollees can count against the initial limit (25) either in the academic year they enroll OR in the following academic year-- as long as there is room in the 85. So our 2018 summer enrollees can join the team in 2018 and forward-count to 2019, which is how it worked out once we hit the 25 limit for 2018.

It's actually more complicated than this, and stipulations apply, but this is the gist. And yes, we can do it again next year as long as we have space and meet the stipulations.
 
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#599
#599
Sleegro said:
Right, so they enrolled in summer and are playing in fall but are counted forward to 2019 because they didn't technically sign an NLI? Which is exactly how I have seen a blue shirt defined. Which leaves us with 22 spots in '19 unless we do the same thing again. And hope to get lucky that a guy like Kennedy is available. Which normally you can't find those type of players available that late so the idea that you can just keep borrowing against next years class is misleading because it still limits the amount of highly recruited guys you can sign.
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Even though a transfer doesn't sign an NLI, they do sign a scholarship agreement. Therefore, if they get an initial fall scholarship, they do count toward that current academic year's 25 signings limit. A player who receives his initial scholarship for the 2nd or 3rd term is counted toward the current academic year's 25 limit if there's an unused signing spot; otherwise he may counted toward the next academic year's 25 signings limit. The signings limit prevails over what can be done in counting players against the next year's initial counter limits. A player cannot get an initial fall scholarship unless there's room to count him toward the current academic year's 25 signings limit.
 
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#600
#600
LA Vol said:
The NCAA closed the non-qualifier loophole, so under the amended rules, if a player signs, he counts. Lawless signed an LOI, so he's an initial counter for 2018 and counts against the 25, but not against the 85 because he was never enrolled and put on scholarship.
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That's really one that should be changed, but do get the being held accountable for academics. Going to get to where you don't let recruits who are borderline on qualifying sign a NLI. Tell them there's one available up to a certain time then pull it. It makes it harder knowing where they stand for sure academically with the early signing period. Can't take many chances anymore in recruiting.
 
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