Game Thread Lady Vols at LSU

[PointGuard]

We don't need any more game threads. Just repost this thread and read it Save all that typing. This thread contains everything that needs to be improved with this team

See Amber's post on Nared's Freshman and Senior stats. That is the result of poor coaching. That and painful games to watch

 

[leejoek]

It is obvious that Nared started the year better than she has ever been and regressed to her old self about the time SEC play began. The freshmen were not playing like freshman for the first part of the season and now have started being more like freshmen as the season has progressed.
The two stats as to why were losing now are offensive rebounding causing a lot of second chance points for the other team as well as an addition 10 to 15 shots at the basket per game. You can't give up 23 offensive rebounds and expect to win and have a deficit of 10 to 20 shots per game and expect to win. Until we fix those stats we are beatable by anyone.

Of those remaining SEC foes on the schedule, is there a team that cannot beat us?

 

[leejoek]

It is obvious that Nared started the year better than she has ever been and regressed to her old self about the time SEC play began. The freshmen were not playing like freshman for the first part of the season and now have started being more like freshmen as the season has progressed.
The two stats as to why were losing now are offensive rebounding causing a lot of second chance points for the other team as well as an addition 10 to 15 shots at the basket per game. You can't give up 23 offensive rebounds and expect to win and have a deficit of 10 to 20 shots per game and expect to win. Until we fix those stats we are beatable by anyone.

Early in the season, a commentator had said that the freshmen are good till the Holly factor kicked in.

 

[Amb3096]

Of those remaining SEC foes on the schedule, is there a team that cannot beat us?

TAMU, SC, UGA and Mizzou are the most difficult games on the schedule. They could easily go 0-4 in this stretch.

Alabama and Florida are the teams they should win, but could easily find a way to lose.

Arkansas and Vandy are the cellar dwellars who have no business being competitive with Tennessee. If they lose either of these games, then the Holly Supporters will have their work cut out for them trying to figure out which player(s) to blame.

 

[Decker Moss]

Early in the season, a commentator had said that the freshmen are good till the Holly factor kicked in.

While I might agree with the thought, I find it hard to believe someone would come right out and say it on national tv. Who was it?

 

[Amb3096]

Early in the season, a commentator had said that the freshmen are good till the Holly factor kicked in.

Early in the season, the freshmen were good because they were feasting on cupcakes. As the schedule toughened up, their performances dropped.

That plus the Holly Factor.

 

[LadyVol1908]

Early in the season, a commentator had said that the freshmen are good till the Holly factor kicked in.

Lies!

 

[madtownvol]

As expected, this loss has unleashed the flood of it is all Holly's fault!

In this game, LSU did not win because of some more clever offensive or defensive scheme or brilliant coaching adjustments. In fact, they played pretty poorly for the most part except on one dimension-- second and third and fourth chance points. They out hustled and out worked the LVs. Those rebounding and second chance point stats are very disappointing and that shortfall does reflect on the coach but it also falls on the players.

What happened? Scouting reports. What you say, the outcomes of LV games might have something to do with other teams actions?!!! Yes, this is not a video game but an actual game between two teams. And you know, what teams have figured out- you can beat the LVs by crowding the paint (that is an old story) and getting really physical with them. The LVs a have become a finesse team . As Holly noted, MR got hacked and fouled all game long and that has been true all season. Nared and Westbrook have been getting mauled. The hacking is so extensive that refs just let most of it go as new kind of "normal." I think the banging and hacking is really getting in LV's heads and its effecting their overall effort, which is where they lost the game. On the other side, the LVs have not been physical enough and their boxing out against LSU was ATROCIOUS!

I think this team has embraced a kind of "show time" identity- fast breaks, highlight reel passes and so on. Now they need to get some grit. It is on Holly and staff to make those adjustments.

In the Candace Parker era (and Candace become a pretty physical player in her own right), Niki Anosike and Lex Hornbuckle brought the physicality.

Nared and MR are finesse players and I don't see them suddenly becoming bangers this season. But, Green and KK look like they are capable of playing tough and Meme has all the tools to be the hard-nosed Alex Hornbuckle guard.

And my post is not directed to the people who want to yell FAHR Holly at the top of their lungs endlessly. It is for those who would like to consider what options the LVs have for getting back to winning basketball in the near term and making a tournament run.

 

[Amb3096]

But it is coaching. The LVs opted to play zone defense, which requires more attention to finding a body to box out for rebounds. The fact that LSU exploited the LVs lack of communication for 40 minutes is 100% on the coaches for failing to properly teach them how to rebound out of a zone and not making corrections when it was clear they were struggling.

LSU played poorly because they are not a good team, yet they still won. What does it say about Tennessee...besides "IT'S DIAMOND'S FAULT!!!!"

Different players, same problems. It's not the players, it's the system.

 

[Volfan2012]

All I saw is the one constant in this equation is Holly. The players change through the years but she remains the same. If these players need to get some toughness or learn how to box out which they should already be experts doing, then up to Holly and staff to make it happen.
It shouldn't take the rest of the season they should be ready to give a better effort on the boards and equaling up the shots the very next game.
If were going to be able to keep a roster of seven or more High School Americans we must be able to beat the three star LSU Tigers.
I can understand losing to comparable teams like Notre Dame on the road or even Miss St that has a brilliant coach that has taken one All American and made a masterful program.
The home court advantage the first two games of the NCAA tourney is rapidly vanishing. Holly needs a fix and since she has seldom had a fix in the past don't know if she can do it now. All I know is we must at least win the home games. We've already lost one to Miss St have to take the rest or we'll have some terrible seed in the tourney playing on someone else's court.

 

[Rixxx]

I don't get to watch TN hardly at all. Could someone please tell me, if any, influence Coach Gordon has during games. At the beginning of the season, she seemed to be the ace in the hole. Thx....

 

[Benionsopinion]

As expected, this loss has unleashed the flood of it is all Holly's fault!

In this game, LSU did not win because of some more clever offensive or defensive scheme or brilliant coaching adjustments. In fact, they played pretty poorly for the most part except on one dimension-- second and third and fourth chance points. They out hustled and out worked the LVs. Those rebounding and second chance point stats are very disappointing and that shortfall does reflect on the coach but it also falls on the players.

What happened? Scouting reports. What you say, the outcomes of LV games might have something to do with other teams actions?!!! Yes, this is not a video game but an actual game between two teams. And you know, what teams have figured out- you can beat the LVs by crowding the paint (that is an old story) and getting really physical with them. The LVs a have become a finesse team . As Holly noted, MR got hacked and fouled all game long and that has been true all season. Nared and Westbrook have been getting mauled. The hacking is so extensive that refs just let most of it go as new kind of "normal." I think the banging and hacking is really getting in LV's heads and its effecting their overall effort, which is where they lost the game. On the other side, the LVs have not been physical enough and their boxing out against LSU was ATROCIOUS!

I think this team has embraced a kind of "show time" identity- fast breaks, highlight reel passes and so on. Now they need to get some grit. It is on Holly and staff to make those adjustments.

In the Candace Parker era (and Candace become a pretty physical player in her own right), Niki Anosike and Lex Hornbuckle brought the physicality.

Nared and MR are finesse players and I don't see them suddenly becoming bangers this season. But, Green and KK look like they are capable of playing tough and Meme has all the tools to be the hard-nosed Alex Hornbuckle guard.

And my post is not directed to the people who want to yell FAHR Holly at the top of their lungs endlessly. It is for those who would like to consider what options the LVs have for getting back to winning basketball in the near term and making a tournament run.

Madtown,I agree with you about MR and JN being finesse players. Also think that has rubbed off on the freshmen and CG. Basketball used to be a finesse game,but has become more physical. Lady Vol coaches have not instilled that competitive physical edge and the players have tried to become finesse type players. When the Lady Vols meet a physical,knock down,drag out team,they are at an immediate disadvantage. Add to that the fact that officials let most hacks and holds go uncalled,finesse becomes a bigger liability. Lady Vol coaches have been remiss in not getting the team prepared for more physical play. It's time to get more physical players like Cheridene and Kasi into games quicker. The seemingly best way to compete against physical teams is to be just as physical as they are. Our coaches need to teach a level of physicality,and that begins with Holly. Maybe delegate that duty to BG since she was the epitome of a physical player. A change in team philosophy is needed before our freshman class is completely affected by the finesse malaise. That said,I would like to hear Coach Jumper's and other coach's thoughts on this. And as always---- Go Lady Vols!!

 

[montbb47]

I would just like to have Holly asked a question in a post game presser: What was the offensive game plan for this opponent? And the follow up: Was it executed? and the follow up: At what point in the game did you make adjustments and what were they? Wanna expose an incompetent coach? Ask an intelligent question!

 

[LA Vol]

The coaching isn't going to change this year. It is what it is. If the ladies want to win and finish strong, they're going to have to come together and change what they can control. They're going to have to toughen up, rebound, stop the TOs, play physical and not let up. Otherwise, scrappier teams with more attitude and less talent are going to continue to outhustle them and the losses will mount quickly. The Aggies will bring it, and that's a win the LVs have to have.

 

[Sportslady]

What I don’t understand is when you hear the ladies speak about their performance(s), they mention need for toughness, rebounding, communications, etc. They know it, but no one, including coaches hold themselves accountable.

 

[djtee]

Early in the season, the freshmen were good because they were feasting on cupcakes. As the schedule toughened up, their performances dropped.

That plus the Holly Factor.

Thank You !

 

[leejoek]

Madtown,I agree with you about MR and JN being finesse players. Also think that has rubbed off on the freshmen and CG. Basketball used to be a finesse game,but has become more physical. Lady Vol coaches have not instilled that competitive physical edge and the players have tried to become finesse type players. When the Lady Vols meet a physical,knock down,drag out team,they are at an immediate disadvantage. Add to that the fact that officials let most hacks and holds go uncalled,finesse becomes a bigger liability. Lady Vol coaches have been remiss in not getting the team prepared for more physical play. It's time to get more physical players like Cheridene and Kasi into games quicker. The seemingly best way to compete against physical teams is to be just as physical as they are. Our coaches need to teach a level of physicality,and that begins with Holly. Maybe delegate that duty to BG since she was the epitome of a physical player. A change in team philosophy is needed before our freshman class is completely affected by the finesse malaise. That said,I would like to hear Coach Jumper's and other coach's thoughts on this. And as always---- Go Lady Vols!!

Who has been teaching them? Do LADY VOLS know how to box out?

 

[teacherdean]

Just watched the game. About what one would have expected after the last two seasons. They look exactly the same as they did last year, except that Evina Westbrook is light years better as a player compared to Jordan. Otherwise, same discombobulated look on offense and inability to stop opposing guards from driving the lane. Jackson and Moncrief were able to get to the rim or get open for midrange jumpers just about whenever they felt like. If not for their sad performance at the FT line, this would have been a beatdown. But LSU had no business staying with them. Not sure how the "Holly Can Do No Wrong" crowd defends this one. They don't have Diamond or Te'a around to blame for this one, although I have seen the cries of wishing for the graduation of Nared and Russell. I can't help but wonder who’re next year's scapegoats will be? My guess is Davis and Green...

We have seen this same let down for the last five years, when will we get real and realize it is not all on the players? Nearly every year we are excited about this player and that player and the potential of the team to only end up with our hopes dashed into the abyss. Bad history repeats itself when you have the same old leadership doing the same old thing. The real scapegoat has to be the head of the snake. I really think we need fresh blood with a total different perspective. I think Holly has taken us as far as she can.

 

[madtownvol]

Who has been teaching them? Do LADY VOLS know how to box out?

It is not that this has been a systematic problem. The Lvs have been doing pretty well in controlling the boards this season. But LSU saw something in their set-up that they exploited as well as just bringing a lot more energy and physicality (which I think is the biggest factor).

I counted at least 10 rebounds where a LV had the ball in her hands and it got slapped out by an LSU player and they got the board. I am guessing many of those were uncalled fouls but the LVs needed to adjust.

On many possessions, the LVs played great defense but when your opponent gets 2 or 3 additional possession via offensive boards, they will find ways to score.

In the 2nd half, it looked the like the LVs went into a shell. I am not shocked to see freshman get intimidated but the team needed MR and Nared to take charge but I think they were derailed by LSU's physicality.

I concur that the coaching staff is at fault here but this team also has an Achilles heel with physicality and a big test is whether they can adapt to this style of play, which their SEC competitors will continue to adopt.

 

[lvocd]

I concur that the coaching staff is at fault here but this team also has an Achilles heel with physicality and a big test is whether they can adapt to this style of play, which their SEC competitors will continue to adopt.

You know, I sometimes wonder if the players are a little afraid to be too scrappy given the program's recent history with season-ending head injuries. Maybe they're afraid to get scrappy and start diving for loose balls and such because they don't want to risk bonking heads with someone else! :cray: Remember how scrappy Jasmine Jones was, faithfully diving after loose balls, always hustling? I cost her her LV career. Just thinking out loud here. Maybe the players have heard too many scary stories about what happens to players who go that hard.

 

[SandyO]

As a person, I believe she has a good heart, however, having a good heart does not equate to being a good coach. As a person she does not suck, however, her coaching many time seem very enept. Saying you don’t know why your players are doing this or doing that is not how a good coach projects themselves as the leader of their program. Can’t believe that we have players that do not take instructions well. I believe that they all want to win, they just need leadership to get them there.

Agree! Holly is nice to a fault. As a person, I bet she’s loyal and kind. But for whatever reason, as a coach, she’s not getting it done. I don’t think she’s got it in her to get it done. I appreciate her love for the university and the program but unfortunately when it comes to winning, nice guys finish last. I think she’s too worried about players’ feelings. The good coaches don’t care whose feelings they hurt

 

[teacherdean]

You know, I sometimes wonder if the players are a little afraid to be too scrappy given the program's recent history with season-ending head injuries. Maybe they're afraid to get scrappy and start diving for loose balls and such because they don't want to risk bonking heads with someone else! :cray: Remember how scrappy Jasmine Jones was, faithfully diving after loose balls, always hustling? I cost her her LV career. Just thinking out loud here. Maybe the players have heard too many scary stories about what happens to players who go that hard.[/QUOT

The problem is if players are scared of being hurt they do not need to be on the floor. Other teams have had the same health issues as the Lady Vols but still play scrappy. If our team plays in fear, they will never be a top 5 team. The best player we have is Russell, she is as soft as a marshmallow. She simply lacks aggression and dominance on both ends of the court. I have seen her hustle down the court, however, rarely. From what I understand she was dominant during the world games, the question is what happens when she plays for Holly? Davis, Hayes, Nared and Jackson play very aggressive, but what we lack is that one dominate player that dominates on both ends of the court. Every great team has that one player that can take over a game on both ends of the court, who is that player for the Lady Vols? I do not mean some of the time but consistently.

 

[the_great_pumpkin]

How can anyone keep defending this garbage year after year? We don't have a head coach that develops talent each year, motivates players, teaches basic basketball fundamentals, makes in game adjustments, uses time outs wisely, uses the end of quarter time wisely, and I'm sure I'm leaving plenty out. I am OVER this coach like NOW. Coach Fulmer please can her ASAP and hire a coach that CAN and WILL address these issues that are plaguing this program year after year. Can you imagine where we would be if we just had normal talent ? What would our record be ? Flame away all you pro head scratchers. I'm done now.

 

[mike099]

I don't get to watch TN hardly at all. Could someone please tell me, if any, influence Coach Gordon has during games. At the beginning of the season, she seemed to be the ace in the hole. Thx....

I too would be interested to know how much input the assistants have in games. Between Holly and Dean that is a lot of years under one of the best teachers.

If Holly is not going to be tough in games let one of the assistants do it. You know it has to bother Gordon, especially the defense and the offensive rebounds.

 

[Orange Maniac]

I've seen Gordon light some players up this year. The players have hinted that Holly has a half time some. Without being there, we will never know.