Game Thread: Lady Vols v EKU; Sunday 2PM, Home, SECN+ (Final LV'z 72-63)

[VolBall09]

You can not dismiss not having a healthy TK. Healthy she is a game changer. Ostensibly we are down our top two players.

We have 6’5” Jillian Hollingshed and 6’3” Karoline who is strong as an ox and can shoot the 3. We are not without TK. We are getting from her what she can give and she did make a difference defensively when she was in the game.

The coaching staff were obviously aware it was going to be a slow go getting her back in the swing of things so there is no good excuse for the other bigs to not have been better prepared.

This staff has also missed on every quality post with size they have recruited out of high school. Ooldacre, Muhammad, Thomas, Del Rosario and the list goes on. It’s a cumulative effect from poor leadership. That’s my position and I’m sticking to it.

 

[glv98]

Yes we are down are best player

Oh yeah, well that. Not just our best player, one of the best in the country.

You can not dismiss not having a healthy TK. Healthy she is a game changer. Ostensibly we are down our top two players.

The two that have the most impact on the roster, bc we're so thin at post.

Of course its the fault of crappy recruiting that our remaining roster is what it is and not able to overcome the losses like other teams. Of course we all thought the portal pieces would help more sooner. So we're all disappointed. I sure am. But I stay hopeful for the rest of the season, even against all available evidence. Then we'll see what happens.

 

[VolBall09]

Oh yeah, well that. Not just our best player, one of the best in the country.

The two that have the most impact on the roster, bc we're so thin at post.

Of course its the fault of crappy recruiting that our remaining roster is what it is and not able to overcome the losses like other teams. Of course we all thought the portal pieces would help more sooner. So we're all disappointed. I sure am. But I stay hopeful for the rest of the season, even against all available evidence. Then we'll see what happens.

And I respect that position but you can’t deny it’s a poor product to watch. One can still support the program and the players without supporting the staff. I’ll always be a Lady Vol fan thanks to Pat. I’m done with the Harpers though. Just like when Holly lost to Vanderbilt at home. That was the nail in the coffin.

That MTSU game got the nail out of the bag. Another bad loss, especially at home, and it’s getting hammered in.

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

Coaching.

Those players were put in roles and situations where they could be successful at other schools. Our staff are grossly mismanaging this roster. They are so concerned with the players doing it “their way” that the young women are over thinking EVERYTHING.

At some point you just have to let them get out there and play ball. They are so in their ear about every little thing they are constantly THINKING about playing basketball instead of actually PLAYING basketball. Above all else it should be fun and they all look like their puppy just died when they’re out there.

And if I hear the word poise one more time I’m gonna lose it. We don’t need poise. We need to play basketball with PASSION.

Agreed on this 100%.

Harper has no one on the staff to hold her accountable or pull her out of her own bad habits or tunnel vision. The nepotism factor is huge - her most trusted assistant is her husband. Go figure.

Assistants have a huge role to play on a team. They provide a nice balance to a coach and fill in gaps that are evident. They allow a coach to see the entirety of a team, while letting them do more one on one coaching. I just don’t see that happening with this staff. Little correction, little development, and can’t see a lot of fun from these players. In fact, they kind of look miserable. Not sure where to put the blame for that, but it’s not a good situation to be in for any team.

 

[glv98]

Harper has no one on the staff to hold her accountable or pull her out of her own bad habits or tunnel vision

Source?

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

Source?

Just simply an observation and opinion.

 

[Coach Jumper]

When you have a player, (TK), who is coming off an extended lapse, you have to adjust your game to use them wisely.

Boston Celtics used to frustrate LA Showtime Lakers (Who were known for their fastbreak finishes) with the slow-down game...McHale and Parish were no speedsters and Larry Legend wasn't exactly a swifty either,,,so they designed their bring-downs to use the posts as center-mid-court passers bc being so tall they could easily receive and give very high passes and once on their frontcourt, they would design play to use their height.

We don't/didn't do this for when TK comes in and we should.

 

[Coach Jumper]

And I respect that position but you can’t deny it’s a poor product to watch. One can still support the program and the players without supporting the staff. I’ll always be a Lady Vol fan thanks to Pat. I’m done with the Harpers though. Just like when Holly lost to Vanderbilt at home. That was the nail in the coffin.

That MTSU game got the nail out of the bag. Another bad loss, especially at home, and it’s getting hammered in.

the underlined is very true.

I have said it and I stand by it, in my "support meter" the orders is:
Org #1
Players #2
Coaching #3

And that order will only be changed when I see the coaches growing in the game as a unit more so than the players as a unit, or individually. Or if I see the players "visibly" shutting down and not giving their all every game and the coaches not being the reason....Putting in an easy way to understand...if I see players failing the coaches v coaches failing the players

And right now I see it as, the coaches making the same in-game errors,,lack of individual development,,, and the players reacting to this.

 

[madtownvol]

Bad shooting can (usually) be fixed as long as theyre good shots. I thought they moved the ball way better than usual and had very good shots, just didn't hit them. Also thought they kept their poise much better, a few bonehead tos not withstanding.

The rest I agree with. You have to be willingly blindfolded not to see even tho we get portal players, integrating them seems to be a really hard process. And regression happens during the process. I still think both Spear and Wells will be ok, and Spear started to break out yesterday.

Good take that the problem could be KJH's highly analytical nature. She's known to love stats.

100%. ON the flipside, Spears and Darby actually did make some clutch shots when desperately needed.

A plus is Spears 2nd half.


We all do tend to underestimate the transition needed for this portal players. Last season, many wrote Powell off as a bust but she looks like an entirely different player this season (and all really down the stretch of last season).

We can only hope that Spears and Wells move along the transition curve a little faster.

 

[SGMVols]

There will be well over 10k for those games.

If so it’s because 5,000 Gamecocks showed up

 

[Volfan2012]

Bad shooting can (usually) be fixed as long as theyre good shots. I thought they moved the ball way better than usual and had very good shots, just didn't hit them. Also thought they kept their poise much better, a few bonehead tos not withstanding.

The rest I agree with. You have to be willingly blindfolded not to see even tho we get portal players, integrating them seems to be a really hard process. And regression happens during the process. I still think both Spear and Wells will be ok, and Spear started to break out yesterday.

Good take that the problem could be KJH's highly analytical nature. She's known to love stats.

Well we know the turnovers are part of the system. 22 yesterday basically a lot of bad decisions and players not able to catch a pass right in their hands. I looked at the roster before the season began and here is what I thought. This will be the best three point shooting team Tennessee's put on the floor in years. We will hit almost 80 percent of our free throws and we'll be around 10 turnovers a game. Guess I don't need to try and analyze a roster again. We have done nothing I thought we'd do and we'll lose a lot of games going forward if it doesn't change.

 

[Coach Jumper]

100%. ON the flipside, Spears and Darby actually did make some clutch shots when desperately needed.

A plus is Spears 2nd half.


We all do tend to underestimate the transition needed for this portal players. Last season, many wrote Powell off as a bust but she looks like an entirely different player this season (and all really down the stretch of last season).

We can only hope that Spears and Wells move along the transition curve a little faster.

agree those two had decent and timely shots/scores
But I have Mendoza lines for nearly every phase of the game.
And my Minimum for a "designated gunner is 4-6 shots per game and 2 for 6 for those shots.
Darby would be my gunner. She is not my designated scorer, like Spears would be...Tess
would be my long-range sniper.
And her stats per game are not up to MY mendoza line

And I'm not zeroing in on her or picking on her,,,I am calling it by the position, not by player

 

[Coach Jumper]

Well we know the turnovers are part of the system. 22 yesterday basically a lot of bad decisions and players not able to catch a pass right in their hands. I looked at the roster before the season began and here is what I thought. This will be the best three point shooting team Tennessee's put on the floor in years. We will hit almost 80 percent of our free throws and we'll be around 10 turnovers a game. Guess I don't need to try and analyze a roster again. We have done nothing I thought we'd do and we'll lose a lot of games going forward if it doesn't change.

I will be doing a turnover report on this game later tonight
Forced-unforced-bad call are the three categories..it will be very telling, as it usually is

 

[dillyo51]

Certainly not looking like a tournament team without Jackson. I think we still are one if she gets back soon.

I don’t think RJ plays again this season.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I don’t think RJ plays again this season.

that statement is = to carrying water in a strainer

 

[cwbytruckers]

There’s no great team in the SEC this season.
With Rickea J back there’s a chance for Tennessee to beat any team in the SEC.

The flaws in this team are systematic issues. I’m watching Utah without a single athlete on their team outside of the Forward get anywhere on the court against SC that they want to. Utah is noticeably undersized also.

What are you drinking? No way in H E double hockey sticks we beat SC or LSU.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Lowest ranking ever?
is it our lowest ever?

 

[pasadenavol]

What I find entertaining about this message board is that it sounds exactly like the football forums for the 12 years from Kiffin through Pruitt. Seems the fan base is almost as divided as Republicans and Democrats. You have the 'negavols' vs the 'sunshine pumpers'.
With Heupel here, there's been quite a bit more unity in the football forum, more optimism, especially after last year's 11-2 campaign. We are 11 years into the Holly and Kellie years, one short of the football fiasco. Hopefully, our desert is coming to an end soon as well. Time will tell...

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

Go attend a practice...or actually watch the sidelines during the game. Joy, Sam & Jon are very active coaching the players during both.

Agreed on this 100%.

Harper has no one on the staff to hold her accountable or pull her out of her own bad habits or tunnel vision. The nepotism factor is huge - her most trusted assistant is her husband. Go figure.

Assistants have a huge role to play on a team. They provide a nice balance to a coach and fill in gaps that are evident. They allow a coach to see the entirety of a team, while letting them do more one on one coaching. I just don’t see that happening with this staff. Little correction, little development, and can’t see a lot of fun from these players. In fact, they kind of look miserable. Not sure where to put the blame for that, but it’s not a good situation to be in for any team.

Just simply an observation and opinion.

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

Go attend a practice...or actually watch the sidelines during the game. Joy, Sam & Jon are very active coaching the players during both.

That’s good, because I haven’t attended a practice since I was a student back in 98-02. So I can’t speak to that aspect.

My opinion is based on games. It’s not that they aren’t communicating, just watching the body language. Plus, there isn’t a lot of progress refining some of the issues. Obviously I don’t know the content of what they are saying, just basing what I’m seeing on results on the court.

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

With that as your standard, you should have bailed on Pat when we lost to Ball State in the NCAA first round in 2009.

And I respect that position but you can’t deny it’s a poor product to watch. One can still support the program and the players without supporting the staff. I’ll always be a Lady Vol fan thanks to Pat. I’m done with the Harpers though. Just like when Holly lost to Vanderbilt at home. That was the nail in the coffin.

That MTSU game got the nail out of the bag. Another bad loss, especially at home, and it’s getting hammered in.

 

[mudcat1973]

I think Edia might get some time today.

No hard feelings

I think Edia might get some time today.

No hard feelings @Coach Jumper But was @Ladyvol777 prediction But if you combined post ## 35 43 I was predicted the bench would finished the game.

 

[Harpethriverkid63]

Source?

Troy, Memphis, EKU, MTSU….

 

[madtownvol]

Well we know the turnovers are part of the system. 22 yesterday basically a lot of bad decisions and players not able to catch a pass right in their hands. I looked at the roster before the season began and here is what I thought. This will be the best three point shooting team Tennessee's put on the floor in years. We will hit almost 80 percent of our free throws and we'll be around 10 turnovers a game. Guess I don't need to try and analyze a roster again. We have done nothing I thought we'd do and we'll lose a lot of games going forward if it doesn't change.

I thought Kellie addressed the TOs pretty well in her post-game (EKU) presser -- first by noting that they only had 11 TOs against MTSU and lost. I didn't see that game but I take it to mean that the LVs were not playing aggressively and trying to push pace.

So, TOs can be a misleading stat. The team can be flying and playing well and have double digit TOs just because mistakes will happen in an up tempo.

Against EKU, Powell (I think) hit Hollingshead in transition but Jillian fumbled the ball out bounds. Better to have completed the play but worse to have not made the attempt. You live with those TOs.

Wells losing the ball when the team was holding for the last possession of the half (and EKU) scoring or Puckett making a terrible inbound pass that leads to a TO (and bucket for EKU) are the killers.

I agree with Kellie's assessment that about half of those TOs were bad ones but the other 10 or so, almost cost them the game. Unlike past years, there is not a real systemic nature to these bad TOs. In previous season, most came from trying to force the ball into a double or triple teamed post player.

This season the bad TOs seem to come from random players making bad decisions, Wells over dribbling, Puckett and others not anticipating a defender breaking on the ball, Powell passing when she should have shot.

Right now, the team looks most solid with Powell at PG. She is pretty good a dribbling past pressure and getting into the offense.

But, Rickea can't get back soon enough...

 

[Volfan2012]

I thought Kellie addressed the TOs pretty well in her post-game (EKU) presser -- first by noting that they only had 11 TOs against MTSU and lost. I didn't see that game but I take it to mean that the LVs were not playing aggressively and trying to push pace.

So, TOs can be a misleading stat. The team can be flying and playing well and have double digit TOs just because mistakes will happen in an up tempo.

Against EKU, Powell (I think) hit Hollingshead in transition but Jillian fumbled the ball out bounds. Better to have completed the play but worse to have not made the attempt. You live with those TOs.

Wells losing the ball when the team was holding for the last possession of the half (and EKU) scoring or Puckett making a terrible inbound pass that leads to a TO (and bucket for EKU) are the killers.

I agree with Kellie's assessment that about half of those TOs were bad ones but the other 10 or so, almost cost them the game. Unlike past years, there is not a real systemic nature to these bad TOs. In previous season, most came from trying to force the ball into a double or triple teamed post player.

This season the bad TOs seem to come from random players making bad decisions, Wells over dribbling, Puckett and others not anticipating a defender breaking on the ball, Powell passing when she should have shot.

Right now, the team looks most solid with Powell at PG. She is pretty good a dribbling past pressure and getting into the offense.

But, Rickea can't get back soon enough...

Turnovers are not the only stat in the equation that determine winning or losing, but they can get you in trouble and have in two or three games this season. They only matter when they give one team a huge advantage in possessions and well we somehow manage to lose the possession battle in almost every game we play. In the Middle Tennessee game for once this season they ended up with what would be recorded as 67 possessions to our 62. They win because they won the shooting battle 47 percent to 41 percent. Games always come down to three stats to determine basketball possessions offensive rebounds, steals, and turnovers. You can add those three totals up and tell who won the game a huge percentage of the time. When those three stats are even then shooting percentage is the determining factor. So when I complain about rebounding and turnovers I am talking about possessions lost if it is determined that the other team had far less. The E Ky game we had 73 possessions to score and they had 74. We had 22 turnovers and they had 18. The offensive rebounds we led by one and they had one more steal. So that game came down to shooting and we won 40 percent to 36 percent.

So when I talk about turnovers I guess I should be more specific as it all comes down to possessions. I was hoping this team would win those possession stats this season and they may start doing that when Rickea returns. Right now were averaging 74 points a game and the opponents 72 so the possessions stats really come into play when the margin of points scored to points given up are that close. The real killer is that the turnovers are not improving they are the same every year she coaches in the 17 to 18 range while opponents go for around 13. In the majority of games we always give up more basketball possessions than we get. No argument that you can lose the amount of possessions and still win depending on the shooting percentages of the game. Still the chance of losing is much higher when the other team manages a possession advantage because it then depends on you having to shoot the ball a lot better then they do. The top coaches know this and know that to win consistently they have to win the possessions. Your might not have a great shooting game, but if you out possession the other team by 10 or 15 your chances to win still are great.