Game Thread: MTSU v Lady Vols, Tues. Nov 12th; Home-FCC; 6:30PM; SEC+ network: win 89-75

[glv98]

Anyone telling you that doesn't know what they are talking about. The plan isn't just to chuck anything up.

Again, we get told this many times a day, as below:

You need to readjust the scope. It has changed, windage is still important but this style favors automatic shots, the more the better, windage be damned. Think auto shot vs reload version. Volume over precision. That is this style and it may well be the answer.

Volume over precision, quantity over quality.

I would bet money that within the next 25 years, a team will win a power conference championship running this scheme, men's or women's basketball.

25 yrs!! Jeeze, I was hoping for more, like within my lifetime. But if that is the case, it explains why other coaches don't use this system.

 

[glv98]

But what I had heard on the S&C end, and now what I'm seeing on the court conditioning-wise... I'm concerned about it

Coach seemed very irritated in the pressor that they had to pull back the hard press due to players getting tired. I'm sure the issue will be addressed.

Seems to me that this team has more scoring threats than in recent years

Definitely do, but so far none are consistent. But it's early, there's every reason to think that will happen.

 

[Volfan2012]

One thing about this game is we saw the most trusted and players that are playing the best get closer to the 30 minute mark in playing time in this game. Fouls probably kept a couple of players from getting more than they did. Were going to see eight players get most of the minutes and three more will get around 7 as the season progresses. Team has a lot of upside not even close to playing as well as they can especially on defense. A lot to learn in this type system and I expect we'll see good games and bad games all the way until January. Hopefully we win most of them.

 

[glv98]

One thing about this game is we saw the most trusted and players that are playing the best get closer to the 30 minute mark in playing time in this game. Fouls probably kept a couple of players from getting more than they did. Were going to see eight players get most of the minutes and three more will get around 7 as the season progresses. Team has a lot of upside not even close to playing as well as they can especially on defense. A lot to learn in this type system and I expect we'll see good games and bad games all the way until January. Hopefully we win most of them.

Def will see the rotation and subbing settle down more towards "normal". Actually, IMO everything will as we approach SEC season.

 

[PineyBluff Vo]

When I hear that phrase I think of a funnel. Tin horn? Funnel?

Britannica Dictionary definition of TINHORN. [count] US, informal + disapproving. : a person who talks and acts like someone who is strong and powerful but who is really weak, unimportant, etc. — usually used before another noun. a tinhorn dictator/tyrant.

 

[Volfan2012]

Don't know if this is actually good news but Massey evidently thinks a lot of Tennessee as were ranked number 11 this morning after the MTSU win on their site. Saw where Louisville beat UT Martin by 24 so that makes me think a little more highly of UT Martin as a team this season. Makes our 40 point drubbing of them a little more impressive as well.

 

[KTrain]

So if you agree with that then you must agree that our press was not that effective tonight, correct?

MTSU TOs= 22
UT TOs = 14

If UT pressed the whole game and MTSU pressed almost never, typically you would expect to see more than a +8 differential in TO margin.

What CKC is expecting is something closer to Nolan Richardson's 40 minutes of hell. Total chaos driven by pressure that forces the opponent to break down and lead to easy transition points. It can be very exciting if executed well. We are a work in progress and that's OK at this point in the season.

It can be ineffective but still have its positive points that showed up as MTSU shot below % on Free Throws where tired legs often show up there and 3 point shooting %. I just prefer to look on the positive side where others have a negative spin on assessment. that's OK. That's what makes these threads interesting.

 

[knoxvol52]

One thing about this game is we saw the most trusted and players that are playing the best get closer to the 30 minute mark in playing time in this game. Fouls probably kept a couple of players from getting more than they did. Were going to see eight players get most of the minutes and three more will get around 7 as the season progresses. Team has a lot of upside not even close to playing as well as they can especially on defense. A lot to learn in this type system and I expect we'll see good games and bad games all the way until January. Hopefully we win most of them.

Of course, CKC is going to play her best 5 players at crunch time.

 

[Volfan2012]

We shot 41 percent and scored 89 points on 73 shot attempts. 1.22 per attempt which is good. MTSU 75 points on 51 shot attempts 1.47 per attempt which is awesome. I'll take our plus 22 shots and 41 percent anytime we play. If we'd shot the percentage they did last night the score would've been 111 to 75 so even though we shot much lower percentage we controlled the game winning the turnovers and rebounds.

 

[Volfan2012]

Of course, CKC is going to play her best 5 players at crunch time.

They are going to be in the high 20 minute range in every competitive game. More rest in the less competitive games. Minutes are still up for grabs depends on the player to perform. We have players like Latham, and Hollingshead that could move up with better play when they get their chance.

 

[glv98]

we controlled the game winning the turnovers and rebounds.

Yep, the keys to the kingdom. Just have to be able to do that against the best teams.

 

[Volfan2012]

Yep, the keys to the kingdom. Just have to be able to do that against the best teams.

True will be times when that don't happen so we definitely need to get the offense going with a little better shot selection and like Kim said maybe try a layup or two.

 

[BruisedOrange]

SIAP

 

[glv98]

True will be times when that don't happen so we definitely need to get the offense going with a little better shot selection and like Kim said maybe try a layup or two.

And this is why she said it will take alot of time. Obviously early emphasis was learning the press on D and the chuck it up offense on O. Now they can incorporate a half court D and O into the picture. Would like to see results of that by the end of the non conf season.

 

[Chippo]

It’s just too fast for her it seems. And Jill, and Tess but she finally started hitting 3s.

Some players aren't geared to run and gun
Fast paced style of play in basketball or football.

 

[Chippo]

Some players aren't geared to run and gun
Fast paced style of play in basketball or football.

Always liked the defensive end in both sports.

 

[PRG]

One thing about this game is we saw the most trusted and players that are playing the best get closer to the 30 minute mark in playing time in this game. Fouls probably kept a couple of players from getting more than they did. Were going to see eight players get most of the minutes and three more will get around 7 as the season progresses. Team has a lot of upside not even close to playing as well as they can especially on defense. A lot to learn in this type system and I expect we'll see good games and bad games all the way until January. Hopefully we win most of them.

Ace did not play… nor Wells or little Darby!
She (coach) is getting the main players organized. Don’t mean these other players won’t see the floor any more …. Depends on the competition? JMO

 

[Volfan2012]

Ace did not play… nor Wells or little Darby!
She (coach) is getting the main players organized. Don’t mean these other players won’t see the floor any more …. Depends on the competition? JMO

They are only likely to play when the game is well in hand. Little Darby is injured don't know how long she is going to be out.

 

[37620VOL]

Every player on Lady Vols roster has more talent than any player Caldwell has ever coached. There is no reason for any of them to ride the pine.

This doesn't make any sense at all

 

[37620VOL]

Volume over precision, quantity over quality.

No one that knows what they're talking about is saying this. Yes, we want to get more shots up then our opponents by turning them over. But I guarantee you coach wants a good shot on every one of our possessions. However, she wants to take the first good shot that becomes available as opposed to trying to jack something up in the last 5 seconds of the shot clock like we've done for the last 10 years.

In this game, I thought all of our threes were good shots. Our percentage was really good and even included two half court shots that go down as misses. Several of our mid-range shots were not good shots. I think coach would like to see us taking threes and getting to the rim for layups. She would like to see less of the highly contested mid-range shots.

 

[RAVOL]

What? The whole planet knew about Nolan Richardson's 40 mins of hell 30 yrs ago. This isn't new or unknown. Just largely untried. I'm just curious why.

In my opinion 2 things. First Coaches have to be committed to extra coaching and study because it is added things to watch study and teach because core to any team will always be fundamentals of half court D and O mix in traps and how to break traps rebounding. With pressing it adds to time. Second most important is finding the Players who can compete for Championship that will commit to this rugged training and style. Most believe long term it want work. Just a thought to why other coaches want commit. In CHRIST Alone

 

[VolBall09]

Every player on Lady Vols roster has more talent than any player Caldwell has ever coached. There is no reason for any of them to ride the pine.

There is plenty of reason. It’s still basketball, those playing the best and giving the most effort will get the most minutes.

Players like Hollingshed, Ayodele, Strickland, and a couple others are going to have to step up and get with the program if they want to continue getting minutes.

Jill has a skillset that could be so useful but it’s clear this style of play is still way too fast for her. She’s a little frozen when she catches. She needs to let it fly, attack or make a pass. She has a beautiful shot, I’d like to see her start taking those open long jumpers and see if she can hit some and get her confidence up.

Puckett is one who could lose minutes as well. If she doesn’t get out of her head and out of her own way they are going to decrease. She’s too hard on herself and has an emotional response to every mistake. She missed a free throw last night and you’d have thought she lost a championship game. Really needs to work on personally checking herself and staying in the game mentally. Can’t always be her teammates and coaches pulling her up, gotta be her sometimes.

Her mental lapses lead to fouls and open layups for MTSU which resulted in only 16 minutes of game time. It’s pretty clear Kim loves her and her game but I have no doubt if it doesn’t start transferring better Kim is going to play someone else.

I hope she’s working with a sports psychologist. It’s patently clear her issue during games is primarily mental. Too much visible frustration over small things that leads to compounding errors that hurt the team, which in turn knocks her confidence even more. She seems to be a people pleaser, she needs to work on pleasing herself first for a bit.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

So we win by 14 against a team with a very experienced, good coach that beat us last year. A MTSU team that received top 25 votes and could very well end up being ranked.
We did that on a very stinky shooting night with a big negative foul ratio (I didn’t see the game so I can’t comment on the reasonableness of the foul disparity).
Not the revenge we were dreaming of but a solid early season win.
Based on the stats from the first three games Cooper is all that plus! Goodness, she can do it all! What an addition!

I’m not sure what a few folks may have dreamed of as revenge because the win last night by the Lady Vols is one of the most quality wins of the early season featuring two NCAA tourney teams.

In fact, I’ll go out on a limb and say that the Lady Vols win over MTSU by double digits is a better win than USC over Ole Miss and South Carolina over Michigan with the LVs winning by a wider margin. MTSU is as good as Michigan or Ole Miss.

I’m not sure any of the top SEC schools right now on a neutral court, home court, or the road would beat MTSU by a wider margin than 10-15 points.

This early in the season Coach Caldwell could not have asked for a better measuring stick game while still building her team and implementing a new system with so many new players.

The newcomers transitioning to this program are laying an incredible foundation for the future. And with her elite recruiting and returnees MTSU only got a taste of what is to come against this Coach Caldwell era Lady Vols.

 

[RAVOL]

100%. Which is where my frustration comes from with having that athleticism be on display vs. C-N, Samford, yet seemingly vanished against the first decent D1 team we play. I don't think the Lady Vols from 2 weeks ago let MTSU score 75 points, in my opinion. The team then was bringing tons of energy — not only in the full-court press, but even in the half-court D. Didn't see it that way tonight, but maybe that's my BVS coming out.

Either (a) I'm wrong about her system and the metrics/analytics being in its favor, as you say, or (b) the only way she fails here at UT is by failing on the S&C end and getting bullied by stronger teams (whose conditioning goes further than "let's do a bunch of cardio and have practices be even harder on your body than the games", which IMO can make you mentally strong, but softer physically than actual SEC S&C) come time to play against competition a bit stronger than the Mountain East and Sun Belt had.

And I hope I'm wrong about everything I'm saying. I'm sorry if I've given anyone, particularly thinking of Knox, second-hand cringe from what I've said, but it's coming from a place of wanting her to succeed (both as a Lady Vol fan and as a Grinnell System fan), with a fear that preserving her D2 S&C programme in her move to D1 won't work in the SEC. The UTM game was a bit concerning, and tonight's game far from relieved my concerns on this end. To let MTSU run their starters almost the entire game, and not drive them to fatigue to the point where they had to go the bench is a really bad look. Our system is supposed to be all about wearing out the opponent with better conditioning and playing the game around our conditioning and depth winning out in the end. Yet MTSU played 4 of their starters 38+ minutes, and they only lost by 14 . . . ? That's a red flag for Kim's team come conference time, unless they're able to make adjustments.

It's one simple thing in this game to many fouls stopping clock. Team is still learning how to press and trap without always reaching and grabbing that does take time because when your aggressive you just want that ball and go score so understanding when to reach and not and just ware team out which also leads to sloppy play and turnovers Cooper and Whitehorn especially still learning. So Middle got much needed rest with all the fouls and foul shots. My 2 cents. In CHRIST Alone

 

[VolBall09]

I’m not sure what a few folks may have dreamed of as revenge because the win last night by the Lady Vols is one of the most quality wins of the early season featuring two NCAA tourney teams.

In fact, I’ll go out on a limb and say that the Lady Vols win over MTSU by double digits is a better win than USC over Ole Miss and South Carolina over Michigan with the LVs winning by a wider margin. MTSU is as good as Michigan or Ole Miss.

I’m not sure any of the top SEC schools right now on a neutral court, home court, or the road would beat MTSU by a wider margin than 10-15 points.

This early in the season Coach Caldwell could not have asked for a better measuring stick game while still building her team and implementing a new system with so many new players.

The newcomers transitioning to this program are laying an incredible foundation for the future. And with her elite recruiting and returnees MTSU only got a taste of what is to come against this Coach Caldwell era Lady Vols.

Daddy’s little boy Matt didn’t like it either. He was seething after that technical. I caught Kim smiling under her hand. Her teams get under peoples’ skin. Been a long time since we were the perp and not the victim on that front lol.