Game Thread: MTSU v Lady Vols, Tues. Nov 12th; Home-FCC; 6:30PM; SEC+ network: win 89-75

[RespectAPA]

The folks trying to discredit this new era are doing themselves a disservice.

It's possible that some things are getting in translation, so I just want to ask directly: Knox, do you realize that I want CKC to be our coach for the next 30+ years? That my fears about the energy that I'm seeing on the court is that my concerns about her S&C might just be accurate? Because it is going to be difficult to win the SEC with D2 S&C, even with D1 athleticism higher than anything she's coached up to this point.

I don't merely want Lady Vols basketball to succeed generally, as I hope most fans do (even those skeptical of her system), I want her to succeed because I think playing her style of basketball is the way we back to relatively consistently making the Final Four again. I believe that our ceiling is higher with her (with good S&C, crucially) than with whatever coach we end up with next, if the mistakes that she makes as newbie to D1 (and only in her 9th season of being a WBB head coach!) end up meaning that she's gone within the same period of time as CKH, I will be incredibly disappointed, not just as a LV fan, but as a fan of her system.

That doesn't mean that everything that I've speculated about isn't wrong, obviously. And I'm sure I'm still wrong about some of it (I hope that I'm wrong about all of it, heh) I just hate that the response I'm getting from some people here is coming from the angle of me being a hater of how she coaches, her gameplan, when that isn't true. Faaaar from it, I'm one of the biggest fans of this system in the Tennessee fanbase!

But what I had heard on the S&C end, and now what I'm seeing on the court conditioning-wise... I'm concerned about it! Being behind in S&C in 2024 is much worse than doing these same things back in 1994, when way fewer teams in the country knew better. Nowadays, way more of them do know better. Especially in top conferences. Even if what she was doing in the Mountain East and Sun Belt didn't keep her from winning, doesn't mean that the SEC won't be an entirely different story. Which would be a depressing way for this experiment to fail, through unforced errors and being behind the times in S&C. (in a system where S&C is so crucial, getting it right or wrong may end up being the difference between coaching only 3 years in a major conference then fired, versus coaching the rest of her career here)

 

[Vunhopper]

It's possible that some things are getting in translation, so I just want to ask directly: Knox, do you realize that I want CKC to be our coach for the next 30+ years? That my fears about the energy that I'm seeing on the court is that my concerns about her S&C might just be accurate? Because it is going to be difficult to win the SEC with D2 S&C, even with D1 athleticism higher than anything she's coached up to this point.

I don't merely want Lady Vols basketball to succeed generally, as I hope most fans do (even those skeptical of her system), I want her to succeed because I think playing her style of basketball is the way we back to relatively consistently making the Final Four again. I believe that our ceiling is higher with her (with good S&C, crucially) than with whatever coach we end up with next, if the mistakes that she makes as newbie to D1 (and only in her 9th season of being a WBB head coach!) end up meaning that she's gone within the same period of time as CKH, I will be incredibly disappointed, not just as a LV fan, but as a fan of her system.

That doesn't mean that everything that I've speculated about isn't wrong, obviously. And I'm sure I'm still wrong about some of it (I hope that I'm wrong about all of it, heh) I just hate that the response I'm getting from some people here is coming from the angle of me being a hater of how she coaches, her gameplan, when that isn't true. Faaaar from it, I'm one of the biggest fans of this system in the Tennessee fanbase!

But what I had heard on the S&C end, and now what I'm seeing on the court conditioning-wise... I'm concerned about it! Being behind in S&C in 2024 is much worse than doing these same things back in 1994, when way fewer teams in the country knew better. Nowadays, way more of them do know better. Especially in top conferences. Even if what she was doing in the Mountain East and Sun Belt didn't keep her from winning, doesn't mean that the SEC won't be an entirely different story. Which would be a depressing way for this experiment to fail, through unforced errors and being behind the times in S&C. (in a system where S&C is so crucial, getting it right or wrong may end up being the difference between coaching only 3 years in a major conference then fired, versus coaching the rest of her career here)

Yeah, you guys may as well just pay the buyout now. We'd love to have her back here in West Virginia. It's easy to win in West Virginia with all the great NIL money we have. Our new coach is offering free breakfast at Tudor's as our NIL offer. It's so easy to get players with that.

 

[Dak1219]

Every player on Lady Vols roster has more talent than any player Caldwell has ever coached. There is no reason for any of them to ride the pine.

She will also be coaching against the best players that she has ever coached against and great coaches know that even slight drop offs of talent on the floor can be the difference between a win and a loss at the power 5 level.

 

[Vunhopper]

Some of her Glenville State teams could have beaten some SEC teams. lol... You guys act like the SEC is the hardest thing ever... Even though it's a VERY top heavy league.

 

[Rooster1]

She will also be coaching against the best players that she has ever coached against and great coaches know that even slight drop offs of talent on the floor can be the difference between a win and a loss at the power 5 level.

That is what we are all waiting to see Dak, I have high hopes for the LV’s this season, but I am the kind that thinks if we give her 2-3 years bigger things are coming. I’m in her camp, she is onto something here, and her recruiting is already top notch, it’s all upside from here in my opinion.

 

[Purplehaze26]

What happened to our defense?

Congrats for a nice win, though!

 

[Rooster1]

What happened to our defense?

Congrats for a nice win, though!

You need to readjust the scope. It has changed, windage is still important but this style favors automatic shots, the more the better, windage be damned. Think auto shot vs reload version. Volume over precision. That is this style and it may well be the answer.

 

[Vunhopper]

Advanced strategies work better the higher up the food chain you go. For example, running the air raid offense is hard to run in Pee-Wee football, but it works pretty good in college. It isn't like advanced strategies get worse the higher up you go. Caldwell is going to run through the SEC like sht through a tin horn.

 

[Rooster1]

Advanced strategies work better the higher up the food chain you go. For example, running the air raid offense is hard to run in Pee-Wee football, but it works pretty good in college. It isn't like advanced strategies get worse the higher up you go. Caldwell is going to run through the SEC like sht through a tin horn.

What is a tin horn, and why would anyone shoot **** at anything? Can **** penetrate tin? Enquiring minds would like to know, myself I am trying to picture someone shooting **** ((which is soft no?) and trying to penetrate a tin horn with it, whatever that may be but at the least tin is somewhat of a metal albeit soft for that substance tbh. I still cannot see **** penetrating any metal, no matter the density of the metal, but wth do I know. And what do you shoot sht with? A sht gun? What even is that?

I am nieve, do people shoot sht at tin objects and expect penetration by said sht ?

 

[chuckiepoo]

What is a tin horn, and why would anyone shoot **** at anything? Can **** penetrate tin? Enquiring minds would like to know, myself I am trying to picture someone shooting **** ((which is soft no?) and trying to penetrate a tin horn with it, whatever that may be but at the least tin is somewhat of a metal albeit soft for that substance tbh. I still cannot see **** penetrating any metal, no matter the density of the metal, but wth do I know.

When I hear that phrase I think of a funnel. Tin horn? Funnel?

 

[madtownvol]

This win also offered a little bit of a reality check. First quarter points in the paint were coming pretty easy for MTSU. The LVs broke that up by upping the intensity of the press but MTSU was still breaking it enough to stay in striking distance (would have a bit closer if MTSU could shoot FTs).

Boldyreva had her way for the 3 quarters but then the LVs did a better job in fronting her and not letting her get east entry passes. That will have to be the plan going forward when facing serious size in the post.

The LVs got called for some questionable ticky tack fouls but this style of defense is going to be foul prone. However, 27 is a bit much and too many to give away to a better team. Something to clean up.

Did y'all notice that the LV record for most 3s in a game (40) was taken (and made) by Tess?

LVs crushed the offensive boards tonight.

Cooper has had three games in a row where she was probably the MVP. Spencer nailing 3s is a great additional perk.

Impressed with the shooting range of this team. Tess, Sara, and Jewell hit some deeeeep threes. Decent 36% too.

A little bit of rotation tightening tonight - No Wells, No Strickland, and only 5 minutes for Favor. It will be interesting too see if tonights "core" of Spencer, Spear, Cooper, and Whitehorn continue take the most minutes when facing better teams

 

[chuckiepoo]

This win also offered a little bit of a reality check. First quarter points in the paint were coming pretty easy for MTSU. The LVs broke that up by upping the intensity of the press but MTSU was still breaking it enough to stay in striking distance (would have a bit closer if MTSU could shoot FTs).

Boldyreva had her way for the 3 quarters but then the LVs did a better job in fronting her and not letting her get east entry passes. That will have to be the plan going forward when facing serious size in the post.

The LVs got called for some questionable ticky tack fouls but this style of defense is going to be foul prone. However, 27 is a bit much and too many to give away to a better team. Something to clean up.

Did y'all notice that the LV record for most 3s in a game (40) was taken (and made) by Tess?

LVs crushed the offensive boards tonight.

Cooper has had three games in a row where she was probably the MVP. Spencer nailing 3s is a great additional perk.

Impressed with the shooting range of this team. Tess, Sara, and Jewell hit some deeeeep threes. Decent 36% too.

A little bit of rotation tightening tonight - No Wells, No Strickland, and only 5 minutes for Favor. It will be interesting too see if tonights "core" of Spencer, Spear, Cooper, and Whitehorn continue take the most minutes when facing better teams

You’re damn right we noticed! Congratulations Lady Vols and congratulations Tess!

 

[Lucy]

So we win by 14 against a team with a very experienced, good coach that beat us last year. A MTSU team that received top 25 votes and could very well end up being ranked.
We did that on a very stinky shooting night with a big negative foul ratio (I didn’t see the game so I can’t comment on the reasonableness of the foul disparity).
Not the revenge we were dreaming of but a solid early season win.
Based on the stats from the first three games Cooper is all that plus! Goodness, she can do it all! What an addition!

 

[Dak1219]

Some of her Glenville State teams could have beaten some SEC teams. lol... You guys act like the SEC is the hardest thing ever... Even though it's a VERY top heavy league.

Highly doubtful. There is a reason the players at the division 2 level are playing division 2. Most times they didn't have the skill set nor athleticism to play at the division one level and especially not at the power 5 level. Where did the last 3 national championships come from? That's right, the SEC...

 

[chuckiepoo]

(I didn’t see the game so I can’t comment on the reasonableness of the foul disparity)

The officiating was worse than typical SEC officiating. Check up thread. There was a consensus. Can’t recall one person piping up how unreasonable everyone was being by calling out the refs. It was that bad.

 

[RespectAPA]

Advanced strategies work better the higher up the food chain you go. For example, running the air raid offense is hard to run in Pee-Wee football, but it works pretty good in college. It isn't like advanced strategies get worse the higher up you go. Caldwell is going to run through the SEC like sht through a tin horn.

I agree that there's no real reason to expect it to suddenly not work at the D1 power conference level. It already has natties in D2 Men and D2 Women, so unless top level D1 Women happens to be some no-mans land pun not intended between those two levels of basketball where the system stops working, there's no strong reason to think that it couldn't natty in D1 Women's Basketball too.
I would bet money that within the next 25 years, a team will win a power conference championship running this scheme, men's or women's basketball. (IMO Nova Southeastern's men's basketball coach will work his way up there eventually, if the Lady Vols aren't the ones to make it happen; the success he has had with the Sharks MBB team ought to get him hired to a decent mid-major D1 before too long)
Hopefully the Lady Vols are the first!

 

[madtownvol]

The officiating was worse than typical SEC officiating. Check up thread. There was a consensus. Can’t recall one person piping up how unreasonable everyone was being by calling out the refs. It was that bad.

You are being harsh. The poor refs were just confused on whether a charge happens when a defender is not set or is set. It just like stalactites and stalagmites or Natalie Portman and Kiera Knightly.

 

[chuckiepoo]

You are being harsh. The poor refs just confused on whether a charge happens a defender is not set or is set. It just like stalactites and stalagmites or Natalie Portman and Kiera Knightly.

Thank you for piping up….

 

[Lucy]

The officiating was worse than typical SEC officiating. Check up thread. There was a consensus. Can’t recall one person piping up how unreasonable everyone was being by calling out the refs. It was that bad.

Yikesees! That is a low bar!

 

[madtownvol]

Agree to disagree. I think it was actually worse than the final stats make it look. Only that high bc Tess got hot at the end. And yes, I realize those count but against better competition, a first 3 qtrs of 3 pt shooting like tonight and we'll be in real trouble. And we've struggled there all 3 games, except Spencer, thank God for her. I'll say again, we have to find some consistency fm 3.

Samara's run of 3s in the 1st closed a MTSU gap quickly. That stretch was really stepping up as a team leader. But, kind of an off game for Ruby and Jewell really has not broken out yet. Still early but when the games get tough, the LVs will need those two to be in the groove.

 

[madtownvol]

Thank you for piping up….

It is what I do. My garb for every lady vol game:

 

[chuckiepoo]

It is what I do. My garb for every lady vol game:

View attachment 697072

…posted without comment.

 

[volfaninbuckeyeland]

Seems to me that this team has more scoring threats than in recent years as well as players who can actually bring the ball up the court without turning it over every other possession. Lots of energy and athleticism; entertaining to watch. Some obvious weaknesses, especially pertaining to defense, but the outcome does not seem to be based primarily on the performance of one player as much as it has been the last couple of years.

 

[jsc1973]

Highly doubtful. There is a reason the players at the division 2 level are playing division 2. Most times they didn't have the skill set nor athleticism to play at the division one level and especially not at the power 5 level. Where did the last 3 national championships come from? That's right, the SEC...

The two best players on her Glenville State national championship team graduated after that season and used their extra COVID years to play a season at Division I Buffalo.

Re'Shawna Stone, who was the D2 National Player of the Year in 2022, played for the Bulls in '23 and averaged 17.4 points, 5.3 rebounds and 3.8 assists on 48.1 percent shooting. Zakiyah Winfield, who was her backcourt-mate, also went to Buffalo and averaged 14.8 points, 10.5 rebounds (as a guard!) and 3.9 assists. So they were both pretty darn good, clearly D1 caliber. But Buffalo went 12-16 with them. Winfield seems to be playing in some low-level pro league in Germany now, and Stone is doing the same in Finland.

The third-best player on Glenville's '22 team was Dazha Congleton, who had transferred down from Marshall after doing very little there. (I guess the Herd got even by poaching Kim.) The fourth-best was Taychaun Hubbard, just a good D2 player who averaged 9 points and 4.4 rebounds per game in her four years there.

Glenville State in its national championship season was probably at a middle-of-the-pack mid-major level, being generous. They had two good-but-not-great D1 caliber players and the rest of the team was just D2 talents. Maybe they could have beaten a bad SEC team on a good day. But there is no way they could have been competitive night in, night out. If they had played South Carolina, Dawn Staley just puts two good defenders on Stone and Winfield and wins by 60. If she's in a good mood...

 

[knoxvol52]

Well this team done something last years team couldn't accomplish. They didn't falter in the 4th Quarter..