Game Thread: UT Martin v Lady Vols, Thurs Nov 7th; Home-FCC; 6:30PM; SEC+ network...UT wins 90-50

[lvocd]

Just been tough sledding for this kid since she left Belmont. Sure hope things turn around for her.

As far as court time, yes. But I gotta believe she's like most other transfers into Tennessee from smaller schools/less supported programs, that she loves all the perks there are for being a Tennessee Lady Vol.

Over the years we've had quite a few transfers, and they always seem to me to be so very grateful for their current and future places as Lady Vols For Life.

Injuries definitely suck, but they happen everwhere. If I were a player I'd rather be sidelined with an injury at Tennessee than anywhere else!

 

[lvocd]

Speaking of Niya Butts, I thought she was terrific last nght! If you'd have told me in the 90s that Niya would one day become a confident tv announcer I'd have laughed my butt off at how ridiculous that sounded. She was so shy and quiet.

Seriously, I think we'll be seeing her doing a lot more commentating going forward, 'cause she has some natural talent.

 

[Coach Jumper]

100%. As rebounding and shot margin inevitably shrinks, someone has to be a consistent 3 shooter, meaning shoot 35% all/most of the time, not 65% one night and 20 the next. I think that's probably Jewel, possibly Sara tho that's not going well (just 1-12 so far!).

Yep !
Rebounding is not that concerning to me (YET) bc we are averaging 47.5 to our oppomnent's avg of 33,,,But right now the thing re this that I am worried about is ,, we are outrebounding opponents on athleticism alone often snagging rebound out of the air over opponents,,,and as we start playing equal athletes that won't happen at this rate.

3 PT shooting for a team that shoots so many is absolutely my worry...Number's don't lie and our shooting percentage for three's per player are atrocious once we get past the top two:


Granted that two of them I fully expect to turn it around quickly (Puckett and Darby)

 

[Mafiaboss]

Nah, I like this guy! He's a good coach. I like that he let his personality out in front of the orange press. That's gutsy. He knows the plan he's working to bring his girls to where they need to be to vie for their conference again.

And if someone broke my player's hand--AND no foul was called... I don't know that I'd have the self-control that he displayed in answering that question. Our radio announcer mentioned several times that the refs missed obvious fouls on both teams, but that UT-M got especially (or, more blatantly) jobbed.

Thanks for posting that, VolBall09!

I don’t think a Lady Vol intentionally broke the player’s hand…if it happened at all. If it did happen, it had to have been a consequence of just playing the game.

 

[Mafiaboss]

Speaking of Niya Butts, I thought she was terrific last nght! If you'd have told me in the 90s that Niya would one day become a confident tv announcer I'd have laughed my butt off at how ridiculous that sounded. She was so shy and quiet.

Seriously, I think we'll be seeing her doing a lot more commentating going forward, 'cause she has some natural talent.

Yes, I love her personality.

 

[Mafiaboss]

Perspective. New system. New team (have practiced and played 3 games together). Baby steps.

 

[Mafiaboss]

Unfortunately the video is one of those miserable, now ubiquitous, "only offense" edits, showing only enough defense to show the turnover that led to points. (Why do people do this??? Basketball has the most continuously interesting defensive action of any sport!)

But I'll take your word for it. Even on offense, you can see how quickly and smoothly they are moving compared to our girls right now.

At the start of the Samford game (before we were tired) we looked like we were wearing 5lb. ankle weights on defense. If anyone thinks that's hyperbole or nega-spin, replay the first few defensive sets, watching the ball defenders' feet in response to the dribbler.

I disagree. They’re learning the system. Times they’re slow is due to having to think about where they need to be. More experience, they won’t need to think about it.

 

[007Racer]

Yep !
Rebounding is not that concerning to me (YET) bc we are averaging 47.5 to our oppomnent's avg of 33,,,But right now the thing re this that I am worried about is ,, we are outrebounding opponents on athleticism alone often snagging rebound out of the air over opponents,,,and as we start playing equal athletes that won't happen at this rate.

3 PT shooting for a team that shoots so many is absolutely my worry...Number's don't lie and our shooting percentage for three's per player are atrocious once we get past the top two:
View attachment 695466

Granted that two of them I fully expect to turn it around quickly (Puckett and Darby)

For us old Geesers, Replay, please.

 

[Coach Jumper]

For us old Geesers, Replay, please.

say what?

 

[Coach Jumper]

Dude is such a loser lol.

Claims they controlled the pace…no. Maybe for about 3-6 minutes of play the entire game.

Then claims one of our players broke their player's hand.

He keeps saying his team goes brain-dead and freaks out

Hate to tell you this coach, but,
teams take on the personality and characteristics of its coach

 

[Rooster1]

Here is a good article explaining why the team does not worry about missed shots or mistakes…sorry if already posted. Good read though.

It's clear after 2 games, Lady Vols basketball embracing Kim Caldwell's fast-paced system

The Lady Vols don't have time to dwell on mistakes as they adjust to Kim Caldwell's fast-paced system on the fly

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Scotty4lvs]

Spencer, otoh, has started 4-7 fm 3 and tho a small sample, that's very encouraging. So far, for me, there's everything to like about Spencer's start.

I didn't know what exactly to expect from Spencer, coming from Arkansas where there were clearly locker room issues or the program wouldn't have been basically gutted in the past couple of years, but she goes HARD and seems to be truly bought in...love her so far!

 

[Rooster1]

I didn't know what exactly to expect from Spencer, coming from Arkansas where there were clearly locker room issues or the program wouldn't have been basically gutted in the past couple of years, but she goes HARD and seems to be truly bought in...love her so far!

She was always one of the best PG’s in the conference, just needed the right coach and system which Ark didn’t provide.

 

[Mafiaboss]

He keeps saying his team goes brain-dead and freaks out

Hate to tell you this coach, but,
teams take on the personality and characteristics of its coach

Didn’t look like it to me. They’re a pretty good team. We’re better.

 

[Rooster1]

Didn’t look like it to me. They’re a pretty good team. We’re better.

They will be very competitive in their league, they did look pretty good at times and kept their spirit throughout the game.

 

[glv98]

Here is a good article explaining why the team does not worry about missed shots or mistakes…sorry if already posted. Good read though.

It's clear after 2 games, Lady Vols basketball embracing Kim Caldwell's fast-paced system

The Lady Vols don't have time to dwell on mistakes as they adjust to Kim Caldwell's fast-paced system on the fly

sports.yahoo.com

Thanks. Pretty sure we understand the basic premise. Missed shots don't matter as much if you out rebound and out shot attempt your opponent by a wide enough margin.

But missed shots begin to matter more when you play more talented opponents who you cant outrebound, out possess, and turn over so much. That was the point some of us were making. As we face better talent and those stats skew more closely, someone has to be able to hit the 3 ball more consistently.

That's why CKC said coming out of early summer practice that one her biggest concerns was 3 pt shooting.

 

[BruisedOrange]

He keeps saying his team goes brain-dead and freaks out

Hate to tell you this coach, but,
teams take on the personality and characteristics of its coach

A good verbal sparring comeback... but on screen, that might become a tempting dare for someone to comb through everything CKC has said--or you--and try to make the same point.

If it disappears from your post, I ain't sayin' nuttin.

 

[Rooster1]

Thanks. Pretty sure we understand the basic premise. Missed shots don't matter as much if you out rebound and out shot attempt your opponent by a wide enough margin.

But missed shots begin to matter more when you play more talented opponents who you cant outrebound, out possess, and turn over so much. That was the point some of us were making. As we face better talent and those stats skew more closely, someone has to be able to hit the 3 ball more consistently.

That's why CKC said coming out of early summer practice that one her biggest concerns was 3 pt shooting.

One would think a conservative estimate of 3’s taken per game will be around 25-30, that’s her track record. Probably enough to lead the nation tbh. By season’s end if they are conservatively shooting 10-30 (33%) as a team average that is 30 pts per game from the 3. Since her teams average over 80 shots per game, the other 50+ shots would be for 2 and at a 48% clip from that range that’s another 50 points. Her teams get to the line enough to score well over 85 PPG, I don’t think that will change much even in the SEC.

If the team shooting averages come in even a bit lower than those estimates, keep in mind I purposely played down foul shots by a bunch, which would make up the difference, I think CKC knows that getting the volume of shots up each game is one of the biggest weapons in her system, and the constant defensive pressure almost guarantees she will be successful at that imo. They will lead the conference in turnovers created and steals, plus 3’s taken by a wide margin and yes 3’s made. Sounds like a nasty recipe for opposing teams. They aren’t fretting shot %’s. Thats the whole point in this system. And there may be only a handful of teams in the conference deep enough to play all 4 quarters against this style without running out of gas.

I have not followed CKH since she was dismissed so I don’t know where she is or what she is doing this season, but I am sure she has her eye on what is happening in Knoxville. Her schedule was pretty brutal last season, I’m sure she wishes she had scheduled it differently in hindsight. But she probably sees the progress going on in Tenn anyway. She was classy and I wish her the best. This team will be much more competitive however imo. I expect a top 3-4 place in the SEC, maybe better. They can absolutely beat any team on any given night and that will be the case all season as they climb the national rankings.

 

[glv98]

One would think a conservative estimate of 3’s taken per game will be around 25-30, that’s her track record. Probably enough to lead the nation tbh. By season’s end if they are conservatively shooting 10-30 (33%) as a team average that is 30 pts per game from the 3. Since her teams average over 80 shots per game, the other 50+ shots would be for 2 and at a 48% clip from that range that’s another 50 points. Her teams get to the line enough to score well over 85 PPG, I don’t think that will change much even in the SEC.

If the team shooting averages come in even a bit lower than those estimates, keep in mind I purposely played down foul shots by a bunch, which would make up the difference, I think CKC knows that getting the volume of shots up each game is one of the biggest weapons in her system, and the constant defensive pressure almost guarantees she will be successful at that imo. They will lead the conference in turnovers created and steals, plus 3’s taken by a wide margin and yes 3’s made. Sounds like a nasty recipe for opposing teams. They aren’t fretting shot %’s. Thats the whole point in this system. And there may be only a handful of teams in the conference deep enough to play all 4 quarters against this style without running out of gas.

I have not followed CKH since she was dismissed so I don’t know where she is or what she is doing this season, but I am sure she has her eye on what is happening in Knoxville. Her schedule was pretty brutal last season, I’m sure she wishes she had scheduled it differently in hindsight. But she probably sees the progress going on in Tenn anyway. She was classy and I wish her the best. This team will be much more competitive however imo. I expect a top 3-4 place in the SEC, maybe better. They can absolutely beat any team on any given night and that will be the case all season as they climb the national rankings.

LOL, and again, I understand the statistical premise. Still, I'll probably just go w CKC's instinct that this team needs a reliable, consistent 3 pt shooter to increase their margin of error and make life easier, esp against more talented teams.

 

[madtownvol]

Thanks. Pretty sure we understand the basic premise. Missed shots don't matter as much if you out rebound and out shot attempt your opponent by a wide enough margin.

But missed shots begin to matter more when you play more talented opponents who you cant outrebound, out possess, and turn over so much. That was the point some of us were making. As we face better talent and those stats skew more closely, someone has to be able to hit the 3 ball more consistently.

That's why CKC said coming out of early summer practice that one her biggest concerns was 3 pt shooting.

There are some tactical parallels between basketball and soccer. CKC's teams are what in soccer is a called a high press team. They try to trap teams in their own half of the field and win the ball. These teams are oriented toward the wings but they often abdicate the midfield which is where opponents can attack them, if they beat the press.

We actually saw that against UT-M, a middling team that until they fatigue was handling the press pretty well and getting shots in the paint. They missed some bunnies, mishandled some passes, and sometimes our defenders used their speed to recover and contest.

Every system has strengths and weaknesses. As long as CKC can control the tempo of a game and create TOs through the press, the soft center won't be too much of a problem. If a team has the talent to beat our press, it will be interesting to see what the Plan B is.

 

[Rooster1]

There are some tactical parallels between basketball and soccer. CKC's teams are what in soccer is a called a high press team. They try to trap teams in their own half of the field and win the ball. These teams are oriented toward the wings but they often abdicate the midfield which were opponents can attack them, if they beat the press.

We actually saw that against UT-M, a middling team that until they fatigue was handling the press pretty well and getting shots in the paint. They missed some bunnies, mishandled some passes, and sometimes our defenders used their speed to recover and contest.

Every system has strengths and weaknesses. As long as CKC can control the tempo of a game and create TOs through the press, the soft center won't be too much of a problem. If a team has the talent to beat our press, it will be interesting to see what the Plan B is.

If and WHEN they run into a team(s) that is adept at breaking the press early I think plan B for this coach is to keep rotating fresh legs all game until the press is working and she finally wears the other team down. That seems like her mindset and she believes her teams can do this. She knows there are four quarters. It’s a battle of wills, she believes her teams have the stronger will for 4 quarters, she won’t drop the full court press imo in many games if any. I admire her belief and dedication in her team’s identity. Losses will be lessons in how to be better at their identity, not how to abandon it.

So her plan B will always be to get better at her plan A until they don’t need a plan B. I dig it actually. But to your point, for sure she is coaching up half court defense also as it is a big part of every game against good teams. Btw, Spearman showing signs of a dominant big. Coop, Whitehorn, Spear and Spence all look incredible early also. Ruby has her sights set very high for this season.

if you haven’t noticed…..I’m a huge believer in what Caldwell is building and her style of ball. It’s exciting and WBB is better for it, not the same old sh*t everyone else is trying to do. I like cutting edge stuff myself, root for it.

 

[glv98]

Losses will be lessons in how to be better at their identity, not how to abandon it.

So her plan B will always be to get better at her plan A until they don’t need a plan B. I dig it actually

Yes, as a fan of an opposing team most likely to seriously challenge plan A, I'll bet you do actually dig it.

I think there's a fine line in there somewhere. Sticking to it is great, but losing bc of stubborness against versatility is another issue. If you know Plan A is high risk/high reward, it seems all the more reason to have a Plan B. Interesting to see how it all works out.

 

[Rooster1]

Yes, as a fan of an opposing team most likely to seriously challenge plan A, I'll bet you do actually dig it.

I think there's a fine line in there somewhere. Sticking to it is great, but losing bc of stubborness against versatility is another issue. If you know Plan A is high risk/high reward, it seems all the more reason to have a Plan B. Interesting to see how it all works out.

The level of risk and reward changes throughout a game depending on which team has the horses to see their plan through for 4 quarters. I expect a ton of games this season where at halftime the LV’s are not where they want to be for the game, it’s the 3rd and 4th quarters of those games where we will see who wins the battle of wills and has the stamina left in the tank to finish their game plan. Fresh legs every 90 seconds with little to no drop off? That sounds like a dominant second half team to me.

 

[chuckiepoo]

He keeps saying his team goes brain-dead and freaks out

Hate to tell you this coach, but,
teams take on the personality and characteristics of its coach

How many times does he ask the interviewer, “Does that make sense?”

Bad, bad catch phrase/cliche for a coach.

 

[Coach Jumper]

How many times does he ask the interviewer, “Does that make sense?”

Bad, bad catch phrase/cliche for a coach.

so was "I could be eating dinner right now"
So could the interviewers,,, coach.
I loathe condescending people