Gators lose top defensive player for season

#51
#51
MikeVol44 said:
:crazy::crazy::crazy:

McElwain is a good game-day coach...

He found a way to beat CBJ in 2015...

And CJM went on the road to beat LSU to win the SEC East....

CBJ couldn't go to USCe after an OFF WEEK and beat Muschamp to win the SEC East...

I hate the Gators as much as anyone--but CJM has done a better job of coaching up what talent he has when compared to CBJ....

CBJ hasn't beaten ANY team from the West....0-8.....:salute:
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I see this cited a lot as a way to disparage Butch Jones but it's misleading in relation to other teams in the East who do not play Alabama on an annual basis. Tennessee's record vs Alabama since 2013 is 0-4 but nobody else in the East has beaten or would have beaten them since then either. Tennessee also played and lost to Auburn in 2013 who played for (and narrowly lost) the National Championship. Two of Tennessee's other 3 West games were on the road at Ole Miss ('14) and Texas A&M ('16)... They really should have beaten Arkansas at home in '15 and Texas A&M last year but 0-8 doesn't tell the whole story about the competition Tennessee has faced compared to Florida and the rest of the East.

...and McElwain certainly did not do a better job of coaching up the talent he had (7 defensive players drafted in the top 100 but still allowed 38 points and 498 yards) than Butch Jones last Sept. 26th. :salute:
 
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#52
#52
lawgator1 said:
I'm speaking to the notion of sustained recruiting being a function of sustained success in winning. Saban barely has to recruit because every player who wants to go to the NFL knows that if he invites them to Alabama, its a road to the NFL for them. That, in turn, is because Saban has built a program where a one loss season is a disappointment.

When you have a series of a few years (or in our case, about a decade) of terrible QB play and most of all inconsistency, it s hard to sell a quality WR or an NFL offensive line prospect on the idea of coming to UF to be in an offense with ??????

Once you have a guy in there for a couple of years, and they are putting up numbers, and there's a guy right behind him you can say, hey, this QB is going to make YOU look good to the NFL, then you get sustained success on the field and in recruiting.

Saban is a master at that. Florida, though boobery by Muschamp and a lot of bad luck otherwise has had no consistency on offense, making it tough to convince top recruits come be in the pipeline to whatever amalgamation of mediocrity we are going to come up with next year.

Tennessee, on the other hand, has had a sustained QB progression and yet keeps coming up behind UF in the SECe, while UF puts its offense together every year with chewing gum and kite string.

In other words, I feel like we have had an excuse, or at least an explanation, for our mediocrity for the last 5-10 years.

Whats' yours?
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Our excuse for last year is apparently everyone on our defense was injured. Or something like that.
 
#53
#53
lawgator1 said:
I'm speaking to the notion of sustained recruiting being a function of sustained success in winning. Saban barely has to recruit because every player who wants to go to the NFL knows that if he invites them to Alabama, its a road to the NFL for them. That, in turn, is because Saban has built a program where a one loss season is a disappointment.

When you have a series of a few years (or in our case, about a decade) of terrible QB play and most of all inconsistency, it s hard to sell a quality WR or an NFL offensive line prospect on the idea of coming to UF to be in an offense with ??????

Once you have a guy in there for a couple of years, and they are putting up numbers, and there's a guy right behind him you can say, hey, this QB is going to make YOU look good to the NFL, then you get sustained success on the field and in recruiting.

Saban is a master at that. Florida, though boobery by Muschamp and a lot of bad luck otherwise has had no consistency on offense, making it tough to convince top recruits come be in the pipeline to whatever amalgamation of mediocrity we are going to come up with next year.

Tennessee, on the other hand, has had a sustained QB progression and yet keeps coming up behind UF in the SECe, while UF puts its offense together every year with chewing gum and kite string.

In other words, I feel like we have had an excuse, or at least an explanation, for our mediocrity for the last 5-10 years.

Whats' yours?
Click to expand...

38-28.

Now, go back to the politics forum. Your posts are much better over there. :peace2:
 
#54
#54
Boogie said:
I absolutely hate it for this young man, this is a guy who came back as a fifth year senior to lead his team and improve his draft stock. It does make for an interesting discussion, however.

http://www.seccountry.com/florida/marcell-harris-miss-2017-torn-achilles

With a Florida defense that already needs to replace (8) starters from last years defense (we'll call it 9 now), and after watching the impact of losing JRM and others on last years Tennessee defense, are the discussions that Florida will win the East/finish second in the East reasonable?

Sure they have loads of talent, but they effectively have to replace an entire defense and we're all aware that their offense hasn't been their forte of late. Lets not forget, they're also trying to find a starting QB to lead their team. From my perspective, Florida has many more unknowns than we do, so what's realistic? Florida's success the last few season is 100% linked to their defense, of which, is completely different this year.

Thoughts?
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some how they muster up enough talent to bet us and GA
 
#55
#55
lawgator1 said:
I'm speaking to the notion of sustained recruiting being a function of sustained success in winning. Saban barely has to recruit because every player who wants to go to the NFL knows that if he invites them to Alabama, its a road to the NFL for them. That, in turn, is because Saban has built a program where a one loss season is a disappointment.

When you have a series of a few years (or in our case, about a decade) of terrible QB play and most of all inconsistency, it s hard to sell a quality WR or an NFL offensive line prospect on the idea of coming to UF to be in an offense with ??????

Once you have a guy in there for a couple of years, and they are putting up numbers, and there's a guy right behind him you can say, hey, this QB is going to make YOU look good to the NFL, then you get sustained success on the field and in recruiting.

Saban is a master at that. Florida, though boobery by Muschamp and a lot of bad luck otherwise has had no consistency on offense, making it tough to convince top recruits come be in the pipeline to whatever amalgamation of mediocrity we are going to come up with next year.

Tennessee, on the other hand, has had a sustained QB progression and yet keeps coming up behind UF in the SECe, while UF puts its offense together every year with chewing gum and kite string.

In other words, I feel like we have had an excuse, or at least an explanation, for our mediocrity for the last 5-10 years.

Whats' yours?
Click to expand...
Your way smarter than you act.
 
#56
#56
Lawrence Wright said:
I trust McElwain to do more with less almost as much as I expect Jones to do less with more.

The last two seasons are Exhibit A and Exhibit B.
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Mac hasn't exactly done more with less. He inherited a crazy talented defense that has been on par with Muschamps. Both years His offense however, has put up less points per game than all of Muschamps years at UF except for 2013.
 
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#57
#57
lawgator1 said:
I'm speaking to the notion of sustained recruiting being a function of sustained success in winning. Saban barely has to recruit because every player who wants to go to the NFL knows that if he invites them to Alabama, its a road to the NFL for them. That, in turn, is because Saban has built a program where a one loss season is a disappointment.

When you have a series of a few years (or in our case, about a decade) of terrible QB play and most of all inconsistency, it s hard to sell a quality WR or an NFL offensive line prospect on the idea of coming to UF to be in an offense with ??????

Once you have a guy in there for a couple of years, and they are putting up numbers, and there's a guy right behind him you can say, hey, this QB is going to make YOU look good to the NFL, then you get sustained success on the field and in recruiting.

Saban is a master at that. Florida, though boobery by Muschamp and a lot of bad luck otherwise has had no consistency on offense, making it tough to convince top recruits come be in the pipeline to whatever amalgamation of mediocrity we are going to come up with next year.

Tennessee, on the other hand, has had a sustained QB progression and yet keeps coming up behind UF in the SECe, while UF puts its offense together every year with chewing gum and kite string.

In other words, I feel like we have had an excuse, or at least an explanation, for our mediocrity for the last 5-10 years.

Whats' yours?
Click to expand...

Dooley.

Mac was left with ALOT of Talent. Butch had zero.

When Tennessee was turning the corner we had over 20 different starters on defense, 30% of our travel roster injured, a dozen different starting combinations in the secondary and Oline and had 3 of our 4 captains hurt at one point. 3 of our 4 best defensive players hurt. 1 healthy DT on scholarship. I mean, we beat UF by 10 without having 3 of our 4 best Defensive players and held y'all to what 15 yards for over half the second half?

Injuries are a valid explanation and had you just cut that number in half we go 10-2 or better. No team in the country lives up to expectations with the injuries we had
 
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#58
#58
Smokey123 said:
Dooley.

Mac was left with ALOT of Talent. Butch had zero.

When Tennessee was turning the corner we had over 20 different starters on defense, 30% of our travel roster injured, a dozen different starting combinations in the secondary and Oline and had 3 of our 4 captains hurt at one point. 3 of our 4 best defensive players hurt. 1 healthy DT on scholarship. I mean, we beat UF by 10 without having 3 of our 4 best Defensive players and held y'all to what 15 yards for over half the second half?

Injuries are a valid explanation and had you just cut that number in half we go 10-2 or better. No team in the country lives up to expectations with the injuries we had
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Beating UF at home when you're favored doesn't excuse losing to Vandy or South Carolina when you're favored, regardless of injuries.
 
#59
#59
Lawrence Wright said:
Beating UF at home when you're favored doesn't excuse losing to Vandy or South Carolina when you're favored, regardless of injuries.
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Oh I agree we definitely still should have won both even with the injuries. But there's no denying they still played a major a role in the losses
 
#64
#64
lawgator1 said:
I'm speaking to the notion of sustained recruiting being a function of sustained success in winning. Saban barely has to recruit because every player who wants to go to the NFL knows that if he invites them to Alabama, its a road to the NFL for them. That, in turn, is because Saban has built a program where a one loss season is a disappointment.

When you have a series of a few years (or in our case, about a decade) of terrible QB play and most of all inconsistency, it s hard to sell a quality WR or an NFL offensive line prospect on the idea of coming to UF to be in an offense with ??????

Once you have a guy in there for a couple of years, and they are putting up numbers, and there's a guy right behind him you can say, hey, this QB is going to make YOU look good to the NFL, then you get sustained success on the field and in recruiting.

Saban is a master at that. Florida, though boobery by Muschamp and a lot of bad luck otherwise has had no consistency on offense, making it tough to convince top recruits come be in the pipeline to whatever amalgamation of mediocrity we are going to come up with next year.

Tennessee, on the other hand, has had a sustained QB progression and yet keeps coming up behind UF in the SECe, while UF puts its offense together every year with chewing gum and kite string.

In other words, I feel like we have had an excuse, or at least an explanation, for our mediocrity for the last 5-10 years.

Whats' yours?
Click to expand...

Yes, yes. The self deprecating from last year is wearing off and you cocky gators are coming back. We'll see soon enough my man.

Butch has overachieved once, met expectations once and underachieved once. This year you all better hope the media is right or oh boy!
 
#67
#67
Lawrence Wright said:
Yes, it's the UF fans being cocky. :blink:
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It's not our fault McElwain failed to beat Butch when he was already up by 3 scores before halftime.

Say what you want but it was piss poor coaching that cost you that game.

Not to mention Tabor running his mouth just gave us extra motivation.
 
#68
#68
VolFreakJosh said:
It's not our fault McElwain failed to beat Butch when he was already up by 3 scores before halftime.

Say what you want but it was piss poor coaching that cost you that game.

Not to mention Tabor running his mouth just gave us extra motivation.
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Losing a game > Losing the division

9sfb86.jpg
 
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#70
#70
Lawrence Wright said:
Jimbo Fisher is a much bigger problem for our football program than Nick Saban.

Playing second fiddle to Alabama won't get you fired.

Getting blown out by FSU every year, on the field and recruiting, will get you fired.

Add in Richt at Miami...yeah, that's a problem too.
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Agree 100%...

I personally can't stand Fisher....and I'm a SEC homer, so I want the Gators to beat both FSU and Miami (but I do like Richt) to maintain SEC superiority...while still being bad enough to lose to my VOLS! :):) :salute:
 
#72
#72
BowlBrother85 said:
I see this cited a lot as a way to disparage Butch Jones....doesn't tell the whole story about the competition Tennessee has faced compared to Florida and the rest of the East.

...and McElwain certainly did not do a better job of coaching up the talent he had (7 defensive players drafted in the top 100 but still allowed 38 points and 498 yards) than Butch Jones last Sept. 26th. :salute:
Click to expand...

Well--

CBJ is 14-18 in the SEC in 4 years...

That means that he is 14-10 (58%) against the SEC East.....

and 0-8 in the West...with losses to unranked Ole Sis, unranked Arky at home, #9 Auburn at home, and #8 aTm on the road...

In direct head to head comparisons.....

CJM is 13-5 in the SEC in 2 years...

11-1 (92%) against the SEC East....only loss to Vols... with NO losses to Vandy or SCe....or UGA...

West record is 2-4...
with road wins over #3 Ole Miss...and #16 LSU...

Losses are on the road to #6 LSU and unranked Arky...

Bama twice in SEC championship...

So--THE WHOLE STORY is that CJM has beaten 2 ranked teams from the West with musical chairs on the OL and without a QB anywhere near the caliber of Dobbs...than CBJ has been able to accomplish in 4 years....


:salute:
 
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#73
#73
MikeVol44 said:
Well--

CBJ is 14-18 in the SEC in 4 years...

That means that he is 14-10 (58%) against the SEC East.....

and 0-8 in the West...with losses to unranked Ole Sis, unranked Arky at home, #9 Auburn at home, and #8 aTm on the road...

In direct head to head comparisons.....

CJM is 13-5 in the SEC in 2 years...

11-1 (92%) against the SEC East....only loss to Vols...

West record is 2-4...
with road wins over #3 Ole Miss...and #16 LSU...

Losses are on the road to #6 LSU and unranked Arky...

Bama twice in SEC Atlanta...

So--THE WHOLE STORY is that CJM has accomplished more in 2 years with musical chairs on the OL and without a QB anywhere near the caliber of Dobbs...than CBJ has been able to accomplish in 4 years....

:salute:
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Good post, but one correction...McElwain beat #3 Ole Miss in Gainesville two seasons ago.
 
#74
#74
MikeVol44 said:
Well--

CBJ is 14-18 in the SEC in 4 years...

That means that he is 14-10 (58%) against the SEC East.....

and 0-8 in the West...with losses to unranked Ole Sis, unranked Arky at home, #9 Auburn at home, and #8 aTm on the road...

In direct head to head comparisons.....

CJM is 13-5 in the SEC in 2 years...

11-1 (92%) against the SEC East....only loss to Vols... with NO losses to Vandy or SCe....or UGA...

West record is 2-4...
with road wins over #3 Ole Miss...and #16 LSU...

Losses are on the road to #6 LSU and unranked Arky...

Bama twice in SEC championship...

So--THE WHOLE STORY is that CJM has beaten 2 ranked teams from the West with musical chairs on the OL and without a QB anywhere near the caliber of Dobbs...than CBJ has been able to accomplish in 4 years....


:salute:
Click to expand...

38-28 :salute:
 
#75
#75
BowlBrother85 said:
I agree with much of what you posted here but not this. Kevin Sumlin (not saying he is a great coach, just better than Dooley) did express interest in Tennessee in January of 2010. He had just finished his 2nd season at Houston and finished with 10-4 record. He would have made more sense than Dooley.
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Thought he said "thanks but no thanks." Could be wrong through.
 
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