gay day for schools

#76
#76
volsforever27 said:
But do you not get my point about the whole "writing a paper" deal? I'm not sure about today, but when I was in high school, any event during school hours that had any kind of prayer in it always had kids that chose not to participate. They could go to some other place while the functionw as going on. If they had to write a paper on why they didn't participate, the ACLU would have been all over it. That's one of my beefs with this.

EDIT: Just notcied your post about the FCA, that's what I was using as an example. No one was forced to write a apaper if they didn't participate.
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I would be willing to bet you a large sum of money that the schools that are forcing kids to write papers are in the vast minority. I have already touched on this and I am with you, I think it is absolutely wrong, but it's not the norm.
 
#77
#77
emainvol said:
You are putting words into my mouth.

And yes, I do absolutely think that tolerance should be taught in schools as well as at home.

My calling this bigotry is simply calling a spade a spade. The fundamentalists make it really easy to call them out on bigotry, because a good percentage of them are simply bigots.
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Is there no bigotry againt Christians?
 
#78
#78
volsforever27 said:
Are they making a whole day for it? And are they having a day or silence? Nope. They're trying to make an issue that is best left at hoome, please don't try to decide what my daughter needs to be exposed to. Why limit it to gays? The feeling is if you're opposed to this, you support violence against gays, and that's simply not the case.
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I remember when I was in middle school during Dessert Shield/Storm...and we spent hours upon hours over many days talking about the troops, and preparing packages/letters/banners for them. I remember learning about civil rights on Martin Luther King Day in history...writing about MLK in English...and reading African and African American authors in Reading. I also remember something like this day being around when I was in school (maybe it was highschool)...and I remember it being pretty much a non-factor all day. Years later...it turns out that two of my friends were battling inside with homosexuality ... luckily, they both made it out OK. The are currently living a homosexual lifestyle .. and are happy. But, I would have never guessed in a million years those guys might be gay. I could have used a little education (which this day of silence isn't...I'm just saying..) to be honest. Those guys spent a lot of silent moments out of fear....
 
#79
#79
emainvol said:
I would be willing to bet you a large sum of money that the schools that are forcing kids to write papers are in the vast minority. I have already touched on this and I am with you, I think it is absolutely wrong, but it's not the norm.
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It's becoming more commonplace that you may realize... like teachers making students watch "An Inconvient truth" etc.
 
#80
#80
bigtime said:
Emainvol are you actually from Tennessee? You should no this kind of day is not going to be widely accepted, its pure nonsense, I think its a shame that they try and teach children to be accepting of the homosexual lifestyle
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Just because I live in the middle of the Bible belt doesn't mean that I can't think for myself, thank you very much.
 
#81
#81
TennTradition said:
I remember when I was in middle school during the Dessert Storm...and we spent hours upon hours over many days talking about the troops, and preparing packages/letters/banners for them. I remember learning about civil rights on Martin Luther King Day in history...writing about MLK in English...and reading African and African American authors in Reading. I also remember something like this day being around when I was in school (maybe it was highschool)...and I remember it being pretty much a non-factor all day. Years later...it turns out that two of my friends were battling inside with homosexuality ... luckily, they both made it out OK. The are currently living a homosexual lifestyle .. and are happy. But, I would have never guessed in a million years those guys might be gay. I could have used a little education (which this day of silence isn't...I'm just saying..) to be honest. Those guys spent a lot of silent moments out of fear....
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That's not the same thing... I'm against any kind of violence or fear. I think it's my job as a parent to teach my kid anything involving sex, alt lifestyles etc. I've taught my child never to be violent or discriminate, and I bet she'll be just fine without any kind of school involvement.
 
#82
#82
volsforever27 said:
That's not the same thing... I'm against any kind of violence or fear. I think it's my job as a parent to teach my kid anything involving sex, alt lifestyles etc. I've taught my child never to be violent or discriminate, and I bet she'll be just fine without any kind of school involvement.
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Good for you..I'm glad you do that. However, you know and I know that there are a lot of kids out there that would love to rough up a kid that they know is gay. It is that culture that the day of silence, in my opinion, is "speaking" out against... The purpose, in my mind, is to increase understanding of these fears...and while it may be larger in the organizer's minds...in my mind I see it as symbolizing the silence my friends endured for many years....with a lot of pain....and a lot of fear.
 
#83
#83
TennTradition said:
Good for you..I'm glad you do that. However, you know and I know that there are a lot of kids out there that would love to rough up a kid that they know is gay. It is that culture that the day of silence, in my opinion, is "speaking" out against... The purpose, in my mind, is to increase understanding of these fears...and while it may be larger in the organizer's minds...in my mind I see it as symbolizing the silence my friends endured for many years....with a lot of pain....and a lot of fear.
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I'm not opposed to teaching kids bigotry is wrong, I am opposed to them trying to make it an accepted lifestyle. Just because you may not agree with a lifestyle doesn't mean you want violence of any kind. I got into a lot of fights with black kids growing up, simply because they didn't like me cause I was white (for me). There was no day of silence. I get your point and in an ideal world that would be great, however as with most things there seems to be an agenda.
 
#84
#84
emainvol said:
First, that was not a shot at you.

Second, yes, I am going to argue that nothing that would have been used towards education has been spent in promoting this. This is a non-profit organization who promotes this program through volunteers inside the school. Think of the GLSEN as more of an extracurricular. This is no different than the FCA doing anything on a campus.
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If that were the case my view of this would be much lighter. However, I'm having a hard time reconciling that sentiment with threats of failing grades and some of the other things mentioned.

Bottom line, school time is taxpayer time and the point is education. In truth I don't care how benign GLSEN is on it's own time I don't think it's got any business mucking around our schools any more than any other number of political special interest groups.
 
#85
#85
hndog609 said:
If that were the case my view of this would be much lighter. However, I'm having a hard time reconciling that sentiment with threats of failing grades and some of the other things mentioned.

Bottom line, school time is taxpayer time and the point is education. In truth I don't care how benign GLSEN is on it's own time I don't think it's got any business mucking around our schools any more than any other number of political special interest groups.
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That's the problem, and I can't say it enough, the threats of failing grades, etc. are not the norm here. If they were we would be hearing about this on a much larger scale and not just from some third rate website
 
#86
#86
emainvol said:
That's the problem, and I can't say it enough, the threats of failing grades, etc. are not the norm here. If they were we would be hearing about this on a much larger scale and not just from some third rate website
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This isn't a personal shot at you, but that's exactly what I would expect a lib to say. All lins hate worldnetdaily, just like Fox News etc. Maybe if you would listen and read more from the "alternative media", you would see that this isn't a rare occurence like you think.
 
#87
#87
volsforever27 said:
This isn't a personal shot at you, but that's exactly what I would expect a lib to say. All lins hate worldnetdaily, just like Fox News etc. Maybe if you would listen and read more from the "alternative media", you would see that this isn't a rare occurence like you think.
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I personally hate any news medium that doesn't take the time to hire people who can actually write.
 
#90
#90
emainvol said:
Let me put it this way, WorldNetDaily makes NewCoach look like Shakespeare and Fox News look like The Progressive magazine.
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That's actually funny... anyways, enough arguing. LEt's unite against a common enemy. Slick Rick is posting again.
 
#91
#91
emainvol said:
That's the problem, and I can't say it enough, the threats of failing grades, etc. are not the norm here. If they were we would be hearing about this on a much larger scale and not just from some third rate website
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Tell you what, if every principal, teacher, administrator or whoever that tries to "push" this agenda by any threat of consequence gets their chops busted for it I can live with this. Still think it's a foolish thing for a school to have anything to do with but as long as any kid that didn't go along with the program could do so without any fear of being singled out* for it then I don't see a need to get too bent out of shape over it.

*By which I mean, if a teacher somewhere so much as implies something along the line that "any student that would talk on such a day is obviously a bigot/hater/redneck/whatever" that teacher gets suspended.
 
#93
#93
TennTradition said:
I believe that it is intended to be less about acceptance of the lifestyle and more about understanding the pain and difficulties those who live this lifestyle face. There are a lot of people out there who do not only choose not to accept their lifestyle...but they also choose not to accept the individuals as humans..and as a result do and say horrible things.
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It's school. You should just expect that to happen.

The homosexual pity party should get in line behind all the fat or nerdy kids of America as they've received far more abuse through the course of time. But then again, those groups aren't trying to push an agenda either.

Something like this should be left to the parents. Not the school.
 
#94
#94
hndog609 said:
To your second statement I'm not sure I get it. All education is for education's sake. If you are making a statement that there can be more to "learn" in a school environment than what is in the texts I get you. Still, and I can't imagine you'd really want to disagree with me on this, the POINT of school is in fact education for education's sake.
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I would say that publicly funded education should be guided and focused towards some kind of tangible goal. Whether this goal is for a certain percentage of the graduates to be accepted into tier one university, take a great job with a great starting salary, or be prepared to enter the blue-collar work force as a productive employee, each and every publicly funded school district should have a goal that is not so general as "we just want our kids to learn."

You can certainly teach a child anything and, technically, they are learning. Therefore, they are getting an education for education's sake.

As for the moment of silence in order to potentially cut down on hate-crimes/bullying against homosexuals...there could be something to it. You don't think there are studies out there that show probability is stronger that a person who identifies with the following two groups will end up as sexual deviants, rapists, and/or pedophiles:
1. Homosexuals
2. Outcasts
3. Children that have been sexually abused

So, maybe the acceptance of an individual who lives a homosexual lifestyle will actually cut down heinous crimes towards children?

As for me, though, I will just send my kids to be educated in the private sector.

hndog609 said:
Now, when you consider how badly our country appears to be doing in just that one main goal I think wasting one minute of school time or one tax dollar on some politically motivated special interest group (take your pick) is a bad idea.

And while you ponder this, take a moment to consider what ideas (perhaps some you would agree with) that would not stand a chance of getting such recognition.
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First, that time is not being better spent right now in the school system.

Next, I would absolutely love it if my child were exposed to a different politcally motivated special interest group on a weekly basis. Instead, most children are exposed to absolutely nothing political, in school, until they reach college. At that point, professors have an easy task of molding their brains and turning them into little disciples.

As for all of you who are saying that middle school children are too young and innocent to be exposed to these kind of ideas and that it is your job to teach them about sex. When exactly are you going to have that conversation? Four years after your sons first wet dream? Five years after your daughter begins to menstruate?

Puberty begins prior to middle school, folks. If your child does not understand why their bodies are changing, then, psychologically, you are not helping them out.

Children should probably be informed when they are ten or eleven about the physical changes that will occur when they are eleven, twelve, and thirteen. By twelve (sixth grade), they should probably not believe in any fairy tales about storks.

Keeping your children in the dark is not conducive to their mental, emotional, and physical development nor well-being.
 
#95
#95
bigtime said:
Emainvol are you actually from Tennessee? You should no this kind of day is not going to be widely accepted, its pure nonsense, I think its a shame that they try and teach children to be accepting of the homosexual lifestyle
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I think it's a shame people are raising kids to be bigots.
 
#96
#96
therealUT said:
I would say that publicly funded education should be guided and focused towards some kind of tangible goal. Whether this goal is for a certain percentage of the graduates to be accepted into tier one university, take a great job with a great starting salary, or be prepared to enter the blue-collar work force as a productive employee, each and every publicly funded school district should have a goal that is not so general as "we just want our kids to learn."

You can certainly teach a child anything and, technically, they are learning. Therefore, they are getting an education for education's sake.

As for the moment of silence in order to potentially cut down on hate-crimes/bullying against homosexuals...there could be something to it. You don't think there are studies out there that show probability is stronger that a person who identifies with the following two groups will end up as sexual deviants, rapists, and/or pedophiles:
1. Homosexuals
2. Outcasts
3. Children that have been sexually abused

So, maybe the acceptance of an individual who lives a homosexual lifestyle will actually cut down heinous crimes towards children?

As for me, though, I will just send my kids to be educated in the private sector.


First, that time is not being better spent right now in the school system.

Next, I would absolutely love it if my child were exposed to a different politcally motivated special interest group on a weekly basis. Instead, most children are exposed to absolutely nothing political, in school, until they reach college. At that point, professors have an easy task of molding their brains and turning them into little disciples.

As for all of you who are saying that middle school children are too young and innocent to be exposed to these kind of ideas and that it is your job to teach them about sex. When exactly are you going to have that conversation? Four years after your sons first wet dream? Five years after your daughter begins to menstruate?

Puberty begins prior to middle school, folks. If your child does not understand why their bodies are changing, then, psychologically, you are not helping them out.

Children should probably be informed when they are ten or eleven about the physical changes that will occur when they are eleven, twelve, and thirteen. By twelve (sixth grade), they should probably not believe in any fairy tales about storks.

Keeping your children in the dark is not conducive to their mental, emotional, and physical development nor well-being.
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Thanks for the reasoned and thoughtful response. I don't really agree with a lot of it (more in a second) but a good reply post.

OK, my biggest problem with your angle on this is you seem to be making one argument (rather adroitly too) while defending something that doesn't meet your own criteria. I had (and this was back in those less enlightened days mind you) classes where we covered this stuff. One class, Humanities I think it was called, was entirely devoted to gender roles, racial topics and yes, those "other" people. All these are realities of life and were discussed. History classes often at least touched on such topics since various laws and events often made such things entirely relevant. And that's just school. This idea that some still cling to that homosexuality is still some dark secret that needs brave souls to shine a light on it is crazy. The culture is awash with it. It's so accepted it's practically hip. From Will & Grace to Queer Eye to Elton John to Indigo Girls this lifestyle isn't under a rock, it's on a beach in plain view yelling at passers by that "Oh my God these mojitos are fabewlaaaaaas!" My point is, and I tried making this in an earlier post, that this silly day of silence doesn't contribute anything. It's a specifically sponsored politically motivated promotion for the agenda of a special interest group.

There are going to be people that will beat up and harass gays. Same type, if not same actual people, that will also harass fat people, poor people, nerdy people, white people, black people, yellow people, red people and so on and so on and scooby dooby dooby. There are some who would harass you for no other reason than you wearing your school colors, even if you are practically their clone in every other respect. From a right and wrong standpoint there is not one jot's difference between some gay guy getting his ass kicked for being gay than some Christian getting his ass kicked for being a Christian (or whatever). Having a "day of silence" for the former is, to me, a waste of school time and resources at best.
 
#97
#97
You are right, it definitely does not meet my criteria. However, my firm hope is that these kind of things flourish and multiply, until the day that there is a mandate among the electorate to get rid of the Dept. of Education and the public school system all together.
 
#98
#98
therealUT said:
You are right, it definitely does not meet my criteria. However, my firm hope is that these kind of things flourish and multiply, until the day that there is a mandate among the electorate to get rid of the Dept. of Education and the public school system all together.
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Well, I guess there is at least something to the "it's got to get bad enough to evoke change" idea but I still hate the short term casualties.
 
#99
#99
Instead of Gay Day we should start looking for a cure for gayness. We spend all this money on HIV and AIDS we could afford to divert some of this money to seeking the cure for this disease also.
 
#100
#100
hndog609 said:
Well, I guess there is at least something to the "it's got to get bad enough to evoke change" idea but I still hate the short term casualties.
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I am not sure I mind the casualties. The longer the public school systems declines, the less competition my offspring will eventually face as college applicants and upon entry into the job market. I really hope next week they show Birth of Nation at every public school across the US, followed by a Spike Lee joint the next week, then maybe Boys Don't Cry, leaving everyone feeling incredibly akward headed in to summer break.
 
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