Glaring issue on Offense, not QB?

[gnm53108]

running backs are average SEC running backs.

OL cannot move the football when your team has average running backs and WRs that have little experience. Then the QBs are average as well..

you get bad offense which is where we are. coaches can't fix average except by recruiting better talent which they are doing

Well...our WR's should improve then with coaching, practice, and game exp.

In your oppinion can our rb's improve also?

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

We desperately need a power hit them in the teeth kinda back. Lane's heart is there, but he's no Henry.

 

[oregonvol]

coaches can't fix average except by recruiting better talent which they are doing

So there's really no point to practice, game plans, or systems, right? I guess the coaches ought to just cancel practices and instead spend the time chatting up recruits since they can't possibly do anything to win (or even put up more than say, 6 yards in a half against Florida) with the talent they have. They inherited a much worse situation than Franklin did at Vanderbilt. We really can't put blame for anything that happens on them. YEAR ZERO.

 

[LWSVOL]

Well...our WR's should improve then with coaching, practice, and game exp.

In your oppinion can our rb's improve also?

they are what they are.. one is a senior and one is a junior.. I would be surprised if they improve at this late date in their college careers but anything is possible.

the issue at WRs is talent level more than anything. We are playing several kids that will e recruited over as time moves on..

 

[LWSVOL]

So there's really no point to practice, game plans, or systems, right? I guess the coaches ought to just cancel practices and instead spend the time chatting up recruits since they can't possibly do anything to win (or even put up more than say, 6 yards in a half against Florida) with the talent they have. They inherited a much worse situation than Franklin did at Vanderbilt. We really can't put blame for anything that happens on them. YEAR ZERO.

Oh, I think we can certainly question things that they do.

Worley's MO has been protecting the football and not turning it over. So seems a valid question is, would we have been better off at Florida with Worley rather than Peterman?? We might have had a halftime lead. Maybe not, but possible. Justin might have had same issues as Peterman, impossible to say. But still, coaching should be questioned about choice there..

in general, it is difficult to blame a staff when they play 20 plus freshman, 9 walk-ons and are implementing a new system. They are trying to change a losing culture that has been in the program for 5 years. So they do need a break at this juncture.

If in 2016 the same struggles are present with this staff then blame is going to be used a lot and likely be appropriate..

 

[BeecherVol]

running backs are average SEC running backs.

OL cannot move the football when your team has average running backs and WRs that have little experience. Then the QBs are average as well..

you get bad offense which is where we are. coaches can't fix average except by recruiting better talent which they are doing

Fix as in make it into a east contender no. Improve it yes.

This team should be playing better football in Nov which is where they can make some hay on the schedule.

 

[BeecherVol]

Oh, I think we can certainly question things that they do.

Worley's MO has been protecting the football and not turning it over. So seems a valid question is, would we have been better off at Florida with Worley rather than Peterman?? We might have had a halftime lead. Maybe not, but possible. Justin might have had same issues as Peterman, impossible to say. But still, coaching should be questioned about choice there..

in general, it is difficult to blame a staff when they play 20 plus freshman, 9 walk-ons and are implementing a new system. They are trying to change a losing culture that has been in the program for 5 years. So they do need a break at this juncture.

If in 2016 the same struggles are present with this staff then blame is going to be used a lot and likely be appropriate..

Hindsight is always 20/20 especially when bad goes to horrendous. I personally did not mind the swap with Peterman and Worely, it shows your coach is willing to give somebody a shot to make the team better. He obviously felt like it was worth the chance to try and give the offense a jump start.
Sometimes kids just play a whole lot better than they practice. ( I have come to understand this as a coach and former player myself) In this case it did not work out that way.

JMO, but I think Jones feels like Worely (short of some dramatic improvement) will not be his QB next year.

His first huge obstacle is developing the 2 young QBs. If that does not happen he will be in trouble before 2016.

 

[LWSVOL]

Hindsight is always 20/20 especially when bad goes to horrendous. I personally did not mind the swap with Peterman and Worely, it shows your coach is willing to give somebody a shot to make the team better. He obviously felt like it was worth the chance to try and give the offense a jump start.
Sometimes kids just play a whole lot better than they practice. ( I have come to understand this as a coach and former player myself) In this case it did not work out that way.

JMO, but I think Jones feels like Worely (short of some dramatic improvement) will not be his QB next year.

His first huge obstacle is developing the 2 young QBs. If that does not happen he will be in trouble before 2016.

Oh, I don't disagree with what you say either. The staff certainly knew some things in naming Peterman that none of us have insight to. that is as it should be.

still doesn't mean moves can't be questioned.

My gut feeling is, staff might determine none of these QBs are capable of running the offense they would prefer to execute. If so, would not be shocked at a dramatic change in philosophy in the spring. we will see

 

[oregonvol]

Oh, I think we can certainly question things that they do.

Worley's MO has been protecting the football and not turning it over. So seems a valid question is, would we have been better off at Florida with Worley rather than Peterman?? We might have had a halftime lead. Maybe not, but possible. Justin might have had same issues as Peterman, impossible to say. But still, coaching should be questioned about choice there..

in general, it is difficult to blame a staff when they play 20 plus freshman, 9 walk-ons and are implementing a new system. They are trying to change a losing culture that has been in the program for 5 years. So they do need a break at this juncture.

If in 2016 the same struggles are present with this staff then blame is going to be used a lot and likely be appropriate..

My goodness, so you're giving them 3 whole seasons before you are going to hold them accountable. Brilliant! (by that logic, I guess Dooley would still be here...)

When is the last time a coach failed for 3 years at a job and then finally succeeded? How far back do you have to go to find an example?

 

[LWSVOL]

My goodness, so you're giving them 3 whole seasons before you are going to hold them accountable. Brilliant! (by that logic, I guess Dooley would still be here...)

When is the last time a coach failed for 3 years at a job and then finally succeeded? How far back do you have to go to find an example?

what is failure and what is success? people have different interpretations.

I promise you this if Jones is fired after 3 years the next coach will not be successful either. we will be in that cycle of changing ever 3-4 years for a long, long time..

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

I love the mentality that some have of being four games in and pretty much calling the staff failures.
"But, but, but there was a few questionable calls and moves they made!"
I dgaf who the coach is, people will question them at some point.
"But, but, but Butch has never coached in the SEC!"
Every coach in the SEC, even Nick Saban, at one point had never coached in the SEC.
"But, but, but we are loaded with talent from Dooley's recruiting classes! They are just not being given a good game plan!"
You are delusional or just plain lying to yourself.
I am not saying that for sure Butch is going to turn it around or that we should give him a decade to try. I'm just saying to the ones that are just another loss or two from screaming for his head, your stupid is showing.

 

[oregonvol]

what is failure and what is success? people have different interpretations.

I promise you this if Jones is fired after 3 years the next coach will not be successful either. we will be in that cycle of changing ever 3-4 years for a long, long time..

Failure is not improving the team. Failure is continuing to look inept against any remotely good team you face. Failure is a lack of significant wins.

Your "promise" makes no sense. Why would the next coach have a better chance of success if the previous coach were allowed to fail longer? Stability only matters if you're improving.

But, since we're making promises, it's pretty much a sure bet that if Butch Jones doesn't get a major signature win this year or next, he's not going to win here in the long run either. This is the 21st century. In modern day college football, coaches who can't turn a program around quickly, can't do it at all.

 

[oregonvol]

I love the mentality that some have of being four games in and pretty much calling the staff failures.
"But, but, but there was a few questionable calls and moves they made!"
I dgaf who the coach is, people will question them at some point.
"But, but, but Butch has never coached in the SEC!"
Every coach in the SEC, even Nick Saban, at one point had never coached in the SEC.
"But, but, but we are loaded with talent from Dooley's recruiting classes! They are just not being given a good game plan!"
You are delusional or just plain lying to yourself.
I am not saying that for sure Butch is going to turn it around or that we should give him a decade to try. I'm just saying to the ones that are just another loss or two from screaming for his head, your stupid is showing.

I assume you're addressing my post, while at the same time trying to put words in my mouth to make your argument sound stronger, right?

Ah, if only straw men could play football, we'd be loaded every year...

To be clear, I'm not screaming for his head or concluding anything about whether or not he is a failure. That would be utterly premature.

I'm simply astounded by those who have already concluded, after the same 4 games, that it will probably be 2016 before he can expected to be any good and assume the rest of us should be fine with that.

 

[Sudden Impact]

I love the mentality that some have of being four games in and pretty much calling the staff failures.
"But, but, but there was a few questionable calls and moves they made!"
I dgaf who the coach is, people will question them at some point.
"But, but, but Butch has never coached in the SEC!"
Every coach in the SEC, even Nick Saban, at one point had never coached in the SEC.
"But, but, but we are loaded with talent from Dooley's recruiting classes! They are just not being given a good game plan!"
You are delusional or just plain lying to yourself.
I am not saying that for sure Butch is going to turn it around or that we should give him a decade to try. I'm just saying to the ones that are just another loss or two from screaming for his head, your stupid is showing.

You have been around here for a while and you got to know that this is just the way things are.

Statements are blown out of proportion due to sarcasm or their are some that just love drama.

Then the occasional troll slips into the back door and spins a thread in a negative light and like idiots some of us chase the rabbit down the hole.

The others you are never going to please but they want everyone to agree with their theory or BS so they keep things stirred up.

What's funny is most will end up contradicting themselves within 5 posts....

This thread shows a few excellent examples of exaggeration and drama. Reason being no matter how dumb the statement is, the rule for some is if you write you own it and posters are not willing to admit they are wrong so they viciously defend it like A$$holes.

When it is a losing situation then the grammar police and spell check statements start kicking into gear.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

I assume you're addressing my post, while at the same time trying to put words in my mouth to make your argument sound stronger, right?

Ah, if only straw men could play football, we'd be loaded every year...

To be clear, I'm not screaming for his head or concluding anything about whether or not he is a failure. That would be utterly premature.

I'm simply astounded by those who have already concluded, after the same 4 games, that it will probably be 2016 before he can expected to be any good and assume the rest of us should be fine with that.

My post wasn't necessarily aimed at you but you seemed to try it on and found that the shoe fit.
My questions to you,since you sort of called me out is, what would you call a signature win?
Do you honestly think that Butch has the horses to win against that team?

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

You have been around here for a while and you got to know that this is just the way things are.

Statements are blown out of proportion due to sarcasm or their are some that just love drama.

Then the occasional troll slips into the back door and spins a thread in a negative light and like idiots some of us chase the rabbit down the hole.

The others you are never going to please but they want everyone to agree with their theory or BS so they keep things stirred up.

What's funny is most will end up contradicting themselves within 5 posts....

This thread shows a few excellent examples of exaggeration and drama. Reason being no matter how dumb the statement is, the rule for some is if you write you own it and posters are not willing to admit they are wrong so they viciously defend it like A$$holes.

When it is a losing situation then the grammar police and spell check statements start kicking into gear.

But damn I love it here. Lol

 

[LWSVOL]

Failure is not improving the team. Failure is continuing to look inept against any remotely good team you face. Failure is a lack of significant wins.

Your "promise" makes no sense. Why would the next coach have a better chance of success if the previous coach were allowed to fail longer? Stability only matters if you're improving.

But, since we're making promises, it's pretty much a sure bet that if Butch Jones doesn't get a major signature win this year or next, he's not going to win here in the long run either. This is the 21st century. In modern day college football, coaches who can't turn a program around quickly, can't do it at all.

I've already seen improvement. they have continued to compete hard the last two weeks in thoe losses.. that is improvement over the last 3 years because the players gave up..

If they do have to hire someone the name will not be has well known as Butch Jones and he was like 5th choice this go around.. every hire when you are constantly changing is more risky..

just my opinion

 

[LWSVOL]

My post wasn't necessarily aimed at you but you seemed to try it on and found that the shoe fit.
My questions to you,since you sort of called me out is, what would you call a signature win?
Do you honestly think that Butch has the horses to win against that team?

signature win(s) this year is winning 3 of 4 games in November. if he can do that, certainly not a sure thing, then he has signature wins on resume, IMO

those are talent levels we can slip up on and beat and is something we have struggled with lately..

the 3 teams we will see in October are all better than the team we played this past Saturday, much better. Florida was the worse Florida team I've seen since 70s

 

[knoxchief]

We only have about 10 plays that we run seems like. The only one for the TE is on the goaline. Plus with our QB, WR, O Line issues I don't think the main problem is bc were not utilizing a TE more.[/QUOTE

Word is we might recruit the infamous "Win Won Soon" to be TE.

 

[Sudden Impact]

signature win(s) this year is winning 3 of 4 games in November. if he can do that, certainly not a sure thing, then he has signature wins on resume, IMO

those are talent levels we can slip up on and beat and is something we have struggled with lately..

the 3 teams we will see in October are all better than the team we played this past Saturday, much better. Florida was the worse Florida team I've seen since 70s

You can usually tell when FL teams are not up to speed by their fans reaction. I agree on the worst team in many years. 3 out 4 in November I hope we go 4 out of 4 and think we can.

I truly believe that MO will be so banged up by the time they see us. Brutal 5 game stretch and if we catch USC right after a bye we coud have momentum.

 

[oregonvol]

My post wasn't necessarily aimed at you but you seemed to try it on and found that the shoe fit.
My questions to you,since you sort of called me out is, what would you call a signature win?
Do you honestly think that Butch has the horses to win against that team?

Against what team? A signature win or big win is a win against a legitimate quality rival.

In terms of if he has the horses, yeah, he's got the horses to keep games close against most everyone (heck if Franklin could keep all those games within a touchdown his first year, lord knows Butch Jones has less of a talent gap than he had). Then, maybe you get a break.

The thing is, you got a fair share of breaks in the Florida game. And you gave them right back. I can't believe that with good coaching you can't get at least average quarterback play out of one of the guys you've got. And I can't believe that, with good coaching, your defense can't contain an opposing QB with no experience or make an open field tackle.

I expected to be 2-2 now. That's no shock to anyone. What's scary to me is we aren't really making the teams beat us, by having a solid game plan or just by playing disciplined, mistake-free football. What's scary is that we are getting breaks and we're still beating ourselves.

 

[vol-un-tear]

Got a couple of 4* TE's coming in. I hope to use what we have now though. GBO!!!