Glenn Beck gets heckled at a Hitchcock film, others say he didn't, he cries...

#201
#201
MUR73 said:
The same UN that sat on its hands while Saddam continuly violated its sanctions and commited genocide against his own people, thus the sanction were HIS fault. The UN is a very trustworthy bunch, i would say.
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Madeline Albright didn't deny the numbers.

I like how you took any US accountability out of the equation. That's nice.
 
#203
#203
DinkinFlicka said:
I said that his commentary is viciously divisive and shows like his are detrimental in times like these. If you want to try and argue against that instead of expecting a plethora of youtube links exhibiting his hate speech (which is not worth my time to do... just search "glenn beck hate" on google/youtube), my ears are open.

I never said the loon instigated riots in the street. He just emboldens or even creates more reasons for the two parties to hate each other.
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I am smart enough and also have seen enough of his shows, and others edited bits and pieces too, to know that context matters, not soundbites. can you say the same?
 
#204
#204
nbakerld said:
Madeline Albright didn't deny the numbers.

I like how you took any US accountability out of the equation. That's nice.
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Not my intent, but It would be nice to not have the US blamed for every wrong in the world. and rememeber whether or not you agree with the sanctions, why were they put in place? And who has the foresight to know how many others would have suffered or died at Saddams hands if he was left in place. I am jusgt saying its not soo Black and White as Bush haters suggest although i have alot of doubts about the whole situation myself.
 
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#205
#205
nbakerld said:
OK. So how many was it?
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zero Iraqis died as a result of the UN's Oil for Food Program.

quite a few died as a result of Saddam Hussein being allowed to remain in power after Operation Desert Shield and the Bush administration's abandonment of the rebellious Kurdish minority in northern Iraq.

If you want someone to blame, look to France and Germany who had under the table deals with Saddam in direct violation of the sanctions.
 
#206
#206
MUR73 said:
Not my intent, but It would be nice to not have the US blamed for every wrong in the world. and rememeber whether or not you agree with the sanctions, why were they put in place?
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It doesn't matter to me. Sanctions are the worst foreign policy strategy in the history of foreign policy. They do almost nothing to weaken the ruling class and tend to severely hurt the masses (like in Iraq).

Also it's a surefire way to make an enemy (or make an enemy more bitter). Like Bastiat said, "when goods do not cross borders, soldiers will". It's no surprise that we went to war with Iraq again 12 years after the sanctions.

Sanctions are never justified, IMO.
 
#207
#207
MG1968 said:
zero Iraqis died as a result of the UN's Oil for Food Program.

quite a few died as a result of Saddam Hussein being allowed to remain in power after Operation Desert Shield and the Bush administration's abandonment of the rebellious Kurdish minority in northern Iraq.

If you want someone to blame, look to France and Germany who had under the table deals with Saddam in direct violation of the sanctions.
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Give me a break. You are right. It's everyone else. America isn't capable of making mistakes.
 
#208
#208
nbakerld said:
It doesn't matter to me. Sanctions are the worst foreign policy strategy in the history of foreign policy. They do almost nothing to weaken the ruling class and tend to severely hurt the masses (like in Iraq).

Also it's a surefire way to make an enemy (or make an enemy more bitter). Like Bastiat said, "when goods do not cross borders, soldiers will". It's no surprise that we went to war with Iraq again 12 years after the sanctions.

Sanctions are never justified, IMO.
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While i don't totally agree with you, you do make a valid point. Most in power still get there needs meet while it makes it harder for the masses to get the same.
 
#210
#210
MUR73 said:
While i don't totally agree with you, you do make a valid point. Most in power still get there needs meet while it makes it harder for the masses to get the same.
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We've been sanctioning Cuba forever. Nothing has changed. Europe sanctioned Germany, and they turned to Hitler and lashed out. We sanctioned Japan, and they attacked us at Pearl Harbor. It's a losing strategy.
 
#211
#211
nbakerld said:
Give me a break. You are right. It's everyone else. America isn't capable of making mistakes.
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Sure we make mistakes but the world looks to us to fix these extremely complexes messes and their isn't a neat, easy fix to do it. We are criticised by one side or another whether we act or not. This sounds awful, but sometimes you got to break some eggs to make a cake.
 
#212
#212
MUR73 said:
Sure we make mistakes but the world looks to us to fix these extremely complexes messes and their isn't a neat, easy fix to do it. We are criticised by one side or another whether we act or not. This sounds awful, but sometimes you got to break some eggs to make a cake.
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The problem is the Iraq sanctions are one of the first things terrorists point to in justification for their acts against the West. Stuff like this kills Iraqi children and puts American innocents in danger as well. It's a losing strategy.
 
#213
#213
nbakerld said:
The problem is the Iraq sanctions are one of the first things terrorists point to in justification for their acts against the West. Stuff like this kills Iraqi children and puts American innocents in danger as well. It's a losing strategy.
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really?
 
#214
#214
MUR73 said:
While i don't totally agree with you, you do make a valid point. Most in power still get there needs meet while it makes it harder for the masses to get the same.
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North Korea is a prime example of this point. The army and Kim Jong Il's people get everything while the general populace starves.
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#215
#215
nbakerld said:
The problem is the Iraq sanctions are one of the first things terrorists point to in justification for their acts against the West. Stuff like this kills Iraqi children and puts American innocents in danger as well. It's a losing strategy.
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Come on man, you know they really don't need a reason, they use any excuse as a reason to kill the infidels(Us). I agree that it can hurt the innocent people by rresticting goods in , but i can't agree with you that it's the reason the hate us, we all know their belief system is why they hate us.
 
#216
#216
Decided to drop by and check on the thread. Nice derailment!

Also noticed the GBTV banner ad at the top of the page.
 
#217
#217
MG1968 said:
really?
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Yes. Chalmers Johnson and Michael Scheuer (both worked for the CIA) substantiate this. "Blowback" was a term invented by the CIA to describe terrorist retaliation for western interference in the ME.
 
#218
#218
MUR73 said:
Come on man, you know they really don't need a reason, they use any excuse as a reason to kill the infidels(Us). I agree that it can hurt the innocent people by rresticting goods in , but i can't agree with you that it's the reason the hate us, we all know their belief system is why they hate us.
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I agree this applies to the hardcore jihadists, but it can help influence those that are on the fence so to speak.
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#219
#219
MUR73 said:
Come on man, you know they really don't need a reason, they use any excuse as a reason to kill the infidels(Us). I agree that it can hurt the innocent people by rresticting goods in , but i can't agree with you that it's the reason the hate us, we all know their belief system is why they hate us.
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It's weird how they didn't find any old excuse until we started f***ing around in Iran in the 1950s. I'll tell you right now, nobody in the CIA thinks they attack us because we are infidels. Scheuer was the head of the CIA's Bin Laden unit and he says the idea that they attack us for our freedoms, or because we our infidels is absurd. "Infidel" is just rhetoric guys like Osama use to rally the troops. There would be no rallying of troops against America if there were no ME intervention.
 
#220
#220
nbakerld said:
It's weird how they didn't find any old excuse until we started f***ing around in Iran in the 1950s. I'll tell you right now, nobody in the CIA thinks they attack us because we are infidels. Scheuer was the head of the CIA's Bin Laden unit and he says the idea that they attack us for our freedoms, or because we our infidels is absurd. "Infidel" is just rhetoric guys like Osama use to rally the troops. There would be no rallying of troops against America if there were no ME intervention.
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is supporting Israel considered "intervention"?
 
#221
#221
MG1968 said:
is supporting Israel considered "intervention"?
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I'm sure it is. But the thing that really kicked it off was the CIA intervention in Iran where they propped up a dictator who would be friendlier to western agenda and tyrannical to the Iranian people. When they overthrew him, they lashed out against the US, thus we had the Iranian hostage crisis. That was really the start of it all.
 
#223
#223
nbakerld said:
I'm sure it is. But the thing that really kicked it off was the CIA intervention in Iran where they propped up a dictator who would be friendlier to western agenda and tyrannical to the Iranian people. When they overthrew him, they lashed out against the US, thus we had the Iranian hostage crisis. That was really the start of it all.
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Do you see any correlation to this event in the 1950's to the dramatic increase for America's demand for oil? Was that a major factor for the US wanting friendlier leaders in power?
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#224
#224
JayVols said:
Do you see any correlation to this event in the 1950's to the dramatic increase for America's demand for oil? Was that a major factor for the US wanting friendlier leaders in power?
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It's possible. I can't remember what the reasoning for installing the Shah was. I've heard the opinions of people better informed on the matter, but do not recall off the top of my head.
 
#225
#225
nbakerld said:
It's possible. I can't remember what the reasoning for installing the Shah was. I've heard the opinions of people better informed on the matter, but do not recall off the top of my head.
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I'm no expert either, but did we really care about the ME to this degree before our appetite for oil became gluttonous?
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