Got 99 problems and a Butch is one

#152
#152
KingtUT said:
Like I said, better players make better coaches.
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Better coaches... are far more likely to make better players. All the talent in the world is worthless if not coached and used to its potential. Even moderately talented players can perform at a very high level if well coached and used properly.
 
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#154
#154
peppervol said:
Coaching credit was not the question; talent level of VU vs. talent level of UT was the point. Frankly, you sound like some jilted sophmore prom queen, dude. Be patient, for Christ sake.
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You do realize that Vandy played the entire fourth quarter without any of their starting corners or safeties, right? I guess then you are saying that their seconds are more talented than out firsts? Somehow I doubt that.
 
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#155
#155
GLDunlap said:
LOl you amuse me with your name calling. When short on facts it's the next best thing. Jancek has never "been there" as a coordinator. He should have immediately known that wasn't a stop.

Actually I chose Jancek's celebrating a "non stop" because it occured in the middle of a 92 yard game winning drive by the most anemic offense short of our's and Florida's in the SEC.
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WoW!!!!! You have an autographed ball (or at least a picture of one) - I will put my money on you in this bUTch slapping fight.
 
#156
#156
sjt18 said:
Better coaches... are far more likely to make better players. All the talent in the world is worthless if not coached and used to its potential. Even moderately talented players can perform at a very high level if well coached and used properly.
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You seem to be of the opinion that it all the coaches fault. I'm of the opinion that BJ shares some of the blame but a lot of it falls on the players too. Guess we will slightly disagree.

One question, what do you think about Dan McCullers?
 
#157
#157
KingtUT said:
You seem to be of the opinion that it all the coaches fault.
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No. I just find myself responding much more to those who only blame "talent" and believe that highly ranked recruiting classes will fix coaching deficiencies.

I'm of the opinion that BJ shares some of the blame but a lot of it falls on the players too. Guess we will slightly disagree.
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I think the coaches underperformed with a roster that should have produced at least 6 wins but could have won 7 with the type of "elite" coaching it will take for UT to win and compete for championships in the SEC.

I am not ready to write the coaches off yet... but they have done nothing this year from a coaching standpoint but make me more skeptical than I was before.

Recruiting has been very good so far... if they can hold the class together. But that only gets UT to about where Vandy is now without great coaching. If the goal is 8 or 9 wins and finishing in the top half of the SECE year after year... then maybe the coaching is OK. But I don't think that is how that goes... anything that stagnates, dies. Any UT coach that plateaus at that level will lose the ability to get great OOS recruits... and will sink.

One question, what do you think about Dan McCullers?
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I think Jones was 100% correct... but maybe unnecessarily so. As McCullers went, so went UT's D. He should have been benched weeks ago IMHO. He routinely got pushed off the LOS and seldom got any kind of push. He could have been a great disrupter... and might as well have been a squad team player much of the time.

If nothing else, they could have slid Walls or Miller inside to improve the interior speed.

It has occurred to me several times that some players including McCullers continued to play to avoid hurting their draft prospects. I hope that didn't factor in... but I have struggled to understand why McCullers continued to play and why the back ups on the OL didn't get more time considering some lackluster effort at times.
 
#158
#158
How do you break down each quote and respond to it like you do?

A lot of people consider McCullers to be talented, I don't. He's nothing more than someone who takes up space. There's a reason he was in juco at his size, he's a prime example of someone a lot of people think has talent but when you really get down to it, he doesn't. Because of his size, most consider him to be talented but its not the case. The talent level on this team is exaggerated and so is the greatness of this staff. Not saying they can't be good, but as for now they are more hype than substance. Like I said though, the coaches will automatically get better with better players.
 
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#159
#159
peppervol said:
Vanderbilt does not have more talent than UT?? Let's start with Jordan Matthews ( top 15 NFL pick) and an entire defensive secondary that ALL know where to be and can ALL tackle. Joe Townsend at center is no slouch, either. I'm leaving several out here. This is, also, James Franklin's 3rd year. Let's all have this same discussion at the end of Butch Jones's 3rd year. CBJ and staff are trying to make "chicken salad out of chicken .....). I'm as frustrated as anybody, but, we gotta be fair here, my friends.
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Vandys secondary was out of the game by halftime. Good try tho.
 
#163
#163
Joe Vols said:
This coaching staff is going to make you eat your words in the future. We do not have a team full of players giving it their all on the field right now, that is the problem. Butch knows this, and that is why we are going to sign over 30 in this class. In one more year this entire team will Butch Jones recruits, except for a special few.
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I actually like the coaching staff outside of Jancek being DC. I'm a Vol fan through and through so nothing would make me more happy then for Jancek to prove me wrong. I agree talent will help but I just don't see Jancek matching wits with the better OC's in this league. Time will tell.
 
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#164
#164
State of the Vols said:
WoW!!!!! You have an autographed ball (or at least a picture of one) - I will put my money on you in this bUTch slapping fight.
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Sarcasm I guess but if you knew the history of the ball you might understand why it's my avi.

btw, love your avatar. Very creative
 
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#165
#165
KingtUT said:
How do you break down each quote and respond to it like you do?
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Hit "quote" under the post. Use [+quote+] to start quoting a section and [+/+quote+] to end the quoted section. (all without the addition symbols.

The talent level on this team is exaggerated and so is the greatness of this staff.
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If you are saying exaggerated to the down side then I'd say you are right. I am hoping that what looks like bad coaching right now is just dogged discipline to process. IOW's, it could be he is determined to do it a certain way and avoided shortcuts that could have made things look better, sooner. I find that hard to swallow... but it is one of the few "hopes" I can find in the staff's performance so far.

Not saying they can't be good, but as for now they are more hype than substance. Like I said though, the coaches will automatically get better with better players.
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But they don't. Les Miles with this roster probably does even worse as does Richt more than likely. Muschamp might have figured out a way to lose to APSU.

Great coaches are great coaches and get the best out of their talent whether that roster is loaded with elite talent or is the least talented roster in the league. Jones can hopefully become a great coach... but he didn't show it this year.
 
#166
#166
I feel about this whole staff the way I felt about Clawson after his only season as OC. He failed pretty badly but he looked like a guy who might be able to get better with time. If this staff does not improve then I think they will have a similar ending in a couple of years.
 
#167
#167
peppervol said:
Vanderbilt does not have more talent than UT?? Let's start with Jordan Matthews ( top 15 NFL pick)
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Matthews is slow. If he gets drafted I doubt his career lasts very long.
and an entire defensive secondary that ALL know where to be and can ALL tackle.
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That is... uh... coaching, not talent.

Joe Townsend at center is no slouch, either. I'm leaving several out here. This is, also, James Franklin's 3rd year. Let's all have this same discussion at the end of Butch Jones's 3rd year. CBJ and staff are trying to make "chicken salad out of chicken .....). I'm as frustrated as anybody, but, we gotta be fair here, my friends.
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Franklin took over a program that had just suffered two consecutive 2 win seasons. They were by no stretch loaded with talent or anything of the sort. He took that team to a bowl in his first season. He lost 2 games by more than 7 points... One to national champ Bama and once to 11-2 USCe.

I don't particularly like the guy... but that's coaching. That's taking the talent on hand and getting the most out of it.

Vandy shouldn't have been in the game with UT this past Saturday. It should have been a laugher by the half... and Franklin KNEW IT. Why do you think HE was playing so conservative? Imagine his surprise when Jones with the better roster did the same thing in return.
 
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#168
#168
State of the Vols said:
You do realize that Vandy played the entire fourth quarter without any of their starting corners or safeties, right? I guess then you are saying that their seconds are more talented than out firsts? Somehow I doubt that.
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Bad guess, State. I was comparing VU starting 22 vs UT starting 22. Next.
 
#171
#171
peppervol said:
Their starting 22 vs. our starting 22. Next.
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I am not sure how that works - do we count injuries? Can we consider Bray on our team, since he coulda come back? What about CP? I always thought you had to judge a team based on what it could put on the field, but you have opened a whole new realm of talent evaluation! Thanks for that. :crazy:
 
#172
#172
sjt18 said:
Matthews is slow. If he gets drafted I doubt his career lasts very long. That is... uh... coaching, not talent.

Franklin took over a program that had just suffered two consecutive 2 win seasons. They were by no stretch loaded with talent or anything of the sort. He took that team to a bowl in his first season. He lost 2 games by more than 7 points... One to national champ Bama and once to 11-2 USCe.

I don't particularly like the guy... but that's coaching. That's taking the talent on hand and getting the most out of it.

Vandy shouldn't have been in the game with UT this past Saturday. It should have been a laugher by the half... and Franklin KNEW IT. Why do you think HE was playing so conservative? Imagine his surprise when Jones with the better roster did the same thing in return.[/QUOTE "If he gets drafted....." Did you really post that about Jordan Matthews? What color is the sky in your world, dude? Nah, on second thought, please don't struggle with an attempt to answer; just go back to sleep. Nite, nite.
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#173
#173
State of the Vols said:
I am not sure how that works - do we count injuries? Can we consider Bray on our team, since he coulda come back? What about CP? I always thought you had to judge a team based on what it could put on the field, but you have opened a whole new realm of talent evaluation! Thanks for that. :crazy:
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Pretty convoluted, State, but you're quite welcome.
 
#175
#175
KingtUT said:
I know some of the issues are out of his control but there are some that he has to take the blame for. With two weeks to prepare for this game we all should've expected more.
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I agree, I was disappointed with the performance as well. I did expect much more out of this team Saturday night. It was obvious they didn't trust Dobbs to throw the ball vertically down the field. The offense was the worst it's been in a long time.
 
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