great day for wisconsin

#51
#51
lawgator1 said:
The same thing happens in awarding defense contracts and oil leases, etc. Don't make it sound as if the unions are the only mechanism for politicians to route public money back to themselves.
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Two wrongs don't make a right and the examples you cite are nowhere near as direct. There is no competition for the public sector unions. They are paid directly by the tax payers and their mandatory dues are likewise paid directly by the tax payers.
 
#52
#52
droski said:
completely agree. it's taking the easy way out since no one wants to admit that maybe our police and fire ARE overpaid since they save our lives. they knew it wouldn't look good politically, but if they were really serious about cutting spending those groups (and the prison guards) would be at the top of the list to go after.
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It's still going to be interesting for a while. I'm going to pop some corn and watch the show.
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#53
#53
droski said:
even if true i'm not sure i'm seeing the relavance?
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volinbham said:
Two wrongs don't make a right and the examples you cite are nowhere near as direct. There is no competition for the public sector unions. They are paid directly by the tax payers and their mandatory dues are likewise paid directly by the tax payers.
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I am simply making the point that the theory that its okay to bust the unions because they funnel taxpayer money back into the political process is a bogus reason. Its not that it benefits politicians generally that is the problem in the eyes of the GOP. Its that it benefits Democrats. On the flip side, the GOP benefits from awarding of certain contracts and certain programs by the people getting that donating to their campaigns.

So let's not get all high and mighty that, hey, we are just preventing corruption of the process. Its who benefits that is the problem for the GOP.
 
#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
I am simply making the point that the theory that its okay to bust the unions because they funnel taxpayer money back into the political process is a bogus reason. Its not that it benefits politicians generally that is the problem in the eyes of the GOP. Its that it benefits Democrats. On the flip side, the GOP benefits from awarding of certain contracts and certain programs by the people getting that donating to their campaigns.

So let's not get all high and mighty that, hey, we are just preventing corruption of the process. Its who benefits that is the problem for the GOP.
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There is a difference though - it is a direct transfer of tax payer dollars. There are no competing interests.

I'd be against it even if union contributions went 95% to Rs instead of Ds
 
#55
#55
volinbham said:
There is a difference though - it is a direct transfer of tax payer dollars. There are no competing interests.

I'd be against it even if union contributions went 95% to Rs instead of Ds
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I guess my biggest problem with the Wisconsin model is that membership is mandatory. I don't mind voluntary membership, but a requirement? I'm not as keen on that.
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#56
#56
lawgator1 said:
I am simply making the point that the theory that its okay to bust the unions because they funnel taxpayer money back into the political process is a bogus reason. Its not that it benefits politicians generally that is the problem in the eyes of the GOP. Its that it benefits Democrats. On the flip side, the GOP benefits from awarding of certain contracts and certain programs by the people getting that donating to their campaigns.

So let's not get all high and mighty that, hey, we are just preventing corruption of the process. Its who benefits that is the problem for the GOP.
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i want to bust them because they are massively overpaid and we can't afford it. obama handing contracts to boeing while not my favorite thing on earth, doesnt' have as big of an effect on the future of this country.
 
#57
#57
the ever tolerant left

The following is the unedited email:

Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes
will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks. Please explain
to them that this is because if we get rid of you and your families then it
will save the rights of 300,000 people and also be able to close the deficit
that you have created. I hope you have a good time in hell. Read below for
more information on possible scenarios in which you will die.
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Capitol Chaos: Lawmakers Get Death Threats | Newsradio 620 - Milwaukee, Wisconsin News, Talk, Sports, Weather | Local Headlines
 
#58
#58
Funny how all that "call for civility" has disappeared. Even Jesse Jackson today said the actions of the protestors (busting windows, barring people in their offices, etc.) was justified because their cause was moral and they had no other options.

The double standard is staggering.
 
#59
#59
it's only civil until you lose. After that you hunt down the ignorant politicians and, as shown in the email above, kill their families
 
#61
#61
lawgator1 said:
One wacko does not represent "the ever tolerant left," just as the Westboro Baptist Church does not represent all of Christianity.
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:eek:lol:

Anyway, from the article

MADISON - The State Department of Justice confirms that it is investigating several death threats against a number of lawmakers in response to the legislature's move to strip employees of many collective bargaining rights.
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#62
#62
lawgator1 said:
One wacko does not represent "the ever tolerant left," just as the Westboro Baptist Church does not represent all of Christianity.
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I don't think there are many Christians that would consider what WBC does as Christian. Has anyone on here actually defended them?
 
#63
#63
azVolFan said:
I don't think there are many Christians that would consider what WBC does as Christian. Has anyone on here actually defended them?
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And I don't think that many of the protestors would say they endorse emailing death threats as a legitimate means to oppose the Wisconsin bill, either.
 
#64
#64
lawgator1 said:
And I don't think that many of the protestors would say they endorse emailing death threats as a legitimate means to oppose the Wisconsin bill, either.
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there is a sizable % that do. I have no stats or data to back up my claims but I'm positive this is the case. Anyone who doesn't see it that way is not being honest with themselves
 
#65
#65
utvolpj said:
there is a sizable % that do. I have no stats or data to back up my claims but I'm positive this is the case. Anyone who doesn't see it that way is not being honest with themselves
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I get it, but weak comparison.
 
#66
#66
not really. This is not a peaceful protest anymore so to assume only one nut has the thought in his mind is probably a mistake. There's also a history of the unions using violence isn't there?
 
#67
#67
utvolpj said:
not really. This is not a peaceful protest anymore so to assume only one nut has the thought in his mind is probably a mistake. There's also a history of the unions using violence isn't there?
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They've turned violent? How so?
 
#68
#68
lawgator1 said:
They've turned violent? How so?
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The unions? I would say there's plenty on the subject. If you're talking about the protesters then you will note I said "not a peaceful protest" and did not say they were violent yet. However the emails do show it's a possibility
 
#69
#69
lawgator1 said:
One wacko does not represent "the ever tolerant left," just as the Westboro Baptist Church does not represent all of Christianity.
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the issue is that the protestors have been as uncivil as can be. hitting a Fox reporter, making all sorts of Nazi claims, physical property damage, intimidation, death threats and not one peep about civilty.

it is a double standard plain and simple.
 
#73
#73
azVolFan said:
Good.

Does anyone watch MSNBC? Have they mentioned it?

Volatile - You don't watch TV much (right?) so I assume you wouldn't know.
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Only ESPN at work with no sound. So I have no clue. I'd be willing to bet that it's all over Fox and not on MSNBC.
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#74
#74
volinbham said:
the issue is that the protestors have been as uncivil as can be. hitting a Fox reporter, making all sorts of Nazi claims, physical property damage, intimidation, death threats and not one peep about civilty.

it is a double standard plain and simple.
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You mean like the GOP state senator who called the protestors a bunch of slobs?

I think the Nazi comparison just makes people roll their eyes at this point, its played out.

Not sure what physical damage they did. I know there was an issue about the police not letting people come back in when they left, so you ended up with a bunch that decided to basically live in the building for fear that going home for a day would mean they could not exercise their rights.

Hitting a Fox reporter? I would like to see what really happened there and why, the circumstances, etc.

Who have they intimidated? Seems to me that Walker over time has become more intransigent, not less so.
 
#75
#75
lawgator1 said:
And I don't think that many of the protestors would say they endorse emailing death threats as a legitimate means to oppose the Wisconsin bill, either.
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I don't buy that. I'm not saying people on here defend that, but many of the liberals I know have seemingly gone insane in discussing this. Some have been making comparisons between the Wisconsin republicans and Hitler. Same people basically start crying when Obama is compared to someone unfavorable from the past.
 
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