Greatest Athlete to never win highest Championship of their Sport

[Freak]

For the love of Neyland, it's not just one bad year.

It's one BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD year and a couple less than stellar. 2002 was not a year that's going to win over many fans but also not any worse than other "top" programs like Oklahoma have had from time to time.

 

[hatvol96]

It's one BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD year and a couple less than stellar. 2002 was not a year that's going to win over many fans but also not any worse than other "top" programs like Oklahoma have had from time to time.

2000 wasn't exactly good either.

 

[Freak]

2000 wasn't exactly good either.

Standard Zook type season. :biggrin2:

In fairness, that year probably was considered bad until you compare it to 2005.

 

[hatvol96]

Why do we always question who is and isn't a fan? I am much more concerned when people care about the employment of individuals more than the overall good of the program.

CPF's title droughts just happen to come when UT was on the cusp of becoming an elite program (an opportunity that UT has never been afforded). Instead of taking the bull by the horns you can look at UT's current draft results to see that a bit of laziness crept into the coaching staff. I am unable to dismiss the fact that when invited to play among the elites, UT missed their golden opportunity. My primary complaint with the winning percentage crowd is their unwillingness to look at the context. If UT had won a conference championship since 98 then the argument MIGHT have a little more validity.

USC went through several coaches to get to Carroll, and they weren't very patient with anyone including John Robinson who some would call a legend, not to mention what Nebraska did to Solich.

It's simple, Lex. Those who blindly support TCHFCATUTK are completely intellectually bankrupt on the issues. They can't come up with any valid excuse for the program's seven year slide into mediocrity. Therefore, they revert to personal attacks against those who don't drink the Kool-Aid. Just like the mental midgets in the Bush administration attack the patriotism of anyone one who opposes their policies. It's a debate tactic born out of desperation and a lack of susbtance.

 

[orangetd88]

First Place-A new Cadillac.
Second Place-A set of steak knives.
Third Place-You're fired.

LOL...Glengarry Glenross is a must see for anyone in the sales profession.

 

[Jasongivm6]

If you think only one or two seasons have been subpar, I'd love to have you doing the performance evaluation when my contract comes up for renegotiation.

I can see it now:

"Hat, I'm sorry, but we're going to have to let you go. We needed you to be spending more time in the courtrooms, but apparently, you're spending these important and potential monumental hours in the "chat" room.

 

[hatvol96]

Standard Zook type season. :biggrin2:

In fairness, that year probably was considered bad until you compare it to 2005.

How long did Florida put up with Zook?

 

[milohimself]

Or we could say since USC last won it, then everyone but Texas now sucks.

It hasn't been 7 years since USC won the Pac-10.

 

[Lexvol]

It's simple, Lex. Those who blindly support TCHFCATUTK are completely intellectually bankrupt on the issues. They can't come up with any valid excuse for the program's seven year slide into mediocrity. Therefore, they revert to personal attacks against those who don't drink the Kool-Aid. Just like the mental midgets in the Bush administration attack the patriotism of anyone one who opposes their policies. It's a debate tactic born out of desperation and a lack of susbtance.

I seem to be the only one on the board concerned with the timing of the decline. Even though I was warned that it was coming after the NC I chose not to believe it. I guess most people don't care about being the best of the best.

 

[hatvol96]

I can see it now:

"Hat, I'm sorry, but we're going to have to let you go. We needed you to be spending more time in the courtrooms, but apparently, you're spending these important and potential monumental hours in the "chat" room.

Don't really get into the courtroom much anymore. Contract and mergers and acquisitions work allows me more time to regale you all with my insightful commentary. I'm essentially on call 24/7. No standard business hours here.

 

[Freak]

How long did Florida put up with Zook?

Three years too long. Another example of a guy that never even smelled a good season.

 

[orangetd88]

Maybe your job/company is different becuase I have seen it happen in sales. Or maybe the time or two I have seen it happen is the exception. Depends on the company I guess.

:biggrin2:

In most sales arenas, you will most likely have a goal and a cushion. Yes, some are more cutthroat than others, but, generally, if you don;t do at least most of what is expected, you're gone. Most meaning, say, 75-80% or higher of your quota.

Let's say, your "quota" is 8-10 wins a season, and a conference title every 3 to 4 years.

I would say that's what UT's expcetations are in football, which is not happening right now.

 

[Lexvol]

Don't really get into the courtroom much anymore. Contract and mergers and acquisitions work allows me more time to regale you all with my insightful commentary. I'm essentially on call 24/7. No standard business hours here.

If we could all just live off of retainer fees......

 

[hatvol96]

I seem to be the only one on the board concerned with the timing of the decline. Even though I was warned that it was coming after the NC I chose not to believe it. I guess most people don't care about being the best of the best.

You aren't the only one. To parlay a National Championship and the departure of Steve Spurrier into seven years of mediocrity is unforgivable.

 

[Freak]

Let's say, your "quota" is 8-10 wins a season, and a conference title every 3 to 4 years.

I would say that's what UT's expcetations are in football, which is not happening right now.

I think those are fair expectations.

I have always agreed that we should have at least one more SECC, maybe two. However, 2005 was the first year
Fulmer ever won less than 8 games.

 

[orangetd88]

My real problem with the situation on The Hill recently is that we only seem to do well with our backs against the wall.

When we are expected to do well, we can't do crap. Lack of motivation is a problem all the way around.

 

[Freak]

My real problem with the situation on The Hill recently is that we only seem to do well with our backs against the wall.

When we are expected to do well, we can't do crap. Lack of motivation is a problem all the way around.

The good news is, right now our backs are against the wall. :biggrin2:

 

[GVF]

Just out of curiosity, Is Summit or any other UT coach on the outs because of title droughts. Using the Hatvol analogy, Summit should be getting impeached or atleast considered. She has not won the conference the last 2 season nad has not won a NC since '98. All UT sports coaches are in a drought. Especially men's track. Isn't men's track the all-tme elite UT sport in terms of success?

National Powers
The University of Tennessee has garnered 19 national championships all-time. Six have come in football and women’s basketball, while men’s outdoor track & field has three and men’s indoor track & field, cross country, swimming & diving and women’s indoor track & field all have one each.
All-Time National Championships
Basketball - Women’s (6) 1987, 1989, 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998
Cross Country - Men’s (1) 1972
Football (6) 1938, 1940, 1950, 1951, 1967, 1998
Indoor Track & Field - Men’s (1) 2002
Indoor Track & Field - Women’s (1) 2005
Outdoor Track & Field - Men’s (3) 1974, 1991, 2001
Swimming & Diving - Men’s (1) 1978

SEC Prominence
Tennessee has claimed 110 men's SEC championship team titles, the most of any league school, and 31 women's team titles for a total of 141 through the 2005-06 academic season.
All-Time SEC Championships
Baseball (3) 1951, ‘94, ‘95
Basketball - Men’s (8) 1936, ‘41, ‘43, ‘67, ‘72 (co), ‘77 (co), ‘82 (co), 2000 (co)
Basketball - Women's (13) 1980, '85, '90, '93, '94, '95, '98, '99, 2000 (co), '01, '02, '03, '04
Cross Country - Men’s (25) 1950, ‘51, ‘52, ‘53, ‘57, ‘64, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘72, ‘73, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘79, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘90, ‘91
Cross Country - Women’s (5) 1983, '90, '03, '04, '05
Football (13) 1939, ‘40, ‘41, ‘47 (co), ‘52 (co), ‘57, ‘68, ‘70, ‘86, ‘90 (co), ‘91, ‘97, ‘98
Golf - Men’s (2) 1980, ‘90
Indoor Track & Field - Men's (18) 1964, ‘65, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘71, ‘73, ‘74, ‘81, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘91, ‘96
Indoor Track & Field - Women's (2) 1984, 2005
Outdoor Track & Field - Men's (24) 1964, ‘65, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘71, ‘72, ‘73, ‘74, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘81, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘91, 2001, ‘02
Outdoor Track & Field - Women's (4) 1981, '82, '83, '84
Soccer - Women’s (3) 2003, '04, '05
Swimming & Diving - Men’s (10) 1969, ‘72, ‘73, ‘74, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘89, ‘96
Tennis - Men’s (7) 1951 (co), ‘66, ‘70, ‘80, ‘86, ‘90, 2000 (co)
Volleyball - Women’s (4) 1981, '82, '84, 2004 (co)

 

[hatvol96]

Just out of curiosity, Is Summit or any other UT coach on the outs because of title droughts. Using the Hatvol analogy, Summit should be getting impeached or atleast considered. She has not won the conference the last 2 season nad has not won a NC since '98. All UT sports coaches are in a drought. Especially men's track. Isn't men's track the all-tme elite UT sport in terms of success?

National Powers
The University of Tennessee has garnered 19 national championships all-time. Six have come in football and women’s basketball, while men’s outdoor track & field has three and men’s indoor track & field, cross country, swimming & diving and women’s indoor track & field all have one each.
All-Time National Championships
Basketball - Women’s (6) 1987, 1989, 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998
Cross Country - Men’s (1) 1972
Football (6) 1938, 1940, 1950, 1951, 1967, 1998
Indoor Track & Field - Men’s (1) 2002
Indoor Track & Field - Women’s (1) 2005
Outdoor Track & Field - Men’s (3) 1974, 1991, 2001
Swimming & Diving - Men’s (1) 1978

SEC Prominence
Tennessee has claimed 110 men's SEC championship team titles, the most of any league school, and 31 women's team titles for a total of 141 through the 2005-06 academic season.
All-Time SEC Championships
Baseball (3) 1951, ‘94, ‘95
Basketball - Men’s (8) 1936, ‘41, ‘43, ‘67, ‘72 (co), ‘77 (co), ‘82 (co), 2000 (co)
Basketball - Women's (13) 1980, '85, '90, '93, '94, '95, '98, '99, 2000 (co), '01, '02, '03, '04
Cross Country - Men’s (25) 1950, ‘51, ‘52, ‘53, ‘57, ‘64, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘72, ‘73, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘79, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘90, ‘91
Cross Country - Women’s (5) 1983, '90, '03, '04, '05
Football (13) 1939, ‘40, ‘41, ‘47 (co), ‘52 (co), ‘57, ‘68, ‘70, ‘86, ‘90 (co), ‘91, ‘97, ‘98
Golf - Men’s (2) 1980, ‘90
Indoor Track & Field - Men's (18) 1964, ‘65, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘71, ‘73, ‘74, ‘81, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘91, ‘96
Indoor Track & Field - Women's (2) 1984, 2005
Outdoor Track & Field - Men's (24) 1964, ‘65, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘71, ‘72, ‘73, ‘74, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘81, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘91, 2001, ‘02
Outdoor Track & Field - Women's (4) 1981, '82, '83, '84
Soccer - Women’s (3) 2003, '04, '05
Swimming & Diving - Men’s (10) 1969, ‘72, ‘73, ‘74, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘89, ‘96
Tennis - Men’s (7) 1951 (co), ‘66, ‘70, ‘80, ‘86, ‘90, 2000 (co)
Volleyball - Women’s (4) 1981, '82, '84, 2004 (co)

Unless math has really changed, 2 seasons isn't numerically equivalent to 7 years.

 

[Lexvol]

Just out of curiosity, Is Summit or any other UT coach on the outs because of title droughts. Using the Hatvol analogy, Summit should be getting impeached or atleast considered. She has not won the conference the last 2 season nad has not won a NC since '98. All UT sports coaches are in a drought. Especially men's track. Isn't men's track the all-tme elite UT sport in terms of success?

National Powers
The University of Tennessee has garnered 19 national championships all-time. Six have come in football and women’s basketball, while men’s outdoor track & field has three and men’s indoor track & field, cross country, swimming & diving and women’s indoor track & field all have one each.
All-Time National Championships
Basketball - Women’s (6) 1987, 1989, 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998
Cross Country - Men’s (1) 1972
Football (6) 1938, 1940, 1950, 1951, 1967, 1998
Indoor Track & Field - Men’s (1) 2002
Indoor Track & Field - Women’s (1) 2005
Outdoor Track & Field - Men’s (3) 1974, 1991, 2001
Swimming & Diving - Men’s (1) 1978

SEC Prominence
Tennessee has claimed 110 men's SEC championship team titles, the most of any league school, and 31 women's team titles for a total of 141 through the 2005-06 academic season.
All-Time SEC Championships
Baseball (3) 1951, ‘94, ‘95
Basketball - Men’s (8) 1936, ‘41, ‘43, ‘67, ‘72 (co), ‘77 (co), ‘82 (co), 2000 (co)
Basketball - Women's (13) 1980, '85, '90, '93, '94, '95, '98, '99, 2000 (co), '01, '02, '03, '04
Cross Country - Men’s (25) 1950, ‘51, ‘52, ‘53, ‘57, ‘64, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘72, ‘73, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘79, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘90, ‘91
Cross Country - Women’s (5) 1983, '90, '03, '04, '05
Football (13) 1939, ‘40, ‘41, ‘47 (co), ‘52 (co), ‘57, ‘68, ‘70, ‘86, ‘90 (co), ‘91, ‘97, ‘98
Golf - Men’s (2) 1980, ‘90
Indoor Track & Field - Men's (18) 1964, ‘65, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘71, ‘73, ‘74, ‘81, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘91, ‘96
Indoor Track & Field - Women's (2) 1984, 2005
Outdoor Track & Field - Men's (24) 1964, ‘65, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘71, ‘72, ‘73, ‘74, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘81, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘91, 2001, ‘02
Outdoor Track & Field - Women's (4) 1981, '82, '83, '84
Soccer - Women’s (3) 2003, '04, '05
Swimming & Diving - Men’s (10) 1969, ‘72, ‘73, ‘74, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘89, ‘96
Tennis - Men’s (7) 1951 (co), ‘66, ‘70, ‘80, ‘86, ‘90, 2000 (co)
Volleyball - Women’s (4) 1981, '82, '84, 2004 (co)

Actually having had relatives recently participating on the track team that I have begun to question why the coach is still there. When I think about how much money he makes it certainly doesn't bother me as much.

Regarding Pat Summit for those who care, she has made UT womens basketball LEGENDARY. CPF was given that same opportunity, and flopped.

 

[hatvol96]

Just out of curiosity, Is Summit or any other UT coach on the outs because of title droughts. Using the Hatvol analogy, Summit should be getting impeached or atleast considered. She has not won the conference the last 2 season nad has not won a NC since '98. All UT sports coaches are in a drought. Especially men's track. Isn't men's track the all-tme elite UT sport in terms of success?

National Powers
The University of Tennessee has garnered 19 national championships all-time. Six have come in football and women’s basketball, while men’s outdoor track & field has three and men’s indoor track & field, cross country, swimming & diving and women’s indoor track & field all have one each.
All-Time National Championships
Basketball - Women’s (6) 1987, 1989, 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998
Cross Country - Men’s (1) 1972
Football (6) 1938, 1940, 1950, 1951, 1967, 1998
Indoor Track & Field - Men’s (1) 2002
Indoor Track & Field - Women’s (1) 2005
Outdoor Track & Field - Men’s (3) 1974, 1991, 2001
Swimming & Diving - Men’s (1) 1978

SEC Prominence
Tennessee has claimed 110 men's SEC championship team titles, the most of any league school, and 31 women's team titles for a total of 141 through the 2005-06 academic season.
All-Time SEC Championships
Baseball (3) 1951, ‘94, ‘95
Basketball - Men’s (8) 1936, ‘41, ‘43, ‘67, ‘72 (co), ‘77 (co), ‘82 (co), 2000 (co)
Basketball - Women's (13) 1980, '85, '90, '93, '94, '95, '98, '99, 2000 (co), '01, '02, '03, '04
Cross Country - Men’s (25) 1950, ‘51, ‘52, ‘53, ‘57, ‘64, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘72, ‘73, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘79, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘90, ‘91
Cross Country - Women’s (5) 1983, '90, '03, '04, '05
Football (13) 1939, ‘40, ‘41, ‘47 (co), ‘52 (co), ‘57, ‘68, ‘70, ‘86, ‘90 (co), ‘91, ‘97, ‘98
Golf - Men’s (2) 1980, ‘90
Indoor Track & Field - Men's (18) 1964, ‘65, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘71, ‘73, ‘74, ‘81, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘91, ‘96
Indoor Track & Field - Women's (2) 1984, 2005
Outdoor Track & Field - Men's (24) 1964, ‘65, ‘66, ‘67, ‘68, ‘69, ‘70, ‘71, ‘72, ‘73, ‘74, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘81, ‘82, ‘83, ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, ‘91, 2001, ‘02
Outdoor Track & Field - Women's (4) 1981, '82, '83, '84
Soccer - Women’s (3) 2003, '04, '05
Swimming & Diving - Men’s (10) 1969, ‘72, ‘73, ‘74, ‘75, ‘76, ‘77, ‘78, ‘89, ‘96
Tennis - Men’s (7) 1951 (co), ‘66, ‘70, ‘80, ‘86, ‘90, 2000 (co)
Volleyball - Women’s (4) 1981, '82, '84, 2004 (co)

The men's track team won National Championships in 2001 and 2002.

 

[orangetd88]

I think those are fair expectations.

I have always agreed that we should have at least one more SECC, maybe two. However, 2005 was the first year
Fulmer ever won less than 8 games.

This is true. That is a great stat for him.

But, look at how many of those 8 wins or less seasons have come since 1998.

Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[GVF]

Unless math has really changed, 2 seasons isn't numerically equivalent to 7 years.

You're not the only intellectual mind in here you know. I scored a 26 on the LSAT in college out of a national average 28 that year without even looking at a study book. Did you see the 7 years since her last NC. That counts, too. Right? She's only 2 up on ole Phil right now during that same period. Not overly impressive. Better, but not impressive.

 

[Freak]

This is true. That is a great stat for him.

But, look at how many of those 8 wins or less seasons have come since 1998.

Just playing devil's advocate here.

Too many. I agree.

Look, I am not happy with the mediocrity we have had either. I am just in the camp that I want to see what happens this year before I burn him at the stake.

 

[orangetd88]

The good news is, right now our backs are against the wall. :biggrin2:

And then we come out with a year like 2003 or 2004, have a few good wins, some bad losses, and end up in a mid-tier bowl. Then 2007 comes around, we have huge expactations, and have an 8-4 or worse season.

The problem is that now, we consider a great season with a win over Alabama and/or Florida, couple with maybe a win over Georgia or another top team in the West, and that's it.

Don't get me wrong, I love those bragging rights over them very much, but when it comes down to it, what is it worth?

Fulmer himself has said repeatedly after big wins, it's not what you did today (or tonight) that counts, but it's what you do WITH it that counts.

We have done nothing with any of those in a long time.