Greece is resisting austerity

[utgibbs]

But failure of an inefficient business is an important mechanism in capitalism. It's not capitalism if companies are not allowed to fail.

Uncle Milty can explain it better than I can.

YouTube - ‪Milton Friedman - GM Auto Bailout‬‏

So you welcome economic collapse and the short-circuiting of our complex civilization? The job of every revolutionary is to make revolution!

Uncle Milty has a lot of explaining to do, indeed. Everywhere around us theories are failing in the real world outside the back door.

 

[n_huffhines]

So you welcome economic collapse and the short-circuiting of our complex civilization? The job of every revolutionary is to make revolution!

Uncle Milty has a lot of explaining to do, indeed. Everywhere around us theories are failing in the real world outside the back door.

Greece ranks 81st in economic freedom (to put that in perspective, Sweden ranks 26). You need a reality check. It's weird how those countries ranked at the top aren't doing nearly as poorly. Even though we have a horribly mismanaged government, our relatively free market has kept us afloat.

The 2009 Index of Economic Freedom | The Foundry

 

[n_huffhines]

BTW, those are 2009 rankings. In 2010 we fell behind Canada.

 

[JTrainDavis]

BTW, those are 2009 rankings. In 2010 we fell behind Canada.

That's a surprise to me.
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[volinbham]

BTW, those are 2009 rankings. In 2010 we fell behind Canada.

Gee, I wonder how that happened...

 

[droski]

Of course! Part of the problem was bailing out the Capitalist (sic) institutions in the first instance.

But the real problem is systemic to capitalism. The easy solution by far would be to restructure the Greek, Irish, and Portuguese loans. This would cause some short term pain for the Euro, but nothing disastrous.

But, of course, the Capitalist (sic) banks in Germany where this money flows will have none of it. Nor will Madame Lagrande. Protecting the Euro for French and German bankers is the be all and end all in Europe these days, and squeezing the money out of the Greek, Irish, and Portuguese proletariat is how they want to do it.

However, they may be signalling the death knell for their precious currency. The boldest (and maybe best move in the long run) would be for the three countries to leave the Euro.

have you asked yourself why germany has enough money to bail out greece and greece has none?

 

[hndog609]

Gee, I wonder how that happened...

Kettle chips cutting the crap out of people's mouths putting a burden on healthcare.

 

[volinbham]

Kettle chips cutting the crap out of people's mouths putting a burden on healthcare.

yep

 

[CountVolcula]

Irony?

Have you been asleep during our own historic time? This is might be the funniest thing ever said on this board in historical context.

Social programs are the backbone of civilization. I don't really think you realize how important they are to a properly functioning complex society.

Are you saing that All Liberals believe money grows on trees?

I have been wide awake. You are the one that appears to be asleep

I know that I make an X amount of money, therefore, I cannot spend over that X amount or after awhile, I will no longer be able to support myself and will go bankrupt. Easy concept. My kids can understand that if you dont have the money, you cant have things.

I also understand that certain things in life are luxuries. Yet you, and many of your Liberal friends, believe that everyone is entitled to those luxuries, regardless if they can afford to pay for them. You believe that I should pay for you to have them, when I can't even afford them myself. Why should my children have to suffer because someone is too damn lazy or has worked the system so they can leech off the rest of society?

Screw Socialism and the ones who want it and live it!!

 

[sjt18]

I disagree. Free enterprise ensures an incentive for general ethics because reputation takes you far in a free society. In socialism or croney capitalism, you can get away with bad behavior if you know the right people.

Reputations can be manufactured rather than genuine. You can also get away with a great deal in a free enterprise economy through unethical or immoral behavior. Political cronyism and unethical behavior works just as well in corporate or business politics as it does in gov't.

You MUST have a general sense of doing the right thing simply because it is the right thing.

 

[sjt18]

Of course! Part of the problem was bailing out the Capitalist (sic) institutions in the first instance.

But the real problem is systemic to capitalism. The easy solution by far would be to restructure the Greek, Irish, and Portuguese loans. This would cause some short term pain for the Euro, but nothing disastrous.

But, of course, the Capitalist (sic) banks in Germany where this money flows will have none of it. Nor will Madame Lagrande. Protecting the Euro for French and German bankers is the be all and end all in Europe these days, and squeezing the money out of the Greek, Irish, and Portuguese proletariat is how they want to do it.

However, they may be signalling the death knell for their precious currency. The boldest (and maybe best move in the long run) would be for the three countries to leave the Euro.

So basically you are saying that because a centrally planned and controlled economic system has collapsed under its own corrupt, inefficient weight... it is the fault of someone who neither chose that course nor benefited from it because they won't absorb the costs?

 

[sjt18]

Social programs are the backbone of civilization. I don't really think you realize how important they are to a properly functioning complex society.

Just when I think you cannot propose something more stupid.... you do. Social programs are FAR from the backbone of civilization. They are the "fat" of civilization. A society can most certainly live without them. A society can most certainly thrive without them while providing for the needy... ours did for over 100 years.

 

[sjt18]

It is interesting that gibbs pulled out the term "complex". Liberals think if you throw enough manufacutured complexity into an economic situation then by some magic.... their math will work. It never does.

 

[KiffinKiller]

Just when I think you cannot propose something more stupid.... you do. Social programs are FAR from the backbone of civilization. They are the "fat" of civilization. A society can most certainly live without them. A society can most certainly thrive without them while providing for the needy... ours did for over 100 years.

Social programs work if done correctly. Our government is too inept to run them efficiently.

 

[milohimself]

I complain about our corrupt government all the time, but if you put it in perspective we can't even touch a lot of Europe. I think the soviet influence over eastern Europe has fostered a cultural tendency towards corruption in general. My Dad is a professor of economics and taught in Prague for a bit and he says you wouldn't believe the rampant cheating. His professor friend went to Russia and said the same thing. It's a different world over there. What say ye? Did a culture of cheating bring about communism, or did communism turn them into cheaters?

I had a good discussion regarding this with my professor from the transitional economics class I just took. He tended to attribute it to the rise of organized crime during glasnost and perestroika, though cheating or unethical fiscal behavior in general is part of a much deeper discussion of black market economics.

 

[utgibbs]

Greece ranks 81st in economic freedom (to put that in perspective, Sweden ranks 26). You need a reality check. It's weird how those countries ranked at the top aren't doing nearly as poorly. Even though we have a horribly mismanaged government, our relatively free market has kept us afloat.

The 2009 Index of Economic Freedom | The Foundry

And Economic Freedom is a euphamism for "Does the country redistribute wealth upwards? Does it provide full socialism for the investment class?" Greece, fresh with the memory of the Colonels, has been one of the more progressive countries in Europe. That's not to say their banking industry didn't "follow the herd."

Sweden, for instance, has been sadly embracing neoliberalism. And instead of Ingrid, Sweden has produced Anna Ardin.

 

[utgibbs]

Just when I think you cannot propose something more stupid.... you do. Social programs are FAR from the backbone of civilization. They are the "fat" of civilization. A society can most certainly live without them. A society can most certainly thrive without them while providing for the needy... ours did for over 100 years.

Exactly when was that?

 

[utgibbs]

Are you saing that All Liberals believe money grows on trees?

I have been wide awake. You are the one that appears to be asleep

I know that I make an X amount of money, therefore, I cannot spend over that X amount or after awhile, I will no longer be able to support myself and will go bankrupt. Easy concept. My kids can understand that if you dont have the money, you cant have things.

I also understand that certain things in life are luxuries. Yet you, and many of your Liberal friends, believe that everyone is entitled to those luxuries, regardless if they can afford to pay for them. You believe that I should pay for you to have them, when I can't even afford them myself. Why should my children have to suffer because someone is too damn lazy or has worked the system so they can leech off the rest of society?

Screw Socialism and the ones who want it and live it!!

What luxuries are those?

And the bold above continues in a grandly comic tradition you seem to have started in saying the most hilarious things in current historical context.

Precisely who are you thinking spent beyond their means?

 

[utgibbs]

BTW, those are 2009 rankings. In 2010 we fell behind Canada.

We're improving then.

"Economic Freedom" is a euphamism for lack of restrictions on capital flight, socialism for the investor class (so, your numbers are actually cooked as a political gimmick during the time of Obama; or they are celebrating the crazies being elected in Canada), and other neoliberal crazy economics.

 

[utgibbs]

Kettle chips cutting the crap out of people's mouths putting a burden on healthcare.

I'm still fascinated how marketing (err, advertising) has convinced people to eat razor blades...

We might need to look into the phenomenon. Maybe this obesity thing is over-hyped.

 

[CountVolcula]

What luxuries are those?

When is the last time you have been in the world?
Have you seen some of the people drawing welfare driving in Escalades, 50" flat screens in their homes, picking up multi-basket loads of food with food stamps and WIC? All the time living the Government cheese dream. Drawing a check for each kid they have and some they dont have. While some of us, who support the welfare class, have to worry if we can make our house payment, car payment, and put food on the table, just because we have to pay taxes out of our ass to help support the welfare class.

You most certainly have no clue about real life. I can say that with confidence

Precisely who are you thinking spent beyond their means?

Government in general.

Right now Obama with his government healthcare and other social programs that keep his fellow Community Organizers in jobs.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Sometimes Gibbs makes me think he's a capitalist mole posing as a socialist.

He is exactly that.

 

[droski]

And Economic Freedom is a euphamism for "Does the country redistribute wealth upwards? Does it provide full socialism for the investment class?" Greece, fresh with the memory of the Colonels, has been one of the more progressive countries in Europe. That's not to say their banking industry didn't "follow the herd."

Sweden, for instance, has been sadly embracing neoliberalism. And instead of Ingrid, Sweden has produced Anna Ardin.

what part of your arse are you pulling this out of? in what world is a country where the rich pay off govt officials to not pay taxes progressive? do you think mexico is progressive and supports a middle class too?

 

[BigPapaVol]

He is exactly that.

no chance. Doesn't know enough econ to be a capitalist.

 

[droski]

no chance. Doesn't know enough econ to be a capitalist.

gibbs would happy if we were like greece and allowed our rich to not report 80% of their income. because hey then reported income disparaties would be narrower meaning the poor would be so much happier and better off.