Hang in there. Things will get better

[UTRavens]

That actually explains a lot about the coaching staff last season.

subpar talent with continued subpar development.

What makes Butch Jones the fall guy for that? Those recruiting classes were already largely devastated by attrition before he even got there. If you can isolate Jones' impact from Dooley's impact on players who were already there, then you might have more of a point.

If you look at the new arrivals in 2013, Jones actually appeared to do quite well in regard to player development. With players like Sutton and Vereen, we had a number of pleasant surprises. Despite being our lowest ranked freshman class in years, it was our most productive freshman class in years.

 

[GrowVol]

What makes Butch Jones the fall guy for that? Those recruiting classes were already largely devastated by attrition before he even got there. If you can isolate Jones' impact from Dooley's impact on players who were already there, then you might have more of a point.

If you look at the new arrivals in 2013, Jones actually appeared to do quite well in regard to player development. With players like Sutton and Vereen, we had a number of pleasant surprises. Despite being our lowest ranked freshman class in years, it was our most productive freshman class in years.

This:lolabove::lolabove:
Freshman CBJ brought have been playmakers in short time. This season will have many more on the field...its going to be wild to see so many Freshman making big plays....we are on our way up and maybe quickly

 

[oregonvol]

I see many posts that would seem to indicate that anything less than a 12 win season is "mediocre." That could simply be an incorrect perception on my part. We will see how patient our fan base is going forward as this relatively stellar recruiting class develops into players over the next couple of years. If the fans and the AD are indeed patient then I think the program is well on its way to a successful run. If not then we reboot and start over.

I've seen no such posts. But yet you've seen "many"? Please link to them.

As evidence to my point about this fanbase being as patient as any fanbase of any major program, here is my link to a poll where 76% declared a 5-7 season a job well done.

It does make me wonder though...I can demonstrate that our fanbase has been incredibly patient, having one of the highest total attendances in the country for a team in its 4th straight losing season (when was the last time someone got 90,000+ to home games for such a team? Has that ever happened before?), with a very high approval rating for a coach who just finished up a losing season. And we can establish that the AD is very patient, having given the worst coach in program history 3 years. So, if patience is the key to success, then why are we so bad?

 

[MedicT]

I've seen no such posts. But yet you've seen "many"? Please link to them.

As evidence to my point about this fanbase being as patient as any fanbase of any major program, here is my link to a poll where 76% declared a 5-7 season a job well done.

It does make me wonder though...I can demonstrate that our fanbase has been incredibly patient, having one of the highest total attendances in the country for a team in its 4th straight losing season (when was the last time someone got 90,000+ to home games for such a team? Has that ever happened before?), with a very high approval rating for a coach who just finished up a losing season. And we can establish that the AD is very patient, having given the worst coach in program history 3 years. So, if patience is the key to success, then why are we so bad?

I have no interest in your desire to continually rehash every negative attribute that has contributed to UT's W/L record over the past decade.

Let us revisit your post next fall when many fans begin to question Coach Jones after a few losses. We will see how quickly all measures of reality go by the wayside as these highly talented but very "green" freshmen learn the difference between high school football and SEC competition. For the record, I hope my opinion is completely wrong about the current state of the "fans." Fortunately for Coach Jones, the AD has little financial room to do much else but watch and wait. It is my contention that they will not be waiting long to see something special BEGIN to take shape on the field. IMHO

 

[oregonvol]

I have no interest in your desire to continually rehash every negative attribute that has contributed to UT's W/L record over the past decade.

Let us revisit your post next fall when many fans begin to question Coach Jones after a few losses. We will see how quickly all measures of reality go by the wayside as these highly talented but very "green" freshmen learn the difference between high school football and SEC competition. For the record, I hope my opinion is completely wrong about the current state of the "fans." Fortunately for Coach Jones, the AD has little financial room to do much else but watch and wait. It is my contention that they will not be waiting long to see something special BEGIN to take shape on the field. IMHO

So, in other words, you can't show me any of these "many posts" you claim to have seen that demand nothing less than a 12 win season?

Can you at least tell me the last program with 4 straight losing seasons to get 90,000+ to show up for their home games?

 

[MedicT]

So, in other words, you can't show me any of these "many posts" you claim to have seen that demand nothing less than a 12 win season?

Can you at least tell me the last program with 4 straight losing seasons to get 90,000+ to show up for their home games?

I take it you have not been to Neyland in quite some time, if at all. Although I must admit, I witnessed a glimpse or two of the past during the GA and SC games this year. Troll on friend. Your "weaseling" reminds me of a lawyer. If not, you should consider training for the bar.

 

[oregonvol]

I take it you have not been to Neyland in quite some time, if at all. Although I must admit, I witnessed a glimpse or two of the past during the GA and SC games this year. Troll on friend. Your "weaseling" reminds me of a lawyer. If not, you should consider training for the bar.

Not sure how you define "weaseling". Is it anything like claiming to have seen things (like many posts demanding a 12 win season) but then, when asked for proof, just resorting to personal attacks?

 

[Catbone]

I think its absolutely crucial we get to a bowl game this year.

 

[MedicT]

Not sure how you define "weaseling". Is it anything like claiming to have seen things (like many posts demanding a 12 win season) but then, when asked for proof, just resorting to personal attacks?

No personal attacks on my part. Just a personal observation noted after reading several of your posts in this thread and others.

 

[oregonvol]

No personal attacks on my part. Just a personal observation noted after reading several of your posts in this thread and others.

You may want to look up the definition of the term "personal attack." Everyone who can't control their emotions on the internet or anyone who relies on them to distract from a failing argument can claim they are based on "personal observation." Even if it were, it wouldn't make it any less of a personal attack.

So, once again, I ask: where are all these posts demanding 12 win seasons?

 

[Fatman Photos]

Dude, STFU.

 

[MedicT]

You may want to look up the definition of the term "personal attack." Everyone who can't control their emotions on the internet or anyone who relies on them to distract from a failing argument can claim they are based on "personal observation." Even if it were, it wouldn't make it any less of a personal attack.

So, once again, I ask: where are all these posts demanding 12 win seasons?

You of course realize that this format is not conducive to, nor readers interested in, the extensive listing of previous posts from fans forwarding unrealistic expectations. Those are easy enough to find and you are aware of this. You seek to be argumentative in nature and I choose not to play your game. Furthermore, the juvenile nature of your discourse with fellow posters in an effort to badger into a confrontation is getting old.

 

[oregonvol]

You of course realize that this format is not conducive to, nor readers interested in, the extensive listing of previous posts from fans forwarding unrealistic expectations. Those are easy enough to find and you are aware of this. You seek to be argumentative in nature and I choose not to play your game. Furthermore, the juvenile nature of your discourse with fellow posters in an effort to badger into a confrontation is getting old.

So, in other words, you made a claim on a messageboard that there were "many posts" that said anything less than a 12 win season was mediocre, but you can't link to them (this format makes it really easy, actually. There's a button at the top of every posting box) because they don't actually exist, so you resort to insults. Copy.

 

[MedicT]

So, in other words, you made a claim on a messageboard that there were "many posts" that said anything less than a 12 win season was mediocre, but you can't link to them (this format makes it really easy, actually. There's a button at the top of every posting box) because they don't actually exist, so you resort to insults. Copy.

Furthermore, the juvenile nature of your discourse with fellow posters in an effort to badger into a confrontation is getting old.

 

[oregonvol]

Furthermore, the juvenile nature of your discourse with fellow posters in an effort to badger into a confrontation is getting old.

People making strawman arguments based on claims that there are many posts demanding 12 win seasons, but refusing to offer any evidence of such, is getting older.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

Originally Posted by RockyTopTiger
Btw, Mizzou fan here.

We researched and posted this on our board earlier.

Tennessee currently has 41 former 4 & 5 star recruits on roster.

Mizzou has 11

Your recruiting and talent is not the problem. It's your player development and attitude.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Interesting and telling.

It's also far from accurate. I can't think of a 5* we had on the roster last season. Also, according to Rivals, we had nowhere near 41 4* on the roster. Closer to half of that, maybe 20-25, and probably about half of those were true fr, rs fr, or soph. I'm not sure what the Mizzou fan is referring to as far as player attitude. If he wants to refer back to the '11 and '12 seasons with Bray and David Ricky, ok, but there were not attitude issues that I was aware of this most recent season. I will agree on the player development, but that is what happens when you go through 3 HC changes in 5 years, with those players Kiffin recruited having at least 4 different DCs, 2 OCs, and too may position coaches to remember. Both offensive and defensive schemes changed several times. That will all play havoc with player development. I agree that Mizzou doesn't have as many 4* on the roster, but they did have plenty of talent at the skill positions, and they have also had continuity on the coaching staff, which does wonders for player development if the staff is all on the same page.

 

[beneVOLence]

Originally Posted by MedicT
Furthermore, the juvenile nature of your discourse with fellow posters in an effort to badger into a confrontation is getting old.

People making strawman arguments based on claims that there are many posts demanding 12 win seasons, but refusing to offer any evidence of such, is getting older.

oregonvol: There are no such post that demand a 12 win season other than sunshine pumper saying something like "13-0 Baby" and that is the reason there is no link. But I will agree with MedicT that I believe the fanbase patience is growing thin. I'm one of them. We have to go to a bowl game and have a competitive team against superior opponents this year for me be satisfied with the direction of the team and this coaching staff. I love the recruiting though, so lets see some results on the field. I'll hang in there, but hopefully things are getting better. My :twocents:

 

[MedicT]

In your opinion, what happens if the team demonstrably is playing better football, statistically speaking, and the W/L record is no better than this year and UT fails to make a bowl?

I will admit, relatively few are so far out on a limb to be "demanding" a 12 win season or else, whatever else implies. It is bit entertaining though to jerk the chain of those who want to argue another point into absurdity. (i.e., oregonvol)

 

[beneVOLence]

In your opinion, what happens if the team demonstrably is playing better football, statistically speaking, and the W/L record is no better than this year and UT fails to make a bowl?

I will admit, relatively few are so far out on a limb to be "demanding" a 12 win season or else, whatever else implies. It is bit entertaining though to jerk the chain of those who want to argue another point into absurdity. (i.e., oregonvol)

Cool your jets dude. I agreed with you except for your claim that people want 12 wins this year.

To be honest, probably nothing changes except that recruiting and attendance may fall off. I'll be frustrated, but still supporting the Vols. The AD will not do anything because he probably needs to give CBJ 4 or 5 years.