Harbaugh tops Saban

#54
#54
If We had opened up the pocket books to that level we could've gotten Gruden...Makes you wonder where we would be right now if we had done that...He certainly would have been a rock star on the recruiting trail...To dream the impossible dream lol
 
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#55
#55
armchair said:
and I presume a Southerner would say this. In fact, the money college football coaches are paid is absurd--but then we have our priorities! Student-athletes playing, what, close to 15 games a year now, in some cases, massive staffs, multimillionaire coaches. It's a junior professional football.
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Kids get free food(and they eat a ton), free housing, and free college. They probably make more than teachers, policemen, firemen, and military.
 
#57
#57
VFL-82-JP said:
Yes, what's funny is assuming. I agree.

And Michigan is assuming. And paying a lot for the assumption.
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Harbaugh being an elite coach is not an assumption.

Harbaugh winning a national title at Michigan is an assumption, just like every other coaching hire ever. Bama paid a lot of money to land Saban under the assumption that he'd win a title there. Same for OSU with Meyer.
 
#58
#58
zjcvols said:
Exactly. Look at Nick Saban. Alabama made an absolute big time offer to Saban to get back where they need it to be. It worked out perfectly. The other factor is being ignored is that Harbaugh was also being recruited by multiple NFL teams so Michigan also had to compete against that.
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It's what you have to do to be a dominant program. Tennessee is too cheap to do it, so half of our fans act like it isn't the right move when it's painfully obvious that it is.
 
#59
#59
The guy pulled one of the biggest upsets in history with CFB's worst team, turned them into a top 5 team almost immediately, and then went to the freaking Super Bowl at a level where the coaching is much better than it is in college. The notion that he's "unproven" is freaking insane.
 
#60
#60
You're tilting at windmills, NashVol. No one said Harbaugh isn't a very good coach.

The point is, he's not a CHAMPIONSHIP coach.

And he's not, after more than a decade as a head coach. So far, at best he's a bridesmaid.

Yet he's being paid two to three MILLION dollars a year more than the two most successful college coaches in the game today.

Yep. Over-rated (or at least overpaid), for sure, until he proves different by winning some championships.
 
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#61
#61
VFL-82-JP said:
You're tilting at windmills, NashVol.

No one said Harbaugh isn't a very good coach. The point is, he's not a CHAMPIONSHIP coach. And he's not, after more than a decade as a head coach. Still not.

Yet he's being paid two to three MILLION dollars a year more than the two most successful college coaches in the game today.

Yep. Over-rated, for sure, until he proves different by winning some championships.
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I don't see anyone winning a NC at Stanford. He at least played for a SB as a coach (and made Kaepernick look like a decent QB). He has Michigan ranked #2 which is their highest ranking since 2006. He won 10 games his first year with a team that won 5 the year prior to his arrival. He's got them 7-0 and playing pretty good ball this year. He's had Top 5 recruiting since arriving.

He's been worth it so far.
 
#63
#63
VFL-82-JP said:
You're tilting at windmills, NashVol. No one said Harbaugh isn't a very good coach.

The point is, he's not a CHAMPIONSHIP coach.

And he's not, after more than a decade as a head coach. So far, at best he's a bridesmaid.

Yet he's being paid two to three MILLION dollars a year more than the two most successful college coaches in the game today.

Yep. Over-rated (or at least overpaid), for sure, until he proves different by winning some championships.
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He is 100 percent a championship-level coach. If you need to see him holding a trophy in order to believe what is already obvious to most, that's on you.
 
#64
#64
Harbaugh is basically in the same position Calipari was in when UK made him the highest-paid coach in the country, except Harbaugh fared much better in the pros and isn't in NCAA trouble.
 
#66
#66
UK shouldn't have paid those millions to lock down Calipari. They should have saved their money for championship coaches, like Tubby Smith.
 
#67
#67
Okay, gonna type this even slower: he is not a championship coach. Don't misinterpret that again as championship-level, nor championship-caliber, nor championship-loving, but just this: championship. Something he has never, in his 12 years as a head coach, won at either the FBS or the NFL level.

And yet, millions more $$ than guys who between them have won handfuls. Of championships.

Over-rated and over-paid until / unless he changes that by winning some. Reminds me a lot of Sumlin, at this point. Paid a lot, delivering plenty but NO championships to date.
 
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#68
#68
I get your point, 82--that with that kind of salary, he BETTER win a title--but I wouldn't call him "overrated" or "overpaid" because I think paying him that money was the best possible move Michigan could have made. They now have one of the three best coaches in CFB and an annual national title contender.
 
#69
#69
NashVol11 said:
I get your point, 82--that with that kind of salary, he BETTER win a title--but I wouldn't call him "overrated" or "overpaid" because I think paying him that money was the best possible move Michigan could have made. They now have one of the three best coaches in CFB and an annual national title contender.
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You could end up being right, one day. When/if he wins some championships. Until then, those in favor of him are just assuming what the future will hold.

Time will tell.
 
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#70
#70
VFL-82-JP said:
Heh, are you just trying to build up your post count total? Why so many one-sentence posts within minutes of each other, few of them even responding to another person? :)

Okay, gonna type this even slower so you can get it: he is not a championship coach. Don't misinterpret that again as championship-level, nor championship-caliber, nor championship-loving, but just this: championship. Something he has never, in his 12 years as a head coach, won at either the FBS or the NFL level.

And yet, millions more than guys who between them have won handfuls.

Over-rated and over-paid until / unless he changes that by winning some. Reminds me a lot of Sumlin, at this point. Paid a lot, delivering plenty but NO championships to date.
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Almost like you trying to build your argument by repeating "12 years" like he was supposed to win a title at San Diego or Stanford. He spent 4 years in a Power 5 conference, going steadily from 1-11 to 12-1, and then 4 years in the NFL, where he had more success than any other college football coach in America.

Winning the Super Bowl, especially without a franchise QB, is several orders of magnitude harder than winning a college title. Hell, even having a winning record in the NFL is hard enough, and he was probably the second-best coach in the league to Belichick.

The notion that he can be "overrated" on January 8, and "not overrated" on January 9 after winning a title--when literally nothing about his coaching style changed in those 24 hours--is a little silly to me. And he's nothing like Sumlin.
 
#71
#71
NashVol11 said:
Winning the Super Bowl, especially without a franchise QB, is several orders of magnitude harder than winning a college title. Hell, even having a winning record in the NFL is hard enough, and he was probably the second-best coach in the league to Belichick.

The notion that he can be "overrated" on January 8, and "not overrated" on January 9 after winning a title--when literally nothing about his coaching style changed in those 24 hours--is a little silly to me. And he's nothing like Sumlin.
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On your quoted Paragraph 1: I've often wondered about that. Not sure it's harder to coach in the pros than college. Different, yes. But the math alone says winning the college NC is harder: you start off as just 1 of 128 at that level ... 1 of 32 sounds a lot easier, on the face of it. I mean, hell, a third of the NFL get to the playoffs ... only 4 of 128 get that advantage in the college ranks. So I am far from convinced that succeeding in the NFL is nearly as hard as succeeding in college.

Fact is, they're very different jobs that require different talents.

On your Paragraph 2: You're assuming again. You're assuming Jan 9 is going to be any different for Michigan than Jan 8.

Rather than assume all this, let's just see how it plays out.

Harbaugh has the opportunity to prove he's worth millions more than Saban and Meyer...let's see if he does.
 
#72
#72
VFL-82-JP said:
You could end up being right, one day. When/if he wins some championships. Until then, those in favor of him are just assuming what the future will hold.

Time will tell.
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This is what I'm saying. The quality of instruction or decisionmaking that he brings to every game, practice, recruiting visit, etc. isn't dependent on championships. If he'll be a top-3 coach when he wins a title, then he's a top-3 coach now. How good he is won't change; the only thing that will change will be your opinion of him, which is why I say it's on you.
 
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#73
#73
NashVol11 said:
This is what I'm saying. The quality of instruction or decisionmaking that he brings to every game, practice, recruiting visit, etc. isn't dependent on championships. If he'll be a top-3 coach when he wins a title, then he's a top-3 coach now. How good he is won't change; the only thing that will change will be your opinion of him, which is why I say it's on you.
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Nash, so far everyone who defends the insanely big paycheck Harbaugh gets has been living in the future. Including you.

He has won not a single championship yet. Any championship he may win, it's in the unknown future. He has done NONE of that yet.

Some think his recruiting tactics and leadership quirks are genius, others think they're creepy. Either way, they're just a means to an end. The end is championships. He has none.

And yet he is being compensated MILLIONS of dollars more than the two coaches who have proven their chops over, and over, and over again.

So we'll see. Living in the present, he's over-rated and overpaid.
 
#74
#74
VFL-82-JP said:
On your quoted Paragraph 1: I've often wondered about that. Not sure it's harder to coach in the pros than college. Different, yes. But the math alone says winning the college NC is harder: you start off as just 1 of 128 at that level ... 1 of 32 sounds a lot easier, on the face of it. I mean, hell, a third of the NFL get to the playoffs ... only 4 of 128 get that advantage in the college ranks. So I am far from convinced that succeeding in the NFL is nearly as hard as succeeding in college.

Fact is, they're very different jobs that require different talents.

On your Paragraph 2: You're assuming again. You're assuming Jan 9 is going to be any different for Michigan than Jan 8.

Rather than assume all this, let's just see how it plays out.

Harbaugh has the opportunity to prove he's worth millions more than Saban and Meyer...let's see if he does.
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Realistically, it's nowhere close to 1 of 128 because you recruit your own players. NFL teams get 1 of the top 32 players in the draft. Alabama can get 10 of the top 32 HS players if they recruit well. The talent gap between teams is gigantic in college football, enough for Larry Coker to win a national title. The separator in the NFL is coaching (aside from QB play, which Harbaugh didn't really have).

You're just telling me you're incapable of projection, which is fine. You're more than welcome to judge everything retroactively. But it's really not that hard to see who the very best coaches are.
 
#75
#75
NashVol11 said:
Realistically, it's nowhere close to 1 of 128 because you recruit your own players. NFL teams get 1 of the top 32 players in the draft. Alabama can get 10 of the top 32 HS players if they recruit well. The talent gap between teams is gigantic in college football, enough for Larry Coker to win a national title. The separator in the NFL is coaching (aside from QB play, which Harbaugh didn't really have).

You're just telling me you're incapable of projection, which is fine. You're more than welcome to judge everything retroactively. But it's really not that hard to see who the very best coaches are.
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Heh, no, I've no problem projecting the future. I've spent a career doing that as best I could, and I did okay.

I've just learned through long experience not to make assumptions that don't pass a few litmus tests. Assuming Harbaugh will win championships doesn't pass those tests.
 
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