Hard nosed, intelligent, political discussion

#51
#51
How about good Civil War subjects, how much power should the states have?

Is the present central government the model the founding fathers intended or just an aberration created by the Civil War?
 
#52
#52
I think the Federalist/Anti-Federalist debate has been around since the ink dried Articles of Confederation and later the Constitution. I think the Founders would all be alarmed by the size and scope of today's federal governement.
 
#53
#53
(OrangeEmpire @ Mar 23 said:
Are your assumptions based on my church or your views in general?

If you believe my church does not outreach to the poorest of the poor, the homeless, or the drug uses or drunks, regardless or race, in Columbus, Ohio you are sadley mistaken.

My church is not interested in salvation of lost souls?

How did you reach that conclusion?

Do you know what Rick Warren's model is? The Phases are below

Class 101 - Discovering Church Membership
Class 201 - Discovering Spiritual Maturity
Class 301 - Discovering My Ministry
Class 401 - Discovering My Life Mission

The above equals a cash flow?

Do you attend a small church?

Have you ever attended a large® church?

Is it a waste of money because the gym is used for the Genoa Christian School?

You sound like the pastor at my parent's church. Smaller is better and the church should revert back to the 1850's. *That was his sermon two weeks ago when we took my newborn son to see my parents in Kentucky and somehow he tied in Irritable Bowl Syndrome.

*Perhaps I mistyped when I said membership was in phases? It is nothing like the Mormons or Scientology where you pay for different levels.

GOOD SHOW LETS KEEP TALKING! AWESOME!
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Whoa now, not going after your church at all but am going after all bigger churches that are an industry, enterprise or whatever.

Rick Warren, no, I don't know the name but I would tend to follow more what the Bible says than someone named Rick Warren. That is no dis to you or to Rick.

Yes, I grew up in a small church in a small town. My wife and kids (and I sometimes) go to a church with a membership of about 3500. My church (different denomination than my wife) is about 600.

Everyone at church knows me and vice-versa. They even know my wife and children althought they do not go to the same Church. I'm not a Democrat and no Hillary fan, but the phrase she coined "it takes a village" IMO is very true. Everyone here keeps up not only with their own children, but each other's children as well. That IMO is the true value of a small church. I'm sure large churches have advantages as well. for example, our church could not afford to bring John Tesh in for a concert, Shades Mountain Baptist can and has done so. It only cost them $125k.

BTW the way I read your post was that your church plans on how many and when to add members, my bad.

Most importantly, please remember this is just a discussion. If anything I've posted sounds accusatory, I promise that is not the tone in which it was intended.

 
#54
#54
(BHAMVOLFAN @ Mar 23 said:
Whoa now, not going after your church at all but am going after all bigger churches that are an industry, enterprise or whatever.

Rick Warren, no, I don't know the name but I would tend to follow more what the Bible says than someone named Rick Warren. That is no dis to you or to Rick.

Yes, I grew up in a small church in a small town. My wife and kids (and I sometimes) go to a church with a membership of about 3500. My church (different denomination than my wife) is about 600.

Everyone at church knows me and vice-versa. They even know my wife and children althought they do not go to the same Church. I'm not a Democrat and no Hillary fan, but the phrase she coined "it takes a village" IMO is very true. Everyone here keeps up not only with their own children, but each other's children as well. That IMO is the true value of a small church. I'm sure large churches have advantages as well. for example, our church could not afford to bring John Tesh in for a concert, Shades Mountain Baptist can and has done so. It only cost them $125k.

BTW the way I read your post was that your church plans on how many and when to add members, my bad.

Most importantly, please remember this is just a discussion. If anything I've posted sounds accusatory, I promise that is not the tone in which it was intended.
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Why would anyone willingly subject themself to John Tesh?
 
#55
#55
(hatvol96 @ Mar 23 said:
Why would anyone willingly subject themself to John Tesh?
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You've got to pay for your sins somehow..
 
#57
#57
The problem I see with churches in my area is when part of the congregation decides thta they don't "like" something concerning the church and they go off and start another church so that they can do things their way. IMO you don't have to agree with everyone in your church family or even "like" all of them , you just have to love them and find a way to get along.
 
#58
#58
(hatvol96 @ Mar 23 said:
That's beyond penance, that's simply self loathing.
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I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that.
 
#59
#59
(volmanjr @ Mar 23 said:
The problem I see with churches in my area is when part of the congregation decides thta they don't "like" something concerning the church and they go off and start another church so that they can do things their way. IMO you don't have to agree with everyone in your church family or even "like" all of them , you just have to love them and find a way to get along.
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Just a way of life for some denominations. Come to think of it . . . that's why there are different denominations.
 
#60
#60
GAVol, wealth envy in america is spreading like wildfire, a socialist state would argue that all wealth should be distributed. The democratic party, i.e. Hillary Clinton, is moving in that direction.

Scientology is quite possibly the goofiest religion created by a science fiction author. L Ron Hubbard is a nutcase. By the way, if you want to read about what Scientologists believe, here is a link. As you are reading this, remember, this is what John Travolta believes....

Scientology in a "nutshell"
 
#61
#61
I am not participating in this thread but isn't Tom Cruise a Sientologist also?
 
#62
#62
Back to political.I read when Microsoft was defending themselves from being seen as a monopoly a few years back, they had 14 lobbyist representing their cause.Isn't there a cutoff number you can have persuading legislators?Just curious.
 
#63
#63
(vol_freak @ Mar 23 said:
I am not participating in this thread but isn't Tom Cruise a Sientologist also?
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I think you just DID participate in this thread. :D

Yes, Maverick is a Scientologist. Cruise has gotten so eccentric that I'd bet even the Scientologists think he's lost it.
 
#64
#64
(Volunteer @ Mar 23 said:
GAVol, wealth envy in america is spreading like wildfire, a socialist state would argue that all wealth should be distributed. The democratic party, i.e. Hillary Clinton, is moving in that direction.

Scientology is quite possibly the goofiest religion created by a science fiction author. L Ron Hubbard is a nutcase. By the way, if you want to read about what Scientologists believe, here is a link. As you are reading this, remember, this is what John Travolta believes....

Scientology in a "nutshell"
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The real question is: What does Chuck Norris believe?
 
#65
#65
(hatvol96 @ Mar 23 said:
The real question is: What does Chuck Norris believe?
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Now that's a good question.

(ps I am still not participating in this thread).
 
#66
#66
(vol_freak @ Mar 23 said:
Now that's a good question.

(ps I am still not participating in this thread).
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You're going to keep on not participating and eventually I'm going to find something slightly controversial in one of your posts and jump all over it.
 
#67
#67
(GAVol @ Mar 24 said:
You're going to keep on not participating and eventually I'm going to find something slightly controversial in one of your posts and jump all over it.
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:biggrin2: You would.
 
#68
#68
I wanted to say that I love all you gals and guys!

I have said this a thousand times and I will keep saying this, I used to post on a Tennessee web board similar to this one and the people were just crazy. This type of post could have never been discussed with civility as it is right now.

I want to say thank you for being kind people!

This is a great group of people and Bravo to those who are responsible for the upkeep of the board.
 
#69
#69
I follow what the Bible says also, as does Rick Warren. There are two main arguments I have never understood.

1.) Church Size and the assumptions why they are bad and how they get their members.

2.) Why people such as Rick Warren and Max Lucado are lambasted for trying to improve the relationship between God and Christians and improve upon the Church? *The Church is ever adapting since the day of Pentecost.

An example of a church that does not adapt and has squandered is my parents church is “Distinctively Baptist” and the church motto is “What good Baptist churches used to be, we still are.” This is what legalism and it effects bring about. When you stress rules and regulations over a personal relationship/walk with God you are reduced to a shell.

I still suffer the effects of legalism. Breaking free from controllers, perfectionism, and drive ness, and learning to relate to God under the covenant of grace is critically important for our freedom, growth, and spirituality as believers.

I do not follow; care to explain why Rick Warren's model does not correspond to the Bible? :blush2: :banghead: :biggrin2: :birgits_giggle: :blink:

P.S. Are you buy chance a member of the Church of Christ?

P.S. The greatest part about your avatar of Bush, is that a picture of Tony Blair is on his desk.
 
#70
#70
Let's be careful here. This thread has been remarkably civil so far, but I fear that injecting religion into it might make it go south in a hurry.

Not saying there's anything wrong so far . . . everybody has done a great job of keeping the debate on a high level. Just reminding everybody to tread lightly. :twocents:
 
#71
#71
It has gone quite well, I do not think any thing will occur over our talk about church size and such.

I think most of us find scientology amusing, if only for the fact that Tom Cruise is a scientologist.
 
#72
#72
I agree. I think I'm just so shocked that a thread involving religion and politics has now gone over 60 posts without a single incendiary remark. :D
 
#73
#73
Back on topic . . . Due to the business I am in, I deal with churches everyday and can tell you that this struggle is going on in nearly every denomination out there. I think it's just the nature of the church in general to resist change.
 
#74
#74
I should really quit bringing this up over and over, but the stories I could tell you over some of the stuff wrote about such trivial matters, would either make your laugh or cry.

This is a great Web Board! :dance2: :cry: :D :air_kiss: :yahoo:
 
#75
#75
I agree 100% that churches and people are resistant to change. Over and over again the Bible warns against complacancy.

Personal example, my parents do not agree with the pastor or how the church is run but their friends are there and that is why they attend.

My mother is so funny, mind you she is 63, but her church, the one I have been mentioning, used to have a chili supper every Wednesday night so members could come after work and not rush home and try to eat and change. Well the "older" crowd pleaded with the pastor to stop it because in their eyes the chili supper took away from the "Lords" time and shifted the focus of worship toward eating chili. In other words people were coming to church just to eat chili and not worship.

My mother said to me, you know how the "old" people are, they are resistant to change. :birgits_giggle:
 
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