Hard nosed, intelligent, political discussion

#76
#76
I understand everyone's perspective on how change has not been at the forefront of most church's agenda. For that very same reason is why I left the Presbyterian church.

I am now a member of Providence church in Knoxville. They do an excellent job of relating real world issues to the teachings of the bible. They have a band, you can wear jeans, the kids programs are incredible AND you can wear jeans. If anyone is interested in going to Providence church, pm me , it's worth it.

Back on topic. My goal of this thread was to create good discussion without incendiary remarks or personal attacks, I think we have succeeded so far.
 
#77
#77
Next topic of a political nature:

Let's say that the '08 ticket for the presidential office is none other than Condoleezza Rice and Hillary Clinton. Who do you vote for and why.
 
#79
#79
P.S. Are you buy chance a member of the Church of Christ?

P.S. The greatest part about your avatar of Bush, is that a picture of Tony Blair is on his desk.

Good insight to a point. You're going to laugh at the following but here's my background.

Spent the 1st 18 years of my life in the CofC (good guess). Went to UT for 2 years and became interested in the Episcopal Church. Transferred to and graduated from a Southern Baptist college. Married a Catholic. What is the Beach Boys song "I get around?"

Anyway, sometimes I like to play devil's advocate cause Lord knows I have the background! Again, don't let anything I post get your blood pressure up, just some friendly debate. In the land of Freedom of Religion, there must be several hundred protestant denominations and sects. They all think they have the answer. Ain't it grand!
 
#80
#80
Like I have said this is great!

One of my good friends is a pastor of a COC church. Your arguments simply reminded me of him.

I would vote for Rice, but as of now, I do not know if I would be voting for Rice or against Clinton.

*You have opened a rant on my part.*

Every thing Hillary has accomplished has come in the wake of her husband's achievements. She became a partner at the Rose Law Firm because Bill became Governor. She got health care reform because he became president. She got the Senate nomination in a state in which she had never lived without a primary and with $45 million for the race because he was president.

Condi has done everything on her own. She graduated near the top of her class at the University of Denver at the age of 19. A Masters Degree from Notre Dame, a doctorate from Denver. She became a tenured professor in her 20s. At 34, she was negotiating directly with Gorbachev hammering out the details of German reunification as the President's chief advisor on Soviet relations. She is fluent in Russian and French. A world class concert pianist. She has an incredible mind and will.

Hillary is not her husband's equal as an intellect by any means. She is not a creative person and performs tasks through memorization and dedication. She is a hardened advocate but not a subtle mind. She has great discipline but little intellectual curiosity. She is sincerely devoted to the ideals she stands for, a vastly greater government role in health care, education, and the lives of people with a much greater tax burden to match. She is as close as we have to a genuine European Socialist in our politics. Her very idealism kindles a sense that the ends justify the means and permits her great latitude in her choice of political tactics, often sanctioning the most ruthless and unseemly in our politics.
 
#81
#81
I'll put it simply....I ain't voting for Hillary. John McCain is at the top of my list for the moment. I'm glad W is in his last term as he and the new conservatives in Congress are spending our life savings even as we speak. Lord knows the Dems ain't going to stop them.
 
#83
#83
McCain a Dem? I don't think so. I think he may be more moderate than some of the new conservatives that have taken over the GOP, but he's not a democrat. Quite frankly, I don't agree with him more than 75% of the time, but I admire that he has a strong belief in himself and stands on his priciple rather than having the GOP $$$ steer him away from his convictions. I don't believe any other candidate can say that.
 
#84
#84
P.S. I can't believe you didn't poke fun at my post before last :haha_oh: I left the door wide open. ;)
 
#86
#86
Empire, I am impressed with your knowledge of the two supposed candidates.

I may, repeat may, be in agreement with you on the voting aspect of against Clinton rather than for Rice. It is a tough proposition because it would be the first time in history of ANY country where the current (future) election of the greatest power would be between two females.

In my opinion, this scenario would be an interesting demographic vote...for example:

Would Rice receive a majority of the black vote or would Clinton receive the black vote because democrats have always received the black vote?

Who would win the female vote? Would Rice win just for the main fact that a lot of people thinks Clinton is hiding a pair under her business suit? Just kidding. Rice would certainly not win the feminists over even though she stands for equality of women in every aspect of her life.

Who would win the big business vote?

Would their be a shortage of people going to the voting booths as a way to protest the fact there are two female candidates? Another aspect to this thought is the hispanic vote and the role of "machismo" in latin society.

Incredible ways to look at this scenario.

Someone pointed out earlier they would not vote for a woman, I'm not saying it would happen, I'm just throwing out the scenario.

 
#87
#87
Would Rice receive a majority of the black vote
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Oddly enough . . . No way, but it might sway a few points.

Who would win the female vote?
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With two women in the race, I think the female demographic would remain left leaning.

Who would win the big business vote?
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Is this a serious question? :D

Would their be a shortage of people going to the voting booths as a way to protest the fact there are two female candidates?
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Interesting thought, but I think once we get to the level of Presidential politics people will put that aside.

 
#88
#88
P.S. I can't believe you didn't poke fun at my post before last I left the door wide open. ;)
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You are great! I "think" that we "think" almost exactly alike!

Bravo! :biggrin2:

Empire, I am impressed with your knowledge of the two supposed candidates
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I read to much, I was probably more or less paraphrasing Dick Morris.

majority of the black vote
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If Condi would only get 40% it would be a run away in her favor.

Who would win the female vote?
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Condi would, simply because there is nothing appealing to mainstream adult women. The more Clinton speaks the more people will dislike her.

Who would win the big business vote?
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Push, I can see it going either way.

Would their be a shortage of people going to the voting booths as a way to protest the fact there are two female candidates? Another aspect to this thought is the hispanic vote and the role of "machismo" in latin society.
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I think it would be the highest turnout ever and this is why. I think Condi would appeal to Nixon's "Silent Majority".

Condi is level headed and as of now does not lean strongly to the right, or appears to be at the hand of the religous right and not to far left but rather a centrist or moderate.

Nixon's "Silent Majority" is centrist. In general most Americans could care less if they are one God or twenty Gods as long as their personal liberty is not violated and they are kept safe.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." --Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791.
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"Religion is a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his Maker in which no other, and far less the public, had a right to intermeddle." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Rush, 1813.

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
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#89
#89
(OrangeEmpire @ Mar 24 said:
Push, I can see it going either way.
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You really think that the woman who pushed a plan to have the governement take over 1/7th of the economy via socialized medicine has a snowball's chance in hell of getting big business on board with her?
 
#90
#90
Well, I am a 30 year old white female and I would vote for Rice in a heart beat!!!!! I would never vote for Hillary. She irritates the he!! out of me.
 
#91
#91
I think the appeal of Rice is the same appeal that attracts us to McCain. they do not appear to be puppets for a larger goup with a known or unknown agenda. That might be the Republican ticket right there- McCain/Rice. Honestly, I respect McCain, but being a fiscal and moral conservative myself, I am somewhat leary of his liberal lean. For some reason however, Rice I feel would be more protective of my Conservative voice. The only problem I have with her is that she is a BAMMER.
 
#92
#92
Yea, my husband says he will vote for McCain. I forgot about Rice being a Bammer. Why did you ruin it for me!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!
 
#93
#93
I've never been a McCain fan. He's always struck me as a little too much of a Populist.
 
#94
#94
(OrangeEmpire @ Mar 24 said:
Every thing Hillary has accomplished has come in the wake of her husband's achievements.
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Every thing W has accomplished has come in the wake of his father.
 
#95
#95
(Volunteer @ Mar 24 said:
Next topic of a political nature:

Let's say that the '08 ticket for the presidential office is none other than Condoleezza Rice and Hillary Clinton. Who do you vote for and why.
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Is none of the above an option.

The question I guess is would I rather have a Karl Rove puppet or a Bill Clinton puppet. If it came down to those two I probably won't vote.
 
#96
#96
(GAVol @ Mar 24 said:
I've never been a McCain fan. He's always struck me as a little too much of a Populist.
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Yeah, wouldn't want Populism to have a place in a Democracy.
 
#97
#97
I should have used the word "gratuitous" in front of populist.

He seems to end up in front of a lot of cameras.
 
#98
#98
Go ahead GaVol, say it, McCain is a publicity whore. If he ends up being the republican candidate, God help us. While McCain is a Republican, he is very wrapped up in what the polls are saying. Politics is becoming the art of pandering. If a focus group or exit poll says one thing, then politicians race to appease that group, quash the issue, or throw money at something. That is why I like George Bush so much. He believes what he says and then does it, is he always right, hell no, people make mistakes and to believe that any one man shouldn't is living in a dream world.

McCain would only get my party vote, he would have to prove his worth to me.
 
#99
#99
(Volunteer @ Mar 24 said:
Go ahead GaVol, say it, McCain is a publicity whore. If he ends up being the republican candidate, God help us. While McCain is a Republican, he is very wrapped up in what the polls are saying. Politics is becoming the art of pandering. If a focus group or exit poll says one thing, then politicians race to appease that group, quash the issue, or throw money at something. That is why I like George Bush so much. He believes what he says and then does it, is he always right, hell no, people make mistakes and to believe that any one man shouldn't is living in a dream world.

McCain would only get my party vote, he would have to prove his worth to me.
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The guy in a straightjacket at Lakeshore believes what he says. too. Doesn't mean it's admirable.
 
#100
#100
(Volunteer @ Mar 24 said:
Go ahead GaVol, say it, McCain is a publicity whore.
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Thank you . . .

And one other thing to ponder. We always look to the Senate for Presidential candidates. The last guy to make a successful bid from the Senate was JFK almost 50 years ago.

If history is any indicator, the next President is probably a Governor somewhere right now.
 
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