Has there ever been a more overvalued Conference(Big east '09)?

#51
#51
lidderer said:
It's about overvaluing. And no conference in ages has been so overvalued than the '09 big east.
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You do realize everyone is going to be laughing at that assessment when they've got 5 or 6 teams playing on the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament, don't you?
 
#52
#52
lidderer said:
hey no! that doesnt matter! games that have already happened are irrelevant! it's worse than a stat!

all that matters is what someone thinks about the future. Everything else is for geeks. Remember that.
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Nonconference games were certainly a great predictor of Lousiville's NCAA Tournament fate last year.
 
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#53
#53
lidderer said:
That's the whole point, neither is depaul any good, or seton hall, but you throw a bunch of podunks in another conference and people will 'overvalue' it, which is funny because I dont think he knows it, but that papa guy mentioned the 'fallacy' in strength in numbers, and that is essentially what I'm saying.

It's about overvaluing. And no conference in ages has been so overvalued than the '09 big east.
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DePaul would destroy the vast majority of our conference.

You're strength in numbers argument wasn't what you're portraying. It was that there has to be strength with that many teams. I said that's garbage.
 
#54
#54
droski said:
Cal lost to oregon state yesterday AT HOME. Cal was first in the pac-10 and blew out ASU. The pac-10 is horrid.
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So Louisville loses to unlv in louisville, and cal beats unlv in louisville, and yet we arrive at this conclusion?

I'm not one to say "well x beat y, and y lost to z, so that means z is the best", but if we're applying that logic directly(which certain people here are) than, well, you could find paradox all the time.

an example of this stupidity would be: "pitt was no.1 then lost to louisville, and louisville lost to unlv, and cal beat unlv, so the big east is horrid."

Anyone with a brain knows that's untrue.
 
#55
#55
hatvol96 said:
You do realize everyone is going to be laughing at that assessment when they've got 5 or 6 teams playing on the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament, don't you?
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If there's 6 teams come the sweet 16, I'll admit my error in judgement no problem.

You do realize that everyone is going to be laughing at your assessment when 5 or 6 teams don't make the second weekend, dont you?
 
#56
#56
lidderer said:
So Louisville loses to unlv in louisville, and cal beats unlv in louisville, and yet we arrive at this conclusion?
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My guess is that oski arrived at the conclusion that the PAC 10 is horrid the same way the rest of the country has: He's watched the vomit inducing quality of play.
 
#57
#57
lidderer said:
If there's 6 teams come the sweet 16, I'll admit my error in judgement no problem.

You do realize that everyone is going to be laughing at your assessment when 5 or 6 teams don't make the second weekend, dont you?
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forget what can happen in a one and done style affair. I'm talking about who has the best college players in the team set. Those belong to the Big East.
 
#59
#59
lidderer said:
So Louisville loses to unlv in louisville, and cal beats unlv in louisville, and yet we arrive at this conclusion?

I'm not one to say "well x beat y, and y lost to z, so that means z is the best", but if we're applying that logic directly(which certain people here are) than, well, you could find paradox all the time.

an example of this stupidity would be: "pitt was no.1 then lost to louisville, and louisville lost to unlv, and cal beat unlv, so the big east is horrid."

Anyone with a brain knows that's untrue.
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I have no idea how good the rest of the country is. all i know is at this point in the season there isn't a single pac-10 team i've seen in a normal year that would make it past the first weekend of the tourney. and yes that includes UCLA.
 
#61
#61
lidderer said:
:eek:k:

Depaul losses: california, northwestern, morgan state, ucla, creighton.

best win:eek:ver illinois......wait for it......-chicago

That's a really strange opinion.
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Would that be the Illinois-Chicago team that beat Vanderbilt and their stout interior defense?
 
#63
#63
lidderer said:
:eek:k:

Depaul losses: california, northwestern, morgan state, ucla, creighton.

best win:eek:ver illinois......wait for it......-chicago

That's a really strange opinion.
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Of the 5 losses you list, 3 are NCAA locks, Morgan State will probably make the tournament by winning the MEAC, and Northwestern just won at Michigan State.
 
#64
#64
hatvol96 said:
Nonconference games were certainly a great predictor of Lousiville's NCAA Tournament fate last year.
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here you go again acting like someone said OOC=be all and end all. It doesnt. But fine, you ignore the early games and go with future hopes because louisville did something last season.

If you're looking for one measure to be foolproof, you're never gonna find it. If you think anyone believes there is one, you're wrong. If you think because something isnt perfectively predictive it is therefore wrong, you might want to go back to probablity and that ol' correlation thingermajigger.
 
#65
#65
lidderer said:
here you go again acting like someone said OOC=be all and end all. It doesnt. But fine, you ignore the early games and go with future hopes because louisville did something last season.

If you're looking for one measure to be foolproof, you're never gonna find it. If you think anyone believes there is one, you're wrong. If you think because something isnt perfectively predictive it is therefore wrong, you might want to go back to probablity and that ol' correlation thingermajigger.
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That's the difference. I don't have to waste my time with spreadsheets. I can actually watch games and make pretty concise predictions about where teams are going to end up.
 
#66
#66
hatvol96 said:
Would that be the Illinois-Chicago team that beat Vanderbilt and their stout interior defense?
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The exact team, yes.

Illinois-chicago 3pt shooting vs Vanderbilt: 12 of 19(63%)

Illinois-chicago 2pt shooting vs vandy: 37.5%

Was that the point you were trying to make?
 
#67
#67
lidderer said:
The exact team, yes.

Illinois-chicago 3pt shooting vs Vanderbilt: 12 of 19(63%)

Illinois-chicago 2pt shooting vs vandy: 37.5%

Was that the point you were trying to make?
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The same one I've been making this entire thread: The SEC and the PAC 10 are embarrassingly awful.
 
#68
#68
hatvol96 said:
That's the difference. I don't have to waste my time with spreadsheets. I can actually watch games and make pretty concise predictions about where teams are going to end up.
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I dont have to either. I just like to add to my bank of knowledge. You stick with your one, and i'll stick with my 'both'.
 
#69
#69
lidderer said:
The exact team, yes.

Illinois-chicago 3pt shooting vs Vanderbilt: 12 of 19(63%)

Illinois-chicago 2pt shooting vs vandy: 37.5%

Was that the point you were trying to make?
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That Illinois Chicage beat Vanderbilt, if I read correctly.

Sweet use of stats by the way. Tells me that Vandy has a near impenetrable interior D.
 
#70
#70
hatvol96 said:
The same one I've been making this entire thread: The SEC and the PAC 10 are embarrassingly awful.
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No actually your point was that vandy doesnt have a good interior D because they got beat by ill-chicago. And that didnt make sense as a point to be making, since they won with absurd 3pt shooting despite horrible interior scoring.
 
#71
#71
lidderer said:
No actually your point was that vandy doesnt have a good interior D because they got beat by ill-chicago. And that didnt make sense as a point to be making, since they won with absurd 3pt shooting despite horrible interior scoring.
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No, I simply added the line about Vanderbilt's interior defense beacause the assertion they have a good one is still one of the funniest things I've heard in some time. You acted like DePaul was horrible because their best win is over UIC. I was simply pointing out that a team that will finish in the middle of the SEC pack lost to the Flames.
 
#72
#72
BigPapaVol said:
That Illinois Chicage beat Vanderbilt, if I read correctly.

Sweet use of stats by the way. Tells me that Vandy has a near impenetrable interior D.
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Oh i get it, you think 'stout interior D' means 'can't be beat'. That's weird.

Sorry to offend you with scary numbers, I could have said "they won the game with outside shooting, what does that have to do with interior D?"

I've never said vandy is some good team, I said they have good interior D. That's why he was making that reference, and the point didnt make sense.
 
#73
#73
lidderer said:
Oh i get it, you think 'stout interior D' means 'can't be beat'. That's weird.

Sorry to offend you with scary numbers, I could have said "they won the game with outside shooting, what does that have to do with interior D?"

I've never said vandy is some good team, I said they have good interior D. That's why he was making that reference, and the point didnt make sense.
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Vandy has awful interior D, period.

Wonder if UIC's team and it's offensive focus has anything to do with those stats? Hmmm. Sure makes one curious.
 
#75
#75
hatvol96 said:
No, I simply added the line about Vanderbilt's interior defense beacause the assertion they have a good one is still one of the funniest things I've heard in some time. You acted like DePaul was horrible because their best win is over UIC. I was simply pointing out that a team that will finish in the middle of the SEC pack lost to the Flames.
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right, and I said they have a good interior D, not they are a great team. And then I showed how the ill-chic. game had nothing to do with interior D. Um, good one.

But why would you point out that about the SEC? Everyone here agress the SEC is bad.
 
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