Healthcare & Guns in America: Lasting Impact of the Covid Response

What impact on debate going forward?

  • Americans warm to the idea

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Americans cool to the idea

    Votes: 10 52.6%
  • No impact

    Votes: 9 47.4%

  • Total voters
    19
#26
#26
The one lasting impact is I did not previously foresee how quickly America (even in red states) could lurch toward a totalitarian, thought crime regime. And not just the feds but many governors quickly grabbed massive dictatorial powers based on very specious reasoning and were very loathe to give them up. Laws were quickly changed to facilitate manipulation of results in key elections and in coordination with a technocrat oligarchy that amplified the approved messaging.

What surprised me is not the power grab, since the call to power is inherent in every politico, but it was how quickly we as a nation threw away freedoms for the false promises of security that would be provided for us in the ever near future if we would just obey now. Diehard rednecks and skeptical New Yorkers alike completely gave up any rational thought to follow the ever-changing diktats of the local and national regimes. When the children yelled out that the Emporer had no clothes, the crowd simply beat them and drove them away. This was the most terrifying thing. Not only was it perceived to be actual violence to speak against the propaganda approved for that day but even to mildly ask questions of it was to be an anathema to all society and to be blotted out at any cost. And no, it was not the government holding you down, it is your neighbor. Those whom you have known for 10+ years, now shun you and your children for not wearing a mask as the symbol of your adherence to the new religion of the righteous, they who worship the Science (so determined by the priests of the temple of the CDC). It is your neighbors and former friends who block you, who cheer loudly for keeping you from lifesaving healthcare because of your unvaccinated status, who call Child protective services to take your children from you because you have not given them to the state, who call for you to be fired from your job.

If this has taught me anything, it is just how far too easily we think that the German people were so different than us when they bought into the Goebbels propaganda machine. I always knew it could happen again, human nature being what it is but I thought in this country, with its inherent distrust of government, it would take more time. That there would be more warning. That's probably what the Jews thought too.

This round of totalitarian insanity seems to be dissipating due to the facts on the ground making it difficult to sustain the charade - but you can be sure, even as we speak, the seeds of the next wave have been sown in deep and fertile soil.
 
#28
#28
To the OP questions:

What I'd hope: it should push people away from single payer HC since it clearly demonstrated how arbitrary government decisions are and how draconian the government will be in enforcement of those decisions. Likewise I'd think it serves as a reminder of why the 2nd A exists vis a vis tyrannical government.

What I expect: no real impact on either issue - we seem evenly divided on the issues and those who welcomed the government control also tend to be advocates for single payer and more gun control and vice versa. Likely just cemented positions even further. I know it has for me - the government (local to Feds) has shown it's true face more than ever during this pandemic and it has just convinced me more that it should have less power rather than more.
 
#32
#32
You probably felt that way prior to Covid responses.

How do you think Independents in the middle feel?

Do you think this moved those in the middle closet to gun control or further away?

Further away. A lot of first time gun buyers and I think indirectly because of covid. I think there has been some loosening of trust in the government over the way it has been handled and the rising crime rates have people thinking they have to be prepared to defend themselves.
 
#33
#33
How about the middle 50% now?

More likely or less likely to embrace a National Healthcare system?

More likely, but because of the sheer amount of ignorance about the healthcare systems of here and the countries with "free" healthcare.
 
#34
#34
No, that's not correct. The issue with the sudden onset of covid was the need to ration care. The health care access issue is financial, not availability.

If healthcare is being rationed, isn't that the definition of restricted availability?
 
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#35
#35
To the OP, I think it cools both.

1. Far more new gun owners. I would think as people in the middle are more exposed they realize that more guns doesnt mean wild west. So they will be less supportive of anti gun measures.
2. I think it also cools the H4A talk, but because of the new found distrust for the CDC and FDA and their mouth pieces.
 
#36
#36
Quickest way to bring healthcare costs down:

1. Ban employer provided health insurance and group heath insurance.
2. Make all medical expenses and health insurance premiums 100% tax deductible.
3. Make all contributions to HSAs pre tax.
4. Ban advertising for drugs.

Yep. The current system we have in this country is a positive feedback system that continues to jack the prices up. Insurance is the primary culprit. Government takeover of it will simple cause shortages and rationing of care as mentioned above.

The most affordable surgery in America is plastic surgery, which is not covered by insurance.
 
#37
#37
To the OP questions:

What I'd hope: it should push people away from single payer HC since it clearly demonstrated how arbitrary government decisions are and how draconian the government will be in enforcement of those decisions. Likewise I'd think it serves as a reminder of why the 2nd A exists vis a vis tyrannical government.

What I expect: no real impact on either issue - we seem evenly divided on the issues and those who welcomed the government control also tend to be advocates for single payer and more gun control and vice versa. Likely just cemented positions even further. I know it has for me - the government (local to Feds) has shown it's true face more than ever during this pandemic and it has just convinced me more that it should have less power rather than more.
I think Universal Healthcare proponents missed a truly golden opportunity to show the American people that they could, and would, take care of them.

And I do believe we’ll immediately hear refrains of “no Healthcare for the unvaccinated” the next time #MedicareForAll surfaces.
 
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#38
#38
The one lasting impact is I did not previously foresee how quickly America (even in red states) could lurch toward a totalitarian, thought crime regime. And not just the feds but many governors quickly grabbed massive dictatorial powers based on very specious reasoning and were very loathe to give them up. Laws were quickly changed to facilitate manipulation of results in key elections and in coordination with a technocrat oligarchy that amplified the approved messaging.

What surprised me is not the power grab, since the call to power is inherent in every politico, but it was how quickly we as a nation threw away freedoms for the false promises of security that would be provided for us in the ever near future if we would just obey now. Diehard rednecks and skeptical New Yorkers alike completely gave up any rational thought to follow the ever-changing diktats of the local and national regimes. When the children yelled out that the Emporer had no clothes, the crowd simply beat them and drove them away. This was the most terrifying thing. Not only was it perceived to be actual violence to speak against the propaganda approved for that day but even to mildly ask questions of it was to be an anathema to all society and to be blotted out at any cost. And no, it was not the government holding you down, it is your neighbor. Those whom you have known for 10+ years, now shun you and your children for not wearing a mask as the symbol of your adherence to the new religion of the righteous, they who worship the Science (so determined by the priests of the temple of the CDC). It is your neighbors and former friends who block you, who cheer loudly for keeping you from lifesaving healthcare because of your unvaccinated status, who call Child protective services to take your children from you because you have not given them to the state, who call for you to be fired from your job.

If this has taught me anything, it is just how far too easily we think that the German people were so different than us when they bought into the Goebbels propaganda machine. I always knew it could happen again, human nature being what it is but I thought in this country, with its inherent distrust of government, it would take more time. That there would be more warning. That's probably what the Jews thought too.

This round of totalitarian insanity seems to be dissipating due to the facts on the ground making it difficult to sustain the charade - but you can be sure, even as we speak, the seeds of the next wave have been sown in deep and fertile soil.

Very well put. I have been surprised at the acceleration in acceptance of government control and willingness to impinge on the Bill of Rights. I've seen it for years, but how fast it swept in with this mess is frightening.

Those of us who do see it, have to do a better job of messaging if we hope to slow it down and I'm not sure it is possible to do that now.
 
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#39
#39
To the OP questions:

What I'd hope: it should push people away from single payer HC since it clearly demonstrated how arbitrary government decisions are and how draconian the government will be in enforcement of those decisions. Likewise I'd think it serves as a reminder of why the 2nd A exists vis a vis tyrannical government.

What I expect: no real impact on either issue - we seem evenly divided on the issues and those who welcomed the government control also tend to be advocates for single payer and more gun control and vice versa. Likely just cemented positions even further. I know it has for me - the government (local to Feds) has shown it's true face more than ever during this pandemic and it has just convinced me more that it should have less power rather than more.
And yes, the ends of the ideology spectrum are anchored and are not budging.

I was more thinking if those in the middle.

Normally we wouldn’t give 2 sh!ts what is happening in Australia or New Zealand but I bet people paid attention
 
#40
#40
Yep. The current system we have in this country is a positive feedback system that continues to jack the prices up. Insurance is the primary culprit. Government takeover of it will simple cause shortages and rationing of care as mentioned above.

The most affordable surgery in America is plastic surgery, which is not covered by insurance.
Not necessarily saying I dont believe you on that last but do you have a link? I would be interested to see how they compare the surgery types.
 
#41
#41
To the OP, I think it cools both.

1. Far more new gun owners. I would think as people in the middle are more exposed they realize that more guns doesnt mean wild west. So they will be less supportive of anti gun measures.
2. I think it also cools the H4A talk, but because of the new found distrust for the CDC and FDA and their mouth pieces.
People have long hated FBI, CBP, CIA… Covid didn’t change that.

But the CDC…. Not sure I’ve ever witnessed a Government Agency bomb out with the speed and intensity that Organization did.
 
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#42
#42
Not necessarily saying I dont believe you on that last but do you have a link? I would be interested to see how they compare the surgery types.

I do not have a link handy. I have read about it, however, a number of times over the years and, until shown something otherwise, accept it as believable.

To be fair, there are different levels of skill for plastic surgery and drastic swings in prices because of that, but that allows something for virtually everyone who wants it.
 
#43
#43
Not necessarily saying I dont believe you on that last but do you have a link? I would be interested to see how they compare the surgery types.

Average boob job $5-10k. Average gallbladder surgery $15-20k.
 

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