Healthcare & Guns in America: Lasting Impact of the Covid Response

[NCFisher]

The one lasting impact is I did not previously foresee how quickly America (even in red states) could lurch toward a totalitarian, thought crime regime. And not just the feds but many governors quickly grabbed massive dictatorial powers based on very specious reasoning and were very loathe to give them up. Laws were quickly changed to facilitate manipulation of results in key elections and in coordination with a technocrat oligarchy that amplified the approved messaging.

What surprised me is not the power grab, since the call to power is inherent in every politico, but it was how quickly we as a nation threw away freedoms for the false promises of security that would be provided for us in the ever near future if we would just obey now. Diehard rednecks and skeptical New Yorkers alike completely gave up any rational thought to follow the ever-changing diktats of the local and national regimes. When the children yelled out that the Emporer had no clothes, the crowd simply beat them and drove them away. This was the most terrifying thing. Not only was it perceived to be actual violence to speak against the propaganda approved for that day but even to mildly ask questions of it was to be an anathema to all society and to be blotted out at any cost. And no, it was not the government holding you down, it is your neighbor. Those whom you have known for 10+ years, now shun you and your children for not wearing a mask as the symbol of your adherence to the new religion of the righteous, they who worship the Science (so determined by the priests of the temple of the CDC). It is your neighbors and former friends who block you, who cheer loudly for keeping you from lifesaving healthcare because of your unvaccinated status, who call Child protective services to take your children from you because you have not given them to the state, who call for you to be fired from your job.

If this has taught me anything, it is just how far too easily we think that the German people were so different than us when they bought into the Goebbels propaganda machine. I always knew it could happen again, human nature being what it is but I thought in this country, with its inherent distrust of government, it would take more time. That there would be more warning. That's probably what the Jews thought too.

This round of totalitarian insanity seems to be dissipating due to the facts on the ground making it difficult to sustain the charade - but you can be sure, even as we speak, the seeds of the next wave have been sown in deep and fertile soil.

This round of totalitarian insanity seems to be dissipating due to the facts on the ground making it difficult to sustain the charade - but you can be sure, even as we speak, the seeds of the next wave have been sown in deep and fertile soil.[/QUOTE]

Very well stated.

 

[NCFisher]

I should have used blue font. Of course you still believe it. You just showed your hand. You believe healthcare is a right to people you deem worthy of it. Kind of like how you support unions. Unless they disagree with you on an issue like vaccine mandates.

Rights are not inherent, but granted if someone who disagrees with you feels benevolent.

 

[85SugarVol]

I’ve been thinking more on this topic.

The Gun conversation.
The Healthcare conversation.

The Covid response has irrevocably altered the trajectory of those conversations in America.

The Climate conversation.

The climate argument will be shaded by the memory of the Covid response. The resistance going forward will be even greater

 

[Vol423]

Quickest way to bring healthcare costs down:

1. Ban employer provided health insurance and group heath insurance.
2. Make all medical expenses and health insurance premiums 100% tax deductible.
3. Make all contributions to HSAs pre tax.
4. Ban advertising for drugs.

Please explain to me how making all medical expenses and health insurance premiums 100% tax deductible would do anything whatsoever to bring healthcare costs down. If anything, that would likely cause higher healthcare costs.

 

[hog88]

Please explain to me how making all medical expenses and health insurance premiums 100% tax deductible would do anything whatsoever to bring healthcare costs down. If anything, that would likely cause higher healthcare costs.

HC costs started spiraling out of control when people stopped having to pay out of their pocket, employer provided insurance plans. It's my theory that if the majority of people carried only catastrophic insurance and paid out of pocket for normal preventative care people and their providers would be talking costs.

 

[Vol423]

HC costs started spiraling out of control when people stopped having to pay out of their pocket, employer provided insurance plans. It's my theory that if the majority of people carried only catastrophic insurance and paid out of pocket for normal preventative care people and their providers would be talking costs.

That is an absolutely horrible idea. Individuals have no negotiating power. Large groups do.

 

[GroverCleveland]

That is an absolutely horrible idea. Individuals have no negotiating power. Large groups do.

Yes they do. As a market.

Look at what happened to the cost of college. As student loans flooded the market, the price of college education has skyrocketed. If student loans were no longer available, college costs would drop like a rock dropped off a skyscraper. Not exactly a perfect analogy, but it does illustrate what happens when the money source is not directly making the purchase decision.

Our current inflationary problem has been generously helped out by the Federal government flooding the country with cash that has practically been printed.

Health insurance disassociated the consumer from the price consideration. Prices have no where to go but up. See the example of plastic surgery (non-insured) vs. other surgery in terms of cost.

 

[OHvol40]

Yes they do. As a market.

Look at what happened to the cost of college. As student loans flooded the market, the price of college education has skyrocketed. If student loans were no longer available, college costs would drop like a rock dropped off a skyscraper. Not exactly a perfect analogy, but it does illustrate what happens when the money source is not directly making the purchase decision.

Our current inflationary problem has been generously helped out by the Federal government flooding the country with cash that has practically been printed.

Health insurance disassociated the consumer from the price consideration. Prices have no where to go but up. See the example of plastic surgery (non-insured) vs. other surgery in terms of cost.

HC costs used to be under control when insurance companies and HC organizations were separate. The insurance companies kept the HC charges in check and negotiated fair prices. Now HC providers and insurance providers are married (if not the exact same entity) so all of the cost is passed on to the consumer and there is no check on that cost.

It blows my mind when I hear people say “I don’t want to lose my PPO/EPO/HMO.” Why? You love it when they deny you coverage or what? What do you love about it?

 

[EasternVol]

NM, already stated

 

[norrislakevol]

Yep. The current system we have in this country is a positive feedback system that continues to jack the prices up. Insurance is the primary culprit. Government takeover of it will simple cause shortages and rationing of care as mentioned above.

The most affordable surgery in America is plastic surgery, which is not covered by insurance.

Absolutely, anytime you have a 3rd party payer whether it be government or insurance it makes things much more expensive.

 

[norrislakevol]

The one lasting impact is I did not previously foresee how quickly America (even in red states) could lurch toward a totalitarian, thought crime regime. And not just the feds but many governors quickly grabbed massive dictatorial powers based on very specious reasoning and were very loathe to give them up. Laws were quickly changed to facilitate manipulation of results in key elections and in coordination with a technocrat oligarchy that amplified the approved messaging.

What surprised me is not the power grab, since the call to power is inherent in every politico, but it was how quickly we as a nation threw away freedoms for the false promises of security that would be provided for us in the ever near future if we would just obey now. Diehard rednecks and skeptical New Yorkers alike completely gave up any rational thought to follow the ever-changing diktats of the local and national regimes. When the children yelled out that the Emporer had no clothes, the crowd simply beat them and drove them away. This was the most terrifying thing. Not only was it perceived to be actual violence to speak against the propaganda approved for that day but even to mildly ask questions of it was to be an anathema to all society and to be blotted out at any cost. And no, it was not the government holding you down, it is your neighbor. Those whom you have known for 10+ years, now shun you and your children for not wearing a mask as the symbol of your adherence to the new religion of the righteous, they who worship the Science (so determined by the priests of the temple of the CDC). It is your neighbors and former friends who block you, who cheer loudly for keeping you from lifesaving healthcare because of your unvaccinated status, who call Child protective services to take your children from you because you have not given them to the state, who call for you to be fired from your job.

If this has taught me anything, it is just how far too easily we think that the German people were so different than us when they bought into the Goebbels propaganda machine. I always knew it could happen again, human nature being what it is but I thought in this country, with its inherent distrust of government, it would take more time. That there would be more warning. That's probably what the Jews thought too.

This round of totalitarian insanity seems to be dissipating due to the facts on the ground making it difficult to sustain the charade - but you can be sure, even as we speak, the seeds of the next wave have been sown in deep and fertile soil.

Absolutely 100 percent correct.

 

[norrislakevol]

Thanks for posting the link to the poll.

Wow. An almost 20 point drop in approval for stricter gun control (since Parkland).

Why do you think Butthole O' Rourke went from saying "Hell yes, we are going to take your AR15, your AK47" To: "The thing we need to focus on is protecting the second amendment". The dems only care about power and will say anything to get it.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Why do you think Butthole O' Rourke went from saying "Hell yes, we are going to take your AR15, your AK47" To: "The thing we need to focus on is protecting the second amendment". The dems only care about power and will say anything to get it.

They overplayed their hand. When Barrack was elected and re-elected, the Leftists thought they were done. Enough people were now convinced that government is the only solution to their problems and the Left would now be in charge henceforth. So we get "we're going to take your guns," "Defund the Police," "(only) Black Lives Matter," etc, etc.

But a funny happened on the way to the circus. The country voted in anti-establishment Trump. And they are PISSED about it.

EDIT: Forgot "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" and that the Affordable Care Act would lower health insurance costs. It has done the opposite for the people who actually pay for healthcare.