Heath Shuler vs. Peyton Manning

#201
#201
114VOL said:
This is a laughable thread. While Shuler had tons of talent, Peyton was, by far, the better QB

A more appropriate comparison would be Tony Robinson vs. Peyton Manning. Had Robinson not torn his knee against Alabama in 1985, he likely would have won the Heisman. Fans near my age and older might tell you that Robinson was a better QB at UT than Manning when analyzing game by game in the statistic of total games played at QB.

Shuler was awesone, but not the equal of Manning or Robinson.
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if robinson hadn't got hurt,tn would have won an nc that year.
 
#202
#202
It isn't as blasphemous as it sounds.

I would venture to say Peyton improved exponentially after his college days. Not a knock on our coaches, just a testament to him. Only modern QB who may have gotten better by more would be Tom Brady.
 
#203
#203
loggervol said:
I think jeff francis,casey clausen and tee martin are in the top ten.
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Yep, I wouldn't argue although both Charley Fulton and Dewey Warren might garner some votes for all time top ten.

This should put some perspective on the ranking of Eric Ainge. While he had flashes of brilliance, he folded up like a chaise lounge far too often for my taste. Not just his sophomore year, but at times later in his freshman season all the way through his senior season. If I were ranking all the starting QBs (at least 11 games) of the QB era, this is my list

Tony Robinson
Peyton Manning
Condredge Holloway
Heath Shuler
Alan Cockrell
Andy Kelley
Bobby Scott
Casey Clausen
Tee Martin
Jeff Francis
Jimmy Streater
Charley Fulton
Pat Ryan
Dewey Warren
Eric Ainge
Tyler Bray
 
#204
#204
This is an interesting debate. We don't have the original context of Coach Cutcliffe's remarks, but I will go out on the limb and assume that he was referring strictly to physical talent, as opposed to who was the better overall quarterback, given the fact that so much of performance at that position is predicated upon cerebral grasp of the offense and the ability to dissect opposing defenses. I would agree that Tony Robinson and Heath Shuler both had stronger arms than Peyton and both certainly were more mobile than the cerebral assassin. However, I would also argue that Peyton was the more accomplished and more complete quarterback; he was a true field general.

I will have to disagree with previous contributors regarding the ultimate outcome of the '85 season, had Tony not gone down with the season-ending knee injury. Despite the fact that the '85 defense played extremely well against Auburn in the first half, that unit gave up 75 points in the first three games; they were downright porous. It is my considered opinion that the '85 team relied too heavily on the superstar, and Tony was indeed that. I have never seen a team rally around a fallen comrade like that team did after Robinson's injury; the defense gave up only 34 points in the last 7 games, including the 35-7 annihilation of Miami. I have serious doubts that the defense would have elevated its game to that level if Tony had not been injured.

Let's also give Dickey credit for having a marvelously efficient season in 1985. Despite his obvious physical limitations, he finished 85 of 131 (64.9%) for 1161 yards and 10 touchdowns, with only 1 interception. Granted, those stats were achieved against the softer half of the schedule, but Tony was, by contrast, 91 of 143 (63.6%) for 1246 yards and eight touchdowns, with seven interceptions.

Incidentally, here are some career stats comparing Tony with Dewey Warren, who was the nation's most efficient passer in 1966:

Robinson: 253-411 (61.6%) for 3332 yards and 23 touchdowns.

Warren: 258-440 (58.6%) for 3357 yards and 27 touchdowns. Keep in mind that Warren played in an era when many NFL quarterbacks only completed 50% of their passes.

Incidentally, Dewey was a much more accurate passer than Bobby Scott, who posted the following career stats: 236-498 (47.4%) for 3371 yards and 32 touchdowns. See p. 188 of ISSUU - 2013 media guide 125 208 by The University of Tennessee Athletics Department.
 
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#206
#206
loggervol said:
the redskins ruined shuler.when they said he held out for more money,it caused problems with the oline.imo


peyton was a better qb though but not as much as people think.
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The Redskins didn't ruin Shuler. He did it to himself by holding out and then when he finally signed, couldn't grasp the offense. Honestly, Shuler was one of UT's less cerebral QBs. He's not the brightest star shining in the sky. One of the reasons he couldn't separate himself from Jerry Colquitt in fall camp of 1992 was because he was having trouble grasping UT's offense. Thank God for Shuler that when he was bewildered in the pocket, he had the ability to take off and run.
 
#207
#207
114VOL said:
This is a laughable thread. While Shuler had tons of talent, Peyton was, by far, the better QB

A more appropriate comparison would be Tony Robinson vs. Peyton Manning. Had Robinson not torn his knee against Alabama in 1985, he likely would have won the Heisman. Fans near my age and older might tell you that Robinson was a better QB at UT than Manning when analyzing game by game in the statistic of total games played at QB.

Shuler was awesone, but not the equal of Manning or Robinson.
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Robinson was a very good qb. One of the best college qb's I have ever watched. That cocaine conviction did not help further Tony's career.

Imo the best qb I have saw play in Neyland was Condredge Holloway
 
#210
#210
In Butch's offense, I would take Shuler. In any other offense we ever had in my lifetime, I would take Peyton hands down. Shuler, though, is more athletic and had the strongest arm of any QB at UT outside of Tony Robinson. Peyton's accuracy, though, is frightening.
 
#211
#211
Redlegs said:
In an interview last year, David Cutcliffe said Heath Shuler was the most talented college quarterback he'd ever coached. Considering Peyton Manning passed through Rocky Top after Heath, that's a hell of a statement.

Although the stats lean toward Peyton, Heath Shuler was a great quarterback in his own right. That begs the question of who would you want to quarterback one college game for you, Heath Shuler or Peyton Manning?
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There is a difference in being talented and using that talent to the best of your ability. Just ask Bray. Schuler was/is a douche.
 
#212
#212
Redlegs said:
In an interview last year, David Cutcliffe said Heath Shuler was the most talented college quarterback he'd ever coached. Considering Peyton Manning passed through Rocky Top after Heath, that's a hell of a statement.

Although the stats lean toward Peyton, Heath Shuler was a great quarterback in his own right. That begs the question of who would you want to quarterback one college game for you, Heath Shuler or Peyton Manning?
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I agree with Cut, at that particular time Shuler had more intangables...he could win with his feet as well as his arm....he was amazing to watch. Please bare in mind this was in college and being mobil had a distinct advantage at that time.
 
#213
#213
iluvsmesumdooley said:
In Butch's offense, I would take Shuler. In any other offense we ever had in my lifetime, I would take Peyton hands down. Shuler, though, is more athletic and had the strongest arm of any QB at UT outside of Tony Robinson. Peyton's accuracy, though, is frightening.
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While Shuler had an adequate arm, it wasn't the second strongest of the UT QBs. Dewey Warren had a cannon. So did Alan Cockrell. Holloway had a cannon as did Randy Wallace

One of the knocks against Shuler in the NFL was that he didn't have adequate velocity on the deep out pattern.
 
#214
#214
Peyton and Heath were both highly driven, but in different ways. Peyton took it on himself to develop into the best QB he could possibly be. Heath took it on himself to score touchdowns.
 
#215
#215
Note that Cut said that Shuler was the "most talented" and not the "best quarterback." And, you cannot dismiss the fact that Shuler was an incredibly talented athlete. He could run it and throw it effectively.

If honest, Cut would probably say that Peyton and Eli were better "quarterbacks" than Shuler. Not that Shuler wasn't good in college. It is just that those two brothers were/are great QBs.
 
#217
#217
Week in and week out, I'd take Manning every week! Shuler was an athelete. Manning a truer QB.
 
#218
#218
knoxvols1 said:
Week in and week out, I'd take Manning every week! Shuler was an athelete. Manning a truer QB.
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Absolutely! No debate. Shuler was, and still is, dead from the neck up. Had to signicantly dumb down the offense for him to grasp and be successful. There was no dumbing down to be done in the NFL and we saw the result.
 
#219
#219
I think Shuler is the best college QB I ever saw in person. Manning was great and he was a technician and it makes sense that he had the longer career, but Shuler just seemed more explosive/dynamic, more of a game-changer.
 
#220
#220
When Shuler was a freshman Majors said the was the best athelete he ever saw! Then he helped Fulmer with the back stabbing.
 
#221
#221
I remember watching Shuler play. He was a tough kid that could power run with the ball,unlike Manning. He was a very good passer also. Shuler didn't do well in the Pro's though. He was stuck with a terrible Redskins team.
 
#223
#223
Thanks for posting this ... Didn't get much on Shuler here but it did remind me what a beast Charlie Garner was. Shuler had 1 decent year and 1 very good year as UT's QB. Anyone even remotely trying to argue that Shuler was a better QB at UT than Peyton either didn't pay attention or can't evaluate quarterback play IMHO.
 
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