Here is my real problem.

#52
#52
You guys can try to spin this how you want, and its only 1 game, and I agree. Here is the meat of the problem:

This is winning conference co-championships in the Big East:

Sagarin Ratings
2011
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30
30 Cincinnati 10 3 68.43( 73) 0 0 | 0 1

2012
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30
45 Cincinnati 9 3 63.85( 99) 0 0 | 0 0

He played the 73rd and 99th ranked schedules in the last 2 years, and 1 team in the top 30, which he lost too. Oh, and his first year, he played the 38th toughest schedule and went 4 and 8. The cherry on top is getting ran out of the stadium by a Dooley coached team. You can also take a gander at the records of the teams he beat the last 2 years, and the ones he lost too, and it doesn't look any better. For you VFLs, or true fans, etc., maybe he will be better here.
 
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#55
#55
N
PPPpartsp3 said:
You guys can try to spin this how you want, and its only 1 game, and I agree. Here is the meat of the problem:

This is winning conference co-championships in the Big East:

Sagarin Ratings
2011
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30
30 Cincinnati 10 3 68.43( 73) 0 0 | 0 1

2012
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30
45 Cincinnati 9 3 63.85( 99) 0 0 | 0 0

He played the 73rd and 99th ranked schedules in the last 2 years, and 1 team in the top 30, which he lost too. Oh, and his first year, he played the 38th toughest schedule and went 4 and 8. The cherry on top is getting ran out of the stadium by a Dooley coached team. You can also take a gander at the records of the teams he beat the last 2 years, and the ones he lost too, and it doesn't look any better. For you VFLs, or true fans, etc., maybe he will be better here.
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Cincinnati is in the Big East. They're not going to have a high ranking schedule. You can't fault them for being what they are. With this same logic, in 2014, I assume colleges are going to say why would we hire Bobby Petrino? Western Kentucky had a horrible strength of schedule in 2013. I don't think so.
 
#56
#56
I'm too lazy to argue this point (because I feel like it has been ad nauseum) but take a look at Urban Meyer BEFORE Florida in his tenure during Utah and Bowling Green. Saban before LSU (at Toledo and Michigan State). Winners win...and our biggest mistake in the Dooley hire was we forgot to hire a guy that wins. Winners win---so who is to say that BJ isn't coming into this situation better equip and prepared. These coaches didn't just spontaneously appear in the SEC kicking a$$---they proved it in less talented and less prestigious conferences. I'm not going to say BJ will do that here---but we've screwed up here the last couple of hires and it's backfired. We passed on Sumlin and Kelly...this guy could make it work here.
 
#57
#57
NeoVol said:
N

Cincinnati is in the Big East. They're not going to have a high ranking schedule. You can't fault them for being what they are. With this same logic, in 2014, I assume colleges are going to say why would we hire Bobby Petrino? Western Kentucky had a horrible strength of schedule in 2013. I don't think so.
Click to expand...

This makes no sense at all. Petrino has won at Louisville, and Arkansas. He has at least beat 1 top 30 team in his entire career. I am sure its more than that, but I don't care to look. The issue is that he hasn't hardly played anyone, but when he did in 2010, he got killed, and the one top 30 team he played in 2011 he lost too also. The point is that its going to be a lot tougher in the SEC, as there are no more Dooleys to play here, and the only time he did play one, he got killed.
 
#58
#58
NeoVol said:
N

Cincinnati is in the Big East. They're not going to have a high ranking schedule. You can't fault them for being what they are. With this same logic, in 2014, I assume colleges are going to say why would we hire Bobby Petrino? Western Kentucky had a horrible strength of schedule in 2013. I don't think so.
Click to expand...

I am going to reply to this post again, because I got another laugh out of it. In 2010 Cincy's schedule was 38th according to Sagarin, and UT's was 46th. BJ went 4 and 8 and Dooley went 6 and 7. Also, Kelly went 12 and 0 with Cincy the year before.
 
#60
#60
PPPpartsp3 said:
This makes no sense at all. Petrino has won at Louisville, and Arkansas. He has at least beat 1 top 30 team in his entire career. I am sure its more than that, but I don't care to look. The issue is that he hasn't hardly played anyone, but when he did in 2010, he got killed, and the one top 30 team he played in 2011 he lost too also. The point is that its going to be a lot tougher in the SEC, as there are no more Dooleys to play here, and the only time he did play one, he got killed.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point. They don't play "anyone" because they're not in a conference with "anyone." How many top 30 teams is Cincinnati supposed to play? They don't attract the same level of talent because every recruit that is worth anything around there goes to the Big Ten or ends up in the SEC.
 
#61
#61
NeoVol said:
You're missing the point. They don't play "anyone" because they're not in a conference with "anyone." How many top 30 teams is Cincinnati supposed to play? They don't attract the same level of talent because every recruit that is worth anything around there goes to the Big Ten or ends up in the SEC.
Click to expand...

Last 2 years.

Total record of opponents Butch Jones beat at Cincinnati: 97 – 131

Total record of opponents who beat Butch Jones at Cincinnati: 52 – 22

W: 5-7, 3-9, 4-7, 7-5, 6-5(Fordham, FCS), 4-8, 6-6, 6-5(Del. St, FCS), 6-6, 3-8(Austin Peay, FCS), 1-11, 8-5, 4-8, 7-6, 5-7, 6-7, 6-7, 5-7, 5-7

L: 9-3, 10-2, 9-3, 5-7, 10-3, 9-4
 
#62
#62
NeoVol said:
You're missing the point. They don't play "anyone" because they're not in a conference with "anyone." How many top 30 teams is Cincinnati supposed to play? They don't attract the same level of talent because every recruit that is worth anything around there goes to the Big Ten or ends up in the SEC.
Click to expand...

The point is that his "winning" and "championships" is very suspect. Its like being the skinniest fatkid.
 
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#63
#63
I'd say winning a championship on any level in major college football proves a lot of things...how many of those did Dooley haul in?
 
#64
#64
volswillrise12 said:
I'd say winning a championship on any level in major college football proves a lot of things...how many of those did Dooley haul in?
Click to expand...

Dooley sucks, he hasn't won any and never will.

The "championships" are all 3 or 4 way tie championships, and his team did not go to the best bowl that the other ones he was tied with went too. They were lower in the BCS standings. Kind of like winning a co-SEC east championship, and not even going to Championship game.
 
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#65
#65
PPPpartsp3 said:
You guys can try to spin this how you want, and its only 1 game, and I agree. Here is the meat of the problem:

This is winning conference co-championships in the Big East:

Sagarin Ratings
2011
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30
30 Cincinnati 10 3 68.43( 73) 0 0 | 0 1

2012
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30
45 Cincinnati 9 3 63.85( 99) 0 0 | 0 0

He played the 73rd and 99th ranked schedules in the last 2 years, and 1 team in the top 30, which he lost too. Oh, and his first year, he played the 38th toughest schedule and went 4 and 8. The cherry on top is getting ran out of the stadium by a Dooley coached team. You can also take a gander at the records of the teams he beat the last 2 years, and the ones he lost too, and it doesn't look any better. For you VFLs, or true fans, etc., maybe he will be better here.
Click to expand...

You do realize that the more games you win, the worst your schedule looks, right? And the more games you lose, the better your schedule becomes? Because everything you win a game, your opponents lose one.

So what if he played a bad schedule? He also had poor talent, so I think it was fairly even. And yet he still had two seasons of 9 wins or more, I'm impressed.
 
#66
#66
Vol8188 said:
Not quite the same, but the point is still valid. When the talent gap is too large, even great coaching can't make a difference.
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Question do you believe there is a talent gap between UT and UGA and UF and SC and Alabama?
 
#68
#68
Vol8188 said:
You do realize that the more games you win, the worst your schedule looks, right? And the more games you lose, the better your schedule becomes? Because everything you win a game, your opponents lose one.

So what if he played a bad schedule? He also had poor talent, so I think it was fairly even. And yet he still had two seasons of 9 wins or more, I'm impressed.
Click to expand...

Wow, sad. Beating winning teams makes your schedule look good. I am not impressed by him being the skinniest fatkid. Beating up on nobodies. Here are a couple of examples that blow up your theory.

W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30
8 Stanford 11 2 78.50( 6) 1 1 | 7 1

9 Oklahoma 10 2 78.59( 5) 0 2 | 6 2 |
 
#69
#69
PPPpartsp3 said:
Wow, sad. Beating winning teams makes your schedule look good. I am not impressed by him being the skinniest fatkid. Beating up on nobodies. Here are a couple of examples that blow up your theory.

W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30
8 Stanford 11 2 78.50( 6) 1 1 | 7 1

9 Oklahoma 10 2 78.59( 5) 0 2 | 6 2 |
Click to expand...

It's not a theory it's called math. If you win 10 games, your opponents lost 10 more games. The more you win, the lower your strength of schedule becomes.

And he didn't beat up on a bunch of nobodies.
Some of his notable victories:
2011: Vandy, UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, NC St, and Louisville.
2012: Syracuse, UConn, Va Tech, and Pitt.

Not bad at all. Not SEC caliber, but last time I checked he didn't have SEC caliber talent or resources at Cincy.
 
#75
#75
Vol8188 said:
It's not a theory it's called math. If you win 10 games, your opponents lost 10 more games. The more you win, the lower your strength of schedule becomes.

And he didn't beat up on a bunch of nobodies.
Some of his notable victories:
2011: Vandy, UConn, Pitt, Syracuse, NC St, and Louisville.
2012: Syracuse, UConn, Va Tech, and Pitt.

Not bad at all. Not SEC caliber, but last time I checked he didn't have SEC caliber talent or resources at Cincy.
Click to expand...

Using your "math," what is your schedule rank going to be if you beat every opponent you play, and that is the only game each of them lose? Most calculations of schedule strength involve records of teams you play, records of teams they play, and some involve home field advantage, and others take the score into account. Its a lot more complicated then you are making it out to be, as you are trying to rationalize a guy that has won against easier schedules than he is likely to have going forward.
 
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