Hey cuonzo

#51
#51
walkenvol said:
So you’re saying those 4 aren’t “several strong pieces”?
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I'm saying that Tyndall waltzed in to two guys that combined averaged 15.4/ppg while Martin had to have 4 to match that. Those 2 were as strong as the 4 "strongest" that Martin had. As CNC mentioned above, they BECAME strong pieces, but they sure as hell weren't when Martin took over.
 
#52
#52
walkenvol said:
I respect your opinion, but it’s impossible for me to see someone given an opportunity and $millions as a victim. He inherited several strong pieces. Recruit hard and put a product on the court that’s competing for league championships and he would still be here. I sure wish I’d been given such an opportunity to fail in my lifetime. Dude has now failed at 3 different P5 jobs and gotten rich in the process but some folks think (not saying you) it’s because of some bias due to his skin color.
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I loved Bruce Pearl a decade ago, but I thought he had to go. I was more than optimistic about Martin. I had the hope and belief he would have success. His style of basketball and style of play was such a turn-off for me that I just couldn’t digest his brand. The slow, deliberate pace vs. the frenetic, upbeat pace of Pearl. I think the majority of fans were willing to be supportive, but then he was dealing with underachievement as well. I was actually kind of sad for Martin based on the number of fans at that game last night. If you’re going to lose a lot, better to lose playing an uptempo, flashy game. Unfortunately, Cuonzo doesn’t have that, either.
 
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#53
#53
Let me rephrase then. I find it hard to have any sympathy for anyone who was given a multimillion dollar opportunity to coach an athletic team and then they quit when they didn’t produce enough wins to avoid a hot seat. As you said he has proven himself at 3 different places to be a below average P5 coach. He must be an awesome interview to keep getting opportunities. None of these are an affront to the quality of his character, simply results produced over a large sample size.
 
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#54
#54
whobethis16 said:
I'm saying that Tyndall waltzed in to two guys that combined averaged 15.4/ppg while Martin had to have 4 to match that. Those 2 were as strong as the 4 "strongest" that Martin had. As CNC mentioned above, they BECAME strong pieces, but they sure as hell weren't when Martin took over.
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It could also be argued look at their recruiting rankings and who they were playing behind under CBP. Doesn’t matter as we all agree there was some good returning talent to work with and your the only person who keeps mentioning Tydell who has zero to do with Martin
 
#55
#55
TennVols12 said:
You’re an idiot.
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okay, both of you need to grow up.

interesting thing about that cuonzo team. we had just lost to a ho-hum NC State team that should have had no business competing with us on our home floor. that was the moment the fanbase turned on martin and all of the "we want bruce pearl back" fire started again. it was then that the team dug in and started really playing hard and went on that great run. i think a lot of the momentum that year came from the players "having cuonzo's back" because they were hurt he was being torched by the fans, message boards and local media. imo cuonzo never had that team focused until after the backlash started.
 
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#56
#56
Ghost of Archvol said:
okay, both of you need to grow up.

interesting thing about that cuonzo team. we had just lost to a ho-hum NC State team that should have had no business competing with us on our home floor. that was the moment the fanbase turned on martin and all of the "we want bruce pearl back" fire started again. it was then that the team dug in and started really playing hard and went on that great run. i think a lot of the momentum that year came from the players "having cuonzo's back" because they were hurt he was being torched by the fans, message boards and local media. imo cuonzo never had that team focused until after the backlash started.
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If that was a premeditated coaching maneuver by CCM then it generated results. Alas it’s hard to imagine it as such
 
#57
#57
BigOrangeMojo said:
I remember being in Nashville at the SEC Tourney in 2013 when they played bad and lost to Bama in Y2. The stuff I heard that day from a small minority of our fanbase was disgusting. If I heard it that day, you know he heard it and his spouse heard it at her business.

Barnes got criticized for sure after Y2 but nothing to the extent that I heard that day in Nashville.
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That's unfortunate to hear. I was at UT at the time. I hated that we played boring basketball and couldn't make the tourney. I'm unaware of what happened at her business. I think rational fans can all agree that whatever it was is unacceptable. Every big coaching job in the country has a small minority that sling terrible things at players, coaches, etc.
 
#58
#58
I think we are far better with CRB, but the hate for CCM after he left is misplaced. He doesn't bring an exciting brand of BB, but he righted the program after Dandy Donnie dang near killed it. I don't think he was a long term fit, but I don't think the fans were particularly fair to him initially, or since his departure.
 
#59
#59
Volinnooga said:
I think we are far better with CRB, but the hate for CCM after he left is misplaced. He doesn't bring an exciting brand of BB, but he righted the program after Dandy Donnie dang near killed it. I don't think he was a long term fit, but I don't think the fans were particularly fair to him initially, or since his departure.
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Dandy Donnie?
 
#61
#61
BigOrangeMojo said:
I see three arguments in this thread.

1. Cuonzo was mistreated because he was not a very good coach. His teams tended to choke away games late and as the past several years have taught us, he is not a very good head coach.

2. Cuonzo was mistreated because he was not Bruce Pearl. That is true as well. He didn't have the flair, he wasn't in public as much, he didn't run the same type of offense.

3. Cuonzo was mistreated by a portion of the fan base because of his skin color. Let's not have revisionist history here. A portion of the fan and booster base mistreated him for that reason. Those closest and playing within the program have said the same thing. After 3 years, Coach A was 57-44 with 1 tourney win and 1 postseason appearance. Coach B was 63-41 with 3 NCAA wins and 3 postseason appearances (NIT and NCAA). Coach A was Rick Barnes, Coach B was Cuonzo Martin. Look at how they were treated by the fanbase after Year 3. This isn't a a UT issue but it's an issue in all leagues today. It's how guys like Jim Caldwell and Tony Dungy get fired after 1 bad season but guys like Jeff Fisher can sputter around for a decade after their peak.
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Don't know about all that, but the reason I didn't like him was NOT skin color. It was his desire to just watch the game from the sideline, most nights he should have been charged admission like the rest of us
 
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#62
#62
walkenvol said:
It could also be argued look at their recruiting rankings and who they were playing behind under CBP. Doesn’t matter as we all agree there was some good returning talent to work with and your the only person who keeps mentioning Tydell who has zero to do with Martin
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"Keeps", when I've only mentioned him once. Come on, man.
 
#63
#63
Coach Martin was...fine. The program is significantly better now under Coach Barnes, despite fans complaints about stagnant offenses and the lack of deep NCAA tourney runs. The man knows when to make an exit, and he's no longer our problem, why the continued hatred?
 
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#64
#64
Volinnooga said:
I think we are far better with CRB, but the hate for CCM after he left is misplaced. He doesn't bring an exciting brand of BB, but he righted the program after Dandy Donnie dang near killed it. I don't think he was a long term fit, but I don't think the fans were particularly fair to him initially, or since his departure.
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So the fact that fans in this area took offense to him using the team plane to go interview for another job and paint a majority of the fanbase racist because of his own failures is misplaced? Not to mention he used his crutch to turn the players on the fans as well. All Tyndall inherited was Richardson. Stokes left early and a couple of other guys transferred. Cuonzo is a race hustling phony that created nothing but division on his way out the door. Amazes me how some low character people get a pass because of their crutch.
 
#65
#65
I personally had rather concentrate on the program we have now and the quality of people running it. CCM is a decent man but clearly is having trouble being successful as a Div 1 coach. It’s so disingenuous to enter race into an obvious NOT race situation. He’s had plenty of opportunities in this business. Hopefully for his sake he will eventually have success at some level. I wish him well!
 
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#67
#67
VegasBaby! said:
Really. Since Tennessee' first appearance NCAA tournament in 1967, only 2 Tennessee Men's Basketball teams have won 3 games within the same NCAA tournament. Martin's 2014 team was 1 of the 2.

Were you one of the 10,000 racist idiots?
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Cool way of saying he won a play in game.... considering the talent he had on the roster he underachieved at UT.

Multiple bad losses per year + Boring style = Cuonzo
 
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#68
#68
cncchris33 said:
Well, there is quite a bit of room between what I said and calling CCM a victim. I didn't even insinuate that. Like you said, it's difficult to paint someone making millions of dollars as a victim.

The "several strong pieces" he inherited were not strong pieces when he inherited them.
•Tatum: 8.8 pts, 3.1 rebs, 2.3 assts (and bad knees)
•Golden: 3.0 pts, 1.1 rebs, 2.2 assts
•Maymon: 2.6 pts, 2.8 rebs, 0.2 assts
•McRae: 1.8 pts, 0.8 rebs, 0.0 assts
That is what he inherited. Potential? Sure, but next to nothing in terms of production. In fact, you could argue that CCM and his staff are the reasons for their development.

Lastly, we agree that he isn't even average on his best day, as a coach.
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If only he had inherited Steven Pearl for one more year to complement that group.
 
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#72
#72
VegasBaby! said:
Really. Since Tennessee' first appearance NCAA tournament in 1967, only 2 Tennessee Men's Basketball teams have won 3 games within the same NCAA tournament. Martin's 2014 team was 1 of the 2.

Were you one of the 10,000 racist idiots?
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Frank Martin at USC jr says hello! 1 good year doesn’t make him a great coach. They both suck and are both named Martin conveniently!
 
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