Hey Obama, look up in the Sky!!! Pathetic but Funny.

[OrangeEmpire]

Believe me, I'm regretting it.

You gov't lovin hippie!

:the_finger:

 

[gsvol]

His mother was American, it doesn't matter.

Then why all the law suits filed???

Several are pending from a former presidential candidate.

Exactly, this is why I have no problem with any president trying to keep certain aspects of their life from being public knowledge.

But if those aspects have a legal bearing on the legality of any situation, then that evidence must be produced in court.

one of the multitude of reasons that I can get along with you and people like you. You have the ability to think critically and logically.

Oh, I'm hurt, you're implying you can't get along with me.

Yeah..that's all I do in these conversations...equate Christianity and Islam.....:crazy:

...should have said religious, not church, I guess....but I'm pretty sure everyone knew what I meant...

Well you could have said 'mosque' since we were discussing islam as it relates to politics.

Your favorite non-sequiturs; islam to religion to Christian churches.

If you want to discuss what is said from the pulpit in churches, let's discuss what is taught in the marxist black liberation theology church that the Obama family attended for over twenty years.

Shhhh... don't argue with the always honest, truth-bringer.

Honestly, getting your opinion on the Qadaffi/Obama support of Odinga and his marxist/muslim politics in Kenya has been as difficult as extracting an impacted wisdom tooth.

 

[emainvol]

Then why all the law suits filed???

Several are pending from a former presidential candidate.

Fine, I can play that game, too. Why have the majority of them been thrown out?

 

[TennTradition]

Well you could have said 'mosque' since we were discussing islam as it relates to politics.

Your favorite non-sequiturs; islam to religion to Christian churches.

If you want to discuss what is said from the pulpit in churches, let's discuss what is taught in the marxist black liberation theology church that the Obama family attended for over twenty years.

I didn't want to say mosque leaders because that's not necessarily who I'm talking about. You have all kinds of mosque leaders who aren't in the spiritual/political positions of power in Islamic states. My use of the words "church leaders" was meant to refer to their religious leaders at a political level - thus the ones setting Islamic law policy for the various Islamic states.

I swear 90% of the people in this thread would have realized that is what I meant.

And - where in the world are you coming from when claiming my favorite non sequitur is islam to religion to Christian churches. I don't even participate in most of these discussions and didn't do that here. You took my comments and ran with them in a direction that most people wouldn't. I guess that serves your agenda of painting people into the corners you want them, but you can leave me out of that crap.

I'll carry on conversations with you about things I care about and that I think you are providing a too one-sided and intellectually dishonest view of, but there's no way I'm going waste my time with this bull. Islam vs. Christianity is something that I can barely get interested in , and you and your ridiculous assertions make it all the easier to ignore. That is obviously when the politics forum passes from enjoyable banter to swatting at an annoying gnat.

 

[gsvol]

We are talking about two completely different things here. Odinga, MoU. Ring a bell, or have you completely forgotten that you produced an apparently "official" document that lacked witness signatures?

There was no way it could be 'official' since Odinga didn't hold office, it was meant to be a secret agreement but somehow was leaked.

I thought I might get a critical, (if perhaps illogical) response from you on Obama's support of Odinga, (after your months of denial that the episode ever happened) and if maybe you thought that might have any bearing as to what we might expect from the Obama administration here in America, plus that might just open the door to further discussions of current events and political situations all over Africa, a topic that most posters seem reluctant to discuss.

No less than the head of the Carnegie foundation (an Armenian immigrant) has said that one of our biggest problems has been the failure to American media to accurately report world events.

I see you replaced me with gsv as your new post padding buddy.

Hey, no hitting on my date pal!! :no:

@gsvol

Also, and this is probably an understatement, I would think that constructive debate with you for ANYONE is a rarity.

With that said, why do you even feel the need to respond to me anymore if I am so dense?

I thought I might get a critical, (if somewhat illogical) response from you on Obama's support of Odinga, (after your months of denial that the episode ever happened) and if maybe you thought that might have any bearing as to what we might expect from the Obama administration here in America, plus that might just open the door to further discussions of current events and political situations all over Africa, a topic that most posters seem reluctant to discuss.

No less than the head of the Carnegie foundation (an Armenian immigrant) has said that one of our biggest problems has been the failure to American media to accurately report world events.

Fine, I can play that game, too. Why have the majority of them been thrown out?

You tell me.

I didn't want to say mosque leaders because that's not necessarily who I'm talking about. You have all kinds of mosque leaders who aren't in the spiritual/political positions of power in Islamic states. My use of the words "church leaders" was meant to refer to their religious leaders at a political level - thus the ones setting Islamic law policy for the various Islamic states.

Thanks for clarifying.

What do you think of those guys?? (particularly the wahibists)

I swear 90% of the people in this thread would have realized that is what I meant.

Well I didn't follow when you inserted the word "church."

I'm not all that into statistics anyway.

And - where in the world are you coming from when claiming my favorite non sequitur is islam to religion to Christian churches. I don't even participate in most of these discussions and didn't do that here. You took my comments and ran with them in a direction that most people wouldn't. I guess that serves your agenda of painting people into the corners you want them, but you can leave me out of that crap.

I never have been a herd animal.

Most people paint themselves into some corner.

I'll carry on conversations with you about things I care about and that I think you are providing a too one-sided and intellectually dishonest view of, but there's no way I'm going waste my time with this bull. Islam vs. Christianity is something that I can barely get interested in , and you and your ridiculous assertions make it all the easier to ignore. That is obviously when the politics forum passes from enjoyable banter to swatting at an annoying gnat.

Which of my assertions do you consider to have been ridiculous??

It appears you have taken offense and progressed (Or should I say digressed?) from discussion of topic to personal attack.

Is that intellectually honest enough for you??

 

[gsvol]

.

 

[VolsDeep]

The part in bold is the only part I have a problem with. What does African heritage and Islam have to do with each other? Very few Africans were Muslims until say around 100 years ago.

Also, I may be wrong, but wasn't Roy the one with a really bad drinking problem? Or one that didn't get along with his parents or something? My point is that the reason Obama was most proud of him was because he finally came into his own and straightened out his life, not because he came back to his African heritage or became a Muslim - both of those are components to the larger character shift that Roy had. (I haven't read the book in awhile, but I think it was something like that).

 

[VolsDeep]

yes it would. I guess my trouble with the African heritage/ Islam thing is that Africa (as a continent) had very diverse cultures as a whole at one time. Even during the time when there was strong European influence there the culture was not lost. If you look at those countries with strong Islamic influence today (particularly in the northeastern countries), the Muslim influence seems to have stifled much of that diversity. Though many of the nations were poor in the economic sense, they were rich in culture, which has been lost for the most part. It just seems to me that Islam has corrupted what i considered to be a very interesting part of the world and turned it into something very ugly IMO. I guess I just don't understand why African heritage and Islam seem to go hand in hand there. In particular I don't understand why so many African Americans would turn to Islam, considering their contribution to slavery and history of enslaving those of African heritage through history.

I was always a civilization buff, particularly ancient civilization. Africa and South America were always of great interest to me along with parts of Asia.

I agree with a lot of this but colonialism and European imperialism were also greatly at odds with African culture and tradition... Only 2 countries in Africa were never colonized by Europe: Liberia and Ethiopia. Liberia because it was basically colonized by the U.S., and Ethiopia because it was believed to be a "Christian" nation. Although the battles between King Theodore (I'm pretty sure it was Theodore) and the British are pretty interesting.

 

[VolsDeep]

I must say that I have enjoyed reading most of these posts, but like TennTradition alluded to earlier, I don't have much patience or desire to get bogged down in a "debate" where no genuine progress is conceivable.... That being said, I am a 24 year old that worked on the Obama campaign from June - November as a Field Organizer in Richmond, VA. I am currently at Harvard Divinity School getting a degree in Religion and Politics, and I love talking about both in the right atmosphere. Is there any way to try and improve the politics thread so that discussion rather than debate is emphasized? Let me know...

 

[gsvol]

I must say that I have enjoyed reading most of these posts, but like TennTradition alluded to earlier, I don't have much patience or desire to get bogged down in a "debate" where no genuine progress is conceivable.... That being said, I am a 24 year old that worked on the Obama campaign from June - November as a Field Organizer in Richmond, VA. I am currently at Harvard Divinity School getting a degree in Religion and Politics, and I love talking about both in the right atmosphere. Is there any way to try and improve the politics thread so that discussion rather than debate is emphasized? Let me know...

I'll ask you then, what did you think of Obama's support for Odinga of Kenya and what do you think of Odinga's political position???

 

[KB5252]

I agree with a lot of this but colonialism and European imperialism were also greatly at odds with African culture and tradition... Only 2 countries in Africa were never colonized by Europe: Liberia and Ethiopia. Liberia because it was basically colonized by the U.S., and Ethiopia because it was believed to be a "Christian" nation. Although the battles between King Theodore (I'm pretty sure it was Theodore) and the British are pretty interesting.

There was also a group of practicing Jews of African heritage who had taken refuge in the mountains there long ago. I believe a good number of them have relocated to Israel now. I believe they were called Fallasha's (could be wrong about the name).

No doubt that European influence had a negative effect. There were battles and many were treated very harshly by the Europeans no doubt. In the end it did not have the effect that the Muslims of the past 150 years have had, in particular the last 50 years.

 

[KB5252]

I must say that I have enjoyed reading most of these posts, but like TennTradition alluded to earlier, I don't have much patience or desire to get bogged down in a "debate" where no genuine progress is conceivable.... That being said, I am a 24 year old that worked on the Obama campaign from June - November as a Field Organizer in Richmond, VA. I am currently at Harvard Divinity School getting a degree in Religion and Politics, and I love talking about both in the right atmosphere. Is there any way to try and improve the politics thread so that discussion rather than debate is emphasized? Let me know...

I understand what you are talking about. The problem is that when people are passionate about a subject or issue very often it turns into a debate. I rather enjoy the discussions and debates, more than a couple of times my views have been modified because of a well thought out post or answer to a question i have posed. This is as it should be IMO.

 

[VolsDeep]

There was also a group of practicing Jews of African heritage who had taken refuge in the mountains there long ago. I believe a good number of them have relocated to Israel now. I believe they were called Fallasha's (could be wrong about the name).

No doubt that European influence had a negative effect. There were battles and many were treated very harshly by the Europeans no doubt. In the end it did not have the effect that the Muslims of the past 150 years have had, in particular the last 50 years.

I guess maybe one way to view it is that European imperialism is/was a major factor in regards to poor governance in Africa, while Islam and the Arab world are a major factor in regards to culture and tradition? I don't know that much about when Islam came into Africa, etc but maybe this is a way to distinguish the major roles that each side had in shaping Africa...

 

[KB5252]

I guess maybe one way to view it is that European imperialism is/was a major factor in regards to poor governance in Africa, while Islam and the Arab world are a major factor in regards to culture and tradition? I don't know that much about when Islam came into Africa, etc but maybe this is a way to distinguish the major roles that each side had in shaping Africa...

There has been a fairly large Muslim following on the extreme eastern and northeastern parts of Africa for quite some time, probably somewhere on the order of 400 to 500 years, maybe a bit longer in some areas. The problem is that until fairly recently they have lived in some semblance of peace with their neighbors. In fact the Arab and Muslim world was one of the most advanced at one time due to their peaceful interaction and exchange of ideas with other cultures. There was a flare up like we see today before the Crusades.

 

[VolsDeep]

I'll ask you then, what did you think of Obama's support for Odinga of Kenya and what do you think of Odinga's political position???

I'll be honest, I don't know that much about the situation.

But this much I do know, Obama is first and foremost a politician. When a politician, it often times comes at the expense of your own individual personality and beliefs....Thus, whenever I read stuff about Obama's associations, the fact that he didn't shake soldiers hands when he went to Iraq, etc. I have to take it with a grain of salt because he is obviously smart enough to know what would be detrimental to his political career and what wouldn't....

To try and discern a politician's intentions based on their actions is futile in my opinion, because at the end of the day they are nothing more than snake oiled salesmen...

My question to you, though, is do you pose these questions and do you actively participate in VolNation in order to become better enlightened or to try and be of service to those that are less informed? In other words, do you come here to be helped or to help others? If you feel like your contribution is important and valuable to this board, then run for office.... There are many elections in which to get involved, and all of which are much more fruitful than continously posting your opinions on a message board.... Just a thought.

 

[gsvol]

There was also a group of practicing Jews of African heritage who had taken refuge in the mountains there long ago. I believe a good number of them have relocated to Israel now. I believe they were called Fallasha's (could be wrong about the name).

No doubt that European influence had a negative effect. There were battles and many were treated very harshly by the Europeans no doubt. In the end it did not have the effect that the Muslims of the past 150 years have had, in particular the last 50 years.

There is another tribe much farther south in east Africa that also considers itself one of the lost tribes of Israel.

Black Africa can thank the colonial powers (primarily Britain and France) for ending the wholesale taking of black slaves from Africa by muslim Arabs, even though the practice still goes on today and there are perhaps a million blacks held in slavery in muslim countries as we speak.

A Brief History of Sub-Saharan De-Colonization

I'll be honest, I don't know that much about the situation.

But this much I do know, Obama is first and foremost a politician. When a politician, it often times comes at the expense of your own individual personality and beliefs....Thus, whenever I read stuff about Obama's associations, the fact that he didn't shake soldiers hands when he went to Iraq, etc. I have to take it with a grain of salt because he is obviously smart enough to know what would be detrimental to his political career and what wouldn't....

To try and discern a politician's intentions based on their actions is futile in my opinion, because at the end of the day they are nothing more than snake oiled salesmen...

My question to you, though, is do you pose these questions and do you actively participate in VolNation in order to become better enlightened or to try and be of service to those that are less informed? In other words, do you come here to be helped or to help others? If you feel like your contribution is important and valuable to this board, then run for office.... There are many elections in which to get involved, and all of which are much more fruitful than continously posting your opinions on a message board.... Just a thought.

To make a long story short, Obama supported the campaign of Odinga (who claims to be a cousin of Obama) for the office of president of Kenya.

Odinga's family has a long history of marxist activism and attempted coups in Kenya and Odinga is so committed to that kind of politics he named a son Fidel (in honor or Fidel Castro) and a daughter Winnie (in honor of the former wife of nelson Mandela). He was educated in communist East Germany.

Obama supported by making appearances at Odinga rallies, monetary (almost $1 million) (the second highest Odinga contributor was the son of Moamar Khadaffi with about $3/4 million) and the loan of a (democrat) campaign adviser, plus almost daily confers with Odinga by phone.

There are very credible claims that Odinga made a pact with muslim leaders to enact sharia law if elected.

At any rate when Odinga lost as expected, he made claims of election fraud and the muslim population rioted, killing hundreds and displacing hundreds of thousands and continued to riot until Odinga was offered the position of prime minister in the Kenyan government.

Do me (and perhaps yourself) a favor and read this book.

It is accessible in the link in it's entirety and you can read it overnight.

A short article on current events you won't be reading about in American media.

To be better enlightened and to enlighten others.

I already had a major in the Russian language when I first attended UT and intended to get another major in political science but only took three hours of polisci, I was so repulsed by some of the things I learned (not necessarily in the classroom) that I decided to study other things.

I had a great teacher, he was the only professor who would come out and have a beer in the most politically active tavern in Knoxville in those days.

Have you heard of or read Tragedy and Hope by Quigley?

 

[gsvol]

There has been a fairly large Muslim following on the extreme eastern and northeastern parts of Africa for quite some time, probably somewhere on the order of 400 to 500 years, maybe a bit longer in some areas. The problem is that until fairly recently they have lived in some semblance of peace with their neighbors. In fact the Arab and Muslim world was one of the most advanced at one time due to their peaceful interaction and exchange of ideas with other cultures. There was a flare up like we see today before the Crusades.

Muslim myth, islamic propaganda.

In fact in what centuries did islam live in peace with it's neighbors???

There was only peace when islam had achieved complete dominance and then there was always conflict in the fringes of islamic territories, in every century since the 7th, up to including today.

Islam, Arabs and Africa.

Right, what I'm saying is that I don't think there is any mention in Matthew,Mark, or Luke that Jesus himself ever claimed to be Son of God....Thus, the references to son of god by the mockers or the Roman Centurian COULD HAVE been put in later (not saying they were, but could have).

Being skeptical isn't always a bad thing by any means but anyone who accepts Jesus as their personal Savior must accept that He is the Son of God and is the only one who may sustain your soul for all eternity.

Also, we actually don't know why Jesus was crucified. Keep in mind that he was persecuted by the Roman authorities, not the Jewish leaders... The Romans only cared about political issues, and usually didn't get involved with religious or local problems (the reason why John the Baptist was beheaded by Herod).... Thus, the reason for his death by Roman hands had to be on political grounds, not religious ones....

He was crucified by the Romans at the behest of the Jewish leaders.

And sorry but no, I am not familiar with the book or Lao Tse.

Tao can be translated 'the way', and early Taoists said that their teachings came from immortals, the Christian monk who wrote "Christ the eternal tao" was saying that when Jesus said; "I am the way, the truth and the light," he was saying He was the physical embodiment of Tao.

Are you familair with the work; "He walked the Americas?", from the verse; "I have other sheep in other folds that I must visit." (or something close to that.)

If you are planning on attending divinity school, the study of Lao Tse should be mandatory.

You might also consider the "The Art of Peace."

Not according to the gospels

BibleGateway.com - PassageLookup: Matthew 27:11-26;

BibleGateway.com - PassageLookup: Mark 15:1-15;

BibleGateway.com - PassageLookup: Luke 23: 1-23;

BibleGateway.com - PassageLookup: John 18:28-40;

Great and timely work, i didn't know you were so well versed.

I loved Quin in "Barabas", he nailed that part.

 

[KentheOrange]

Exactly, this is why I have no problem with any president trying to keep certain aspects of their life from being public knowledge.

Even if it directly affects his qualifications to be POTUS?

 

[KingNick865]

Even if it directly affects his qualifications to be POTUS?

And, how is this so?

 

[gsvol]

And, how is this so?

The rule of law.