Hillary's running in 08

#26
#26
JonWard said:
I don't know how long ago you changed it, but I LOL about your avatar...nice.
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Thanks. It was my intent all along but when Freak changed something on the board, the "Orange Square" that I was using from the board went away, so I replaced it with Phil. I changed it to this one last night.
 
#29
#29
Who would actually vote for her, though? Sure, she has money, but I can't take the BS that hits me in the face everytime she opens her mouth. Does anyone actually see her being able to successfully fight the war on terror all the while reforming healthcare and keeping Bill out of the Oral Office?
 
#30
#30
She is a polarized candidate. You either like or hate her just for who she and not where she stands on the issues. Obama is a very articulated guy who I think will get further then Hillary if his campaign gets him out there so people get to know him. Should be interesting.

Personally would have to hear Obama's take on things and decide on how I would vote. Hillary... Forget about it.
 
#31
#31
Even though I think it's not likely, I would just like Hillary to win so I can watch some heads explode. I've dealt with W for years, it's time for you all to suffer. :rock:
 
#34
#34
OWB said:
And how is that different from now?
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Only different in the areas of suffering.

Honestly, neither party has a candidate (or could have a candidate) that truly satisfy all.

I clearly think the state of our country is such that neither party can do much positive or negative. I believe the W hate is completely overblown and the estimates of the damage he's done are likewise. That said, the same would be true with HC. I wouldn't like it but in reality it won't be that bad.
 
#35
#35
OWB said:
And how is that different from now?
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You think you have it bad now? Why...this is curious to me when I read and hear people say that. Is it b/c you are paying .50 per gallon more? That's maybe $500 over the course of a year or $41 per month. Surely that is not your reason? Is it all the attacks on American soil by terrorists? Oops...there haven't been any since 9/11/2001 and something must be working since we haven't seen any "24" type scenarios with bus and subway bombings. Is it b/c our economy is weak and there are no jobs to be had? Nope...can't be...the economy is strong and housing interest rates remain low despite anlaysts predictions.
 
#36
#36
J.Quest said:
You think you have it bad now? Why...this is curious to me when I read and hear people say that. Is it b/c you are paying .50 per gallon more? That's maybe $500 over the course of a year or $41 per month. Surely that is not your reason? Is it all the attacks on American soil by terrorists? Oops...there haven't been any since 9/11/2001 and something must be working since we haven't seen any "24" type scenarios with bus and subway bombings. Is it b/c our economy is weak and there are no jobs to be had? Nope...can't be...the economy is strong and housing interest rates remain low despite anlaysts predictions.
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Fox News? Is that you?
 
#37
#37
im one of those people who still believe in this president. he is taking all the knocks now and unfortunatly he wont be appreciated for another 20yrs. as for hillary, who knows? i do believe she has what it takes to be president. i disagree with her on most issues but in 42yrs., ive not seen one candidate that i agree 100% with. i would rather see hillary as president than al gore. gore has gone past the left and lives in his " own private idaho"..............
 
#39
#39
ok, so you guys obviously don't feel the way I do...please explain why you think you have it so bad or why the country has it so bad now. Maybe a small list of items that you think would change under the governing rule of the Dems. You've really done little to explain your side so far. And "Bush is an idiot" really isn't an argument.
 
#40
#40
J.Quest said:
ok, so you guys obviously don't feel the way I do...please explain why you think you have it so bad or why the country has it so bad now. Maybe a small list of items that you think would change under the governing rule of the Dems. You've really done little to explain your side so far. And "Bush is an idiot" really isn't an argument.
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First of all you are right "Bush is an idiot" is not an arguement - just a factual statement :shaking2:

The things that I would like to see happen are:

1. No more governing morality. freedom means we have the right to choose. Stop shoving your beliefs down my throat.

2. While $41 a month doesn't matter much to you, there are plenty out there that could use it.

3. Education, education, education. The No Child Left Behind Act is one of the worst things to happen to the public education system in a long time. We are teaching for funding, not for the betterment of our society.

4. DO SOMETHING ABOUT CHINA!!! grow some balls and stop those guys from dumping their products on our shores. It is killing american business.

I am not saying that these things will happen under the Dem rule; however this current group took advantage of this country in the wake of 9/11 and have used patriotism to exploit the positions they were elected to.
 
#41
#41
Everyone was behind Bush post 9/11 and wanted revenge. At the onset of Iraq, everyone was behind Bush and liked the tough talk. Everyone was united and wanted to take the fight to the enemies. What has changed? I think everyone sees us bogged down and thinks that if we get out of Iraq, we'll just go on living as we are. Our security and place in the world is priority #1.

The things that I would like to see happen are:

1. No more governing morality. freedom means we have the right to choose. Stop shoving your beliefs down my throat.

I have no idea what you're talking about here...embrionic research, abortion, gay marriage...? All these are topics that will come up no matter who is in office...they have to. Like it or not, this nation was founded on moral principles.

2. While $41 a month doesn't matter much to you, there are plenty out there that could use it.

So, why take a stance on inflating gas prices? Why not talk about $4 / gal milk or the surge in housing prices? Sure, you are paying more, but it has been shown that fuel has not followed the inflation trend for decades. A correction was due and just happened to hit everyone after Katrina and the oil companies could blame it on her.

3. Education, education, education. The No Child Left Behind Act is one of the worst things to happen to the public education system in a long time. We are teaching for funding, not for the betterment of our society.

No arguments here. I think public schools and government funded schools in general are deplorable...regardless of who is in office. Although there are exceptions to every rule.

4. DO SOMETHING ABOUT CHINA!!! grow some balls and stop those guys from dumping their products on our shores. It is killing american business.

You're looking at the wrong party to stop that. China, although not a superpower is a junk product and textiles monster. If you completely understood the world economy and the US' place in it you'd see this can be a good thing. For instance, why make Levis in the US and attempt to sell them for a higher price when no one will buy them b/c XXX jeans can be purchased for less (if $41 for gas hurts, you sure won't pay more for jeans)? At the same time, China and underdeveloped countries might purchase heavy machinery for farming, etc from the US b/c they don't have the know-how or setup to do it themselves. All it requires on our part to continue to dominate is more and better education for our workforce.

I am not saying that these things will happen under the Dem rule; however this current group took advantage of this country in the wake of 9/11 and have used patriotism to exploit the positions they were elected to.

How so?
 
#42
#42
J.Quest said:
Everyone was behind Bush post 9/11 and wanted revenge. At the onset of Iraq, everyone was behind Bush and liked the tough talk. Everyone was united and wanted to take the fight to the enemies. What has changed? I think everyone sees us bogged down and thinks that if we get out of Iraq, we'll just go on living as we are. Our security and place in the world is priority #1.

The things that I would like to see happen are:

1. No more governing morality. freedom means we have the right to choose. Stop shoving your beliefs down my throat.

I have no idea what you're talking about here...embrionic research, abortion, gay marriage...? All these are topics that will come up no matter who is in office...they have to. Like it or not, this nation was founded on moral principles.

2. While $41 a month doesn't matter much to you, there are plenty out there that could use it.

So, why take a stance on inflating gas prices? Why not talk about $4 / gal milk or the surge in housing prices? Sure, you are paying more, but it has been shown that fuel has not followed the inflation trend for decades. A correction was due and just happened to hit everyone after Katrina and the oil companies could blame it on her.

3. Education, education, education. The No Child Left Behind Act is one of the worst things to happen to the public education system in a long time. We are teaching for funding, not for the betterment of our society.

No arguments here. I think public schools and government funded schools in general are deplorable...regardless of who is in office. Although there are exceptions to every rule.

4. DO SOMETHING ABOUT CHINA!!! grow some balls and stop those guys from dumping their products on our shores. It is killing american business.

You're looking at the wrong party to stop that. China, although not a superpower is a junk product and textiles monster. If you completely understood the world economy and the US' place in it you'd see this can be a good thing. For instance, why make Levis in the US and attempt to sell them for a higher price when no one will buy them b/c XXX jeans can be purchased for less (if $41 for gas hurts, you sure won't pay more for jeans)? At the same time, China and underdeveloped countries might purchase heavy machinery for farming, etc from the US b/c they don't have the know-how or setup to do it themselves. All it requires on our part to continue to dominate is more and better education for our workforce.

I am not saying that these things will happen under the Dem rule; however this current group took advantage of this country in the wake of 9/11 and have used patriotism to exploit the positions they were elected to.

How so?
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I am not talking just about Iraq.

1. I agree that this country was founded on moral principles - however your morals are not my morals.

2. That $41 a month translates into $37 billion in profits for 1 quarter of business; do you not see that something is wrong there? While we pay more for that gas people at the big oil companies are making off with a TON of money; they get HUGE tax breaks that could help fund education or useful programs. I have no problem with paying more for gas as the rest of the world does, I take issue with your statement of $41/month being a non issue for everyone.

3. Glad that we agree here - but what about the families that can't afford home schooling or private schools?

4. As a matter of fact I do understand the worlds economy and our place in it. However, china is being written a blank check and is killing US based business. While I agree that competition is better for the consumer, dumping crappy products on our shores is not good for any of us. That $41 a month we talked about before would pay the annual salary of a chinese employee.

And to your first statement...I am not so sure that "everyone" wanted to be aggressive with Iraq...personally I was looking forward to "staying the course" in Afgahistan (sp?). The general feeling - at least from my point of view - was that Bush used the Taliban to go after Sadam - am I glad he is gone - yes; do I think it needed to be done by full scale invasion...NO.

My gut feeling is that no matter what party they are from, Rep, Dem, Indy or whatever - the mess that will be laid at the feet of the next administration will overshadow any good that they might be able to accomplish during their term. As of the moment no party shows a clear and determined leadership ability or a plan to "right the ship".
 
#43
#43
I am not talking just about Iraq.

1. I agree that this country was founded on moral principles - however your morals are not my morals.

A serial killer or islamic jihadist could argue the same point. If you're not sure you like the rules here, try China or Iran. I'm sure their governments are open to such an argument.

2. That $41 a month translates into $37 billion in profits for 1 quarter of business; do you not see that something is wrong there? While we pay more for that gas people at the big oil companies are making off with a TON of money; they get HUGE tax breaks that could help fund education or useful programs. I have no problem with paying more for gas as the rest of the world does, I take issue with your statement of $41/month being a non issue for everyone.

Profits do not equal profit margin. And what of the tax breaks? Again, if your the one making the money (see previous hot dog stand example), then wouldn't you want to shelter your money? The $41 is an issue only because it happened suddenly. Had this happened gradually, there would be little debate on this. There again, why is this W's fault? Where is the proof that W caused the fuel inflation? W is all for drilling domestically, however, the tree huggers and Al Gore camp have other ideas...what does the inability to drill domestically do to your price at the pump?

3. Glad that we agree here - but what about the families that can't afford home schooling or private schools?

How about a tax breaks or another creative alternative to allow them to send their kids to the school of their choosing? This won't work b/c people in general cannot manage their own money. And these same people feel like they know what's best for the country.

4. As a matter of fact I do understand the worlds economy and our place in it. However, china is being written a blank check and is killing US based business. While I agree that competition is better for the consumer, dumping crappy products on our shores is not good for any of us. That $41 a month we talked about before would pay the annual salary of a chinese employee.

Bringing these low-tech jobs back to the US won't help anything because unions want to be paid $30 / hour to make Dora toys. As long as there is a free market there will be foreign competition. This is not something specific to the US.

And to your first statement...I am not so sure that "everyone" wanted to be aggressive with Iraq...personally I was looking forward to "staying the course" in Afgahistan (sp?). The general feeling - at least from my point of view - was that Bush used the Taliban to go after Sadam - am I glad he is gone - yes; do I think it needed to be done by full scale invasion...NO.

The polls said otherwise. This country was firmly behind their leader and now that we are tired of playing in the sandbox, we'd like to just pick up our toys and go home and leave W hanging out on front street for the world to mock. War doesn't work that way and this Pres understands at least that much. Put up or shut up.

My gut feeling is that no matter what party they are from, Rep, Dem, Indy or whatever - the mess that will be laid at the feet of the next administration will overshadow any good that they might be able to accomplish during their term. As of the moment no party shows a clear and determined leadership ability or a plan to "right the ship".

Just remember this mess was not caused by this administration. The snowball started rolling with the murder of 3K of our people on our soil.
 
#44
#44
J.Quest said:
I am not talking just about Iraq.

1. I agree that this country was founded on moral principles - however your morals are not my morals.

A serial killer or islamic jihadist could argue the same point. If you're not sure you like the rules here, try China or Iran. I'm sure their governments are open to such an argument.

2. That $41 a month translates into $37 billion in profits for 1 quarter of business; do you not see that something is wrong there? While we pay more for that gas people at the big oil companies are making off with a TON of money; they get HUGE tax breaks that could help fund education or useful programs. I have no problem with paying more for gas as the rest of the world does, I take issue with your statement of $41/month being a non issue for everyone.

Profits do not equal profit margin. And what of the tax breaks? Again, if your the one making the money (see previous hot dog stand example), then wouldn't you want to shelter your money? The $41 is an issue only because it happened suddenly. Had this happened gradually, there would be little debate on this. There again, why is this W's fault? Where is the proof that W caused the fuel inflation? W is all for drilling domestically, however, the tree huggers and Al Gore camp have other ideas...what does the inability to drill domestically do to your price at the pump?

3. Glad that we agree here - but what about the families that can't afford home schooling or private schools?

How about a tax breaks or another creative alternative to allow them to send their kids to the school of their choosing? This won't work b/c people in general cannot manage their own money. And these same people feel like they know what's best for the country.

4. As a matter of fact I do understand the worlds economy and our place in it. However, china is being written a blank check and is killing US based business. While I agree that competition is better for the consumer, dumping crappy products on our shores is not good for any of us. That $41 a month we talked about before would pay the annual salary of a chinese employee.

Bringing these low-tech jobs back to the US won't help anything because unions want to be paid $30 / hour to make Dora toys. As long as there is a free market there will be foreign competition. This is not something specific to the US.

And to your first statement...I am not so sure that "everyone" wanted to be aggressive with Iraq...personally I was looking forward to "staying the course" in Afgahistan (sp?). The general feeling - at least from my point of view - was that Bush used the Taliban to go after Sadam - am I glad he is gone - yes; do I think it needed to be done by full scale invasion...NO.

The polls said otherwise. This country was firmly behind their leader and now that we are tired of playing in the sandbox, we'd like to just pick up our toys and go home and leave W hanging out on front street for the world to mock. War doesn't work that way and this Pres understands at least that much. Put up or shut up.

My gut feeling is that no matter what party they are from, Rep, Dem, Indy or whatever - the mess that will be laid at the feet of the next administration will overshadow any good that they might be able to accomplish during their term. As of the moment no party shows a clear and determined leadership ability or a plan to "right the ship".

Just remember this mess was not caused by this administration. The snowball started rolling with the murder of 3K of our people on our soil.
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point ...counterpoint....all I have to say is...

way to tow that party line!!!!!
 
#45
#45
:)...realize how great this country really is and be proud! Don't allow pessamists and ignorant critics determine your path and influence your life. We are free and the object of world envy because we fought hard to get here. Other countries will go thru their own industrial revolutions and depressions in order to be like us. European socialism and government control is not the way of the future. Ask our former Soviet pals. Ask Canadians about their healthcare.
 
#46
#46
I realize and am proud of it but we are not the top of the heap anymore- we have been joined by several countries. In this global climate we have to do what is right by others and the continual neglect for the Global Community that hsi administratin has brought is not healthy for anybody.

Just becasue I don't blinldy follow W doesn't me I am Un-American or not proud of my country. But when I go overseas and have to be secretive about my nationality due to my governments actions then something is wrong. I don't particularly agree with the Dems or the Repubs - if I had to describe myself I would say that I am purple - I feel that government has its place in things, just not EVERYTHING.
 
#47
#47
VOLracerx said:
But when I go overseas and have to be secretive about my nationality due to my governments actions then something is wrong.
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Maybe what is wrong is not your government's actions, but rather the views of people that you feel you have to "hide" from.
 
#49
#49
allvol123 said:
Maybe what is wrong is not your government's actions, but rather the views of people that you feel you have to "hide" from.
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Exactly. Brazil, China, Iran, Russia...all brainwash their public. They all sensor beyond belief. Folks there don't have full access to the internet and news like you and I do. And depsite popular beief, this country is still on top. Why else would there be multi-polar alliances between the Chinese and Russians? Why would Chavez be trying to get in bed with Iran and form an anti US alliance? Use your brain...think, think, think! You are thinking exactly like our enemies want you to think (it's all the US' fault, they murder muslims and tell lies, they back the Zionist regime). We are weaker when this strategy works. Creating doubt is psychological warefare at it's best. Think strong, be strong! Never turn your back on an enemy.
 
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