Holly is not the problem.

#101
#101
xhunt3r said:
I don't think Holly was suppose to be the long term solution at the time. It was just easier to transition to Holly before looking elsewhere for a coach. The team played just well enough (regular and tournament SEC titles/elite 8s) that there didn't seem like it was a pressing need to move on from Holly yet. Also not having done more (Final Four/Championship Game) was kind of forgiven due to the numerous injuries over the last few years. All along they looked a bit under coached, but they won just enough. This year it is clear the team is trending in the wrong direction and a change is needed if Tennessee actually cares about woman's basketball. The thing is the AD may not care enough to make a change...
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I think you said it about as accurate as can be.

The first & second sentences is where the crux of the issue is to me. Is running a multi-million $$$ organization against cutthroat competitors done that way? Should the "leader of the pack" hire a "temp" to take over? Should they do it because it's "easy", or maybe I should say "emotionally easy" for the legend, the staff, and the fans?

Seems to me that when you are (were?) in the #1 slot of all coaching vacancies (and $$$), then you would command the greatest leverage possible to get the absolute best candidate available. I wasn't "against" CHW for the job, but I had serious reservations as to whether she was truly "the best in the nation available". Really, the best is actually already in house with zero HC experience? Are we MTSU here?

I don't know if we had anyone (or group) with enough power / authority to have gone another direction honestly. When you are planning for a bronze statue of a legend, then a newly hired AD and a "Board" don't seem to carry the same weight. The "Pat has earned the right" mantra dominated everything at the time. Especially with the extra issue of her medical condition.

It's easy to see why the fanbase, staff, and ADept didn't balk at the "easy" transition. But, when you remove the "emotional" and "comfortable" elements, this looked like a horrible long term plan from the beginning. Doesn't appear to be working ... but, stranger things have happened I guess.

And the last sentence @ the AD "not caring". Yep, it's a football school for sure. But, if it continues spiraling down, then maybe that forces / allows him to act.

Just my thoughts.
 
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#104
#104
Trixietrouble said:
I think his/her point was that she looked like a totally different player when on an All-Star team vs. the 2016 Lady Vols.
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I would think that her desire to play in the WNBA (which I assume she does) would motivate her to play her best. There is some opportunity to improve her footwork and post moves and that's on the coaching, but she should be demanding of herself if she wants to play at the next level...particularly her ability to use her height/length and learn how to go after entry passes.

Turner, Stewart and Izzy last year are perfect examples of what kinds of hands a post player should have. Throw the ball in their vicinity where they are in position to go after it. That's something Russell lacks and needs to perfect if she wants to be anything more than a serviceable player.
 
#105
#105
armchair said:
You don't think we'd play better with, say, Muffet McGraw as coach? We'd be at least 50 percent better. She'd wring out all the DUMB out of our team--and there is helluva lot of it, from coaches and players--and inject a lot of fundamentals and smarts. Or how about Geno: he'd be in every player's face EVERY DAY until they stopped playing like pansies.
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You hit the nail on the head. Either Muffet or Geno would have this team humming. Ever hear one of the UCon players interviewed & asked about their practices? Every one of them says they are incredible harder than any of their games. He puts 7 guys (men) against 5 or 5 against 3. No wonder their games look so easy for them. There was a coach who visited their practice with his team to observe & couldn't get over the fact that the first 1/2 hour was spent on absolute fundamentals - dribbling & passing. No wonder they almost always lead the country in assists.

From the way the LV's are playing they could use a little of that. If we don't have a 3 pt shooter learn to pass the ball quickly to break down a zone. etc etc

I'm no coach but even a blind man can see others have solved this problem.
 
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#108
#108
1standgoal said:
Turnovers, missed shots, selfishness, and bad attitudes seem to be the underlying problems. This team is not very good, no matter who is the head coach.
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That all goes back to coaching. If you can't handle your players you can't coach. Simple...as...that
 
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#109
#109
Ok, I c all the points here, but let's face the facts. When Pat left, she left her with great players, that is why she won the first 3yrs. This is her first REAL year, and it shows her lack of knowledge and attitude for the game. It is as if she could care less, and that has filtered down to the players. Russell, at 6'6, should OWN THE PAINT, NO EXCUSES, THIS IS NOT HIGH SCHOOL ANY MORE. DeShileds is a ball hog, and has an attitude as well. Cooper, THIS IS NOT HIGH SCHOOL ANY MORE. She makes way to many mistakes and fouls to much. Nard, has an attitude problem, and it shows on the floor. Put all 4 of them on the pine and in warmups, and don't play them at all. Play some one who wants to play and wear the Lady Vol uniform with pride. Holly is the problem and it shows. If she remains any longer this Team will not make it past the first round of the SEC, and no NCAA Trip... All first under her leadership.
 
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#110
#110
BrianGoswick said:
Ok, I c all the points here, but let's face the facts. When Pat left, she left her with great players, that is why she won the first 3yrs. This is her first REAL year, and it shows her lack of knowledge and attitude for the game. It is as if she could care less, and that has filtered down to the players. Russell, at 6'6, should OWN THE PAINT, NO EXCUSES, THIS IS NOT HIGH SCHOOL ANY MORE. DeShileds is a ball hog, and has an attitude as well. Cooper, THIS IS NOT HIGH SCHOOL ANY MORE. She makes way to many mistakes and fouls to much. Nard, has an attitude problem, and it shows on the floor. Put all 4 of them on the pine and in warmups, and don't play them at all. Play some one who wants to play and wear the Lady Vol uniform with pride. Holly is the problem and it shows. If she remains any longer this Team will not make it past the first round of the SEC, and no NCAA Trip... All first under her leadership.
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The young women are just acting out because they have no leadership from their coach. Pretty simple.
 
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#111
#111
Can't agree. Look, if this team really respected and liked Holly, they'd be busting their butts for her. Even without decent coaching, the talent on this team should be several of the teams we've lost to. I just have to believe Holly has lost this team. Hey...if Hart and the fans want to stick with her, I'm fine with it. Really no skin off my nose. Just calling it as it appears to be.
 
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#112
#112
vol66 said:
Yeah, always wanting to fire the coach isn't the answer. You'd think after all we've been through in multiple sports there would be a longer leash, especially for a coach that's won around 80% in her first 3 years...just where we're at I guess.

Have a good night!

GBO!!!
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She's not winning games vs elite teams though. 5 straight losses to ND (not even competitive) 2 straight to TX (not competitive), clearly passed up by USC in conference, struggling with UTC and VT, not competitive in NCAAT losses etc. This trend started under Pat towards the end, granted there was some issues, but blowout losses to the ND's, UM's, Baylor's of the world isn't a new phenomenon for the program.
 
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#113
#113
Holly should resign immediately & Dean Lockwood should be named interim coach. Holly Warlick is not worthy of a buyout on her contract. :mf_surrender:
 
#114
#114
bowlinggreenvol said:
She's not winning games vs elite teams though. 5 straight losses to ND (not even competitive) 2 straight to TX (not competitive), clearly passed up by USC in conference, struggling with UTC and VT, not competitive in NCAAT losses etc. This trend started under Pat towards the end, granted there was some issues, but blowout losses to the ND's, UM's, Baylor's of the world isn't a new phenomenon for the program.
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I know where you are at and you know I'm for supporting the coaches and players until the end of the season which in basketball is before the tourney begins if we don't make it and after the final loss if we do.

I respect your opinion, you brought a reasonable name to the table, we discussed it, no problem.

As for the latest post, most of the teams you mentioned are all good teams and all teams lose to lesser opponents sometimes, happens every week.

Certainly I know that Pat was not going to be the coach forever, it ended to soon and Pat's last few years might not have measured up...that too happens...often.

The vast majority here, not that I think that's reflective of all LV's fans, want to ride CHW out on a rail. There's a whole thread on her post game presser and not one post about DeShields taking herself out of the game because her shoulder hurt...not injured mind you, hurt. Did Candace Parker pull that? Aside from Graves and maybe Carter, the rest are as soft as fresh marshmallows. That's the last negative comment I plan to make and one more than I should have. Kevin Punter played 40 minutes the other night, DeShields could be that if she wants to, but she has to want to.

GBO!!!
 
#115
#115
Holly is the problem. These girls could have won that game. They were showing in that first half and at the end of the second that they could play with ND. The problem is halftime adjustments other teams make them while we don't. Holly waits until the game is out of control to call a timeout. Holly is just not a good coach. For spurts in this game they looked better than UCONN. that's a problem when you have the ability to be the best but are not living up to that potential. Holly must go.
 
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#116
#116
It's not about riding somebody out on a rail - it's simply pointing out the obvious. Holly's teams are dysfunctional on their offensive sets. Contrast that with Muffet getting 7 out of 8 baskets to start the 2nd half on back cuts and pick and rolls..omg. To turn a phrase...we HAVE the jimmies and joes, we just don't have the Xs and Os.
 
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#117
#117
vol66 said:
There's a whole thread on her post game presser and not one post about DeShields taking herself out of the game because her shoulder hurt...not injured mind you, hurt. Did Candace Parker pull that? Aside from Graves and maybe Carter, the rest are as soft as fresh marshmallows. That's the last negative comment I plan to make and one more than I should have. Kevin Punter played 40 minutes the other night, DeShields could be that if she wants to, but she has to want to.

GBO!!!
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Maybe it didn't happen during a play, but it was cause for concern, and I don't blame her for wanting to take precautionary measures. I also have no doubts that Candace would've done the same thing in a January non-conference game.

The tournament brings out a different beast. You lose, you go home. Diamond played through injuries in the S16/E8 games her freshman year and didn't entertain any thoughts about not being on the court. She is a player.
 
#118
#118
Amb3096 said:
Maybe it didn't happen during a play, but it was cause for concern, and I don't blame her for wanting to take precautionary measures. I also have no doubts that Candace would've done the same thing in a January non-conference game.

The tournament brings out a different beast. You lose, you go home. Diamond played through injuries in the S16/E8 games her freshman year and didn't entertain any thoughts about not being on the court. She is a player.
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Not all games in January are equal, we were playing the #3 team in the country, and I'm not saying she's not a player, I'm not saying that about any of them, they wouldn't be here if they weren't players.

I'll stick with my comment, this isn't one of the toughest UT teams I've seen, physically or mentally. I think Middleton has some toughness about her, she doesn't play much though, sorry for forgetting about her.
 
#119
#119
I am amazed how in 4 years Vic Schaffer has turned around Mississippi State, with 2 five stars, and Jimmy Dykes has turned around the fortunes of Arkansas with one five star in two years. It is a sad state of affairs that within four years, we are having a tough time with 7 five stars. Not only 7 five stars but the third best roster in all of women's basketball. How can Holly homers continue to give Holly excuses for the state of this program? I think the lack of recruiting is just the tip of the iceberg. If Holly does not find the right combinations and some offense, we may be in danger of missing our first NCAA tournament. Though I feel somehow we will make the NCAA tournament, we will be lucky to make it past the second round. That would be ridiculous with the talent we have on this team. It would be unexcusable.
 
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#120
#120
vol66 said:
Not all games in January are equal, we were playing the #3 team in the country, and I'm not saying she's not a player, I'm not saying that about any of them, they wouldn't be here if they weren't players.

I'll stick with my comment, this isn't one of the toughest UT teams I've seen, physically or mentally. I think Middleton has some toughness about her, she doesn't play much though, sorry for forgetting about her.
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With the exception of Russell (who seems to forget that she is 6'6), I see a lack of fundamental skills - shooting, passing, dribbling, smart defense - more than lack of toughness.
 
#121
#121
Amb3096 said:
With the exception of Russell (who seems to forget that she is 6'6), I see a lack of fundamental skills - shooting, passing, dribbling, smart defense - more than lack of toughness.
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The in bound play where ND throws the ball to DD, she nonchalantly gets her pocket picked and commits a stupid foul all in the span of 6 seconds?

What fundamental break down is that?

In fact, 44 turnovers in two games...nobody on the coaching staff is making those passes though they've caught a few. :p

DD admits the vast majority are unforced. If the players are making mistakes like that because they are tired, that would be on the coaches. Whether you would prefer to call it lack of focus or lack of mental toughness...it's more to do with that than fundamentals. JMO

On the positive side, Carter had none in the last game in her 32 minutes on the floor and four assists.
 
#122
#122
vol66 said:
The in bound play where ND throws the ball to DD, she nonchalantly gets her pocket picked and commits a stupid foul all in the span of 6 seconds?

What fundamental break down is that?

In fact, 44 turnovers in two games...nobody on the coaching staff is making those passes though they've caught a few. :p

DD admits the vast majority are unforced. If the players are making mistakes like that because they are tired, that would be on the coaches. Whether you would prefer to call it lack of focus or lack of mental toughness...it's more to do with that than fundamentals. JMO

On the positive side, Carter had none in the last game in her 32 minutes on the floor and four assists.
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The play with Diamond looks like a fundamental inability to protect the ball while dribbling. She tried to get too fancy. The foul was lack of bball IQ, which I attribute less to being mentally weak and more to not playing smart.

I'm not blaming the coaching entirely. I think a lot of the players have fundamental flaws in their game. Most of them can't shoot, pass or dribble at the level we're accustomed to at Tennessee. At the same time, given this lack of skills, what has the coaching done to improve them?

A combination of ineffective or lack of coaching along with the players' inherent shortcomings has put this team where they are today.
 
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#123
#123
Amb3096 said:
The play with Diamond looks like a fundamental inability to protect the ball while dribbling. She tried to get too fancy. The foul was lack of bball IQ, which I attribute less to being mentally weak and more to not playing smart.

I'm not blaming the coaching entirely. I think a lot of the players have fundamental flaws in their game. Most of them can't shoot, pass or dribble at the level we're accustomed to at Tennessee. At the same time, given this lack of skills, what has the coaching done to improve them?

A combination of ineffective or lack of coaching along with the players' inherent shortcomings has put this team where they are today.
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Fine, toemato, tamatoe...not playing smart, or lack of mental toughness, they can't be throwing away 20+ possessions a game and expecting to beat ND on the road while the best player sits on the bench to start the third quarter already at a 9 point deficit.

We scored 11 points in the second quarter and 10 in the third.

ND went to the foul line 25 times we went 14, because they drive the ball and we don't, they weren't afraid of Russell or Graves in the least.

You can lose to anybody with stats like that, don't matter how many 5* you have.
 
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#125
#125
vol66 said:
Fine, toemato, tamatoe...not playing smart, or lack of mental toughness, they can't be throwing away 20+ possessions a game and expecting to beat ND on the road while the best player sits on the bench to start the third quarter already at a 9 point deficit.

We scored 11 points in the second quarter and 10 in the third.

ND went to the foul line 25 times we went 14, because they drive the ball and we don't, they weren't afraid of Russell or Graves in the least.

You can lose to anybody with stats like that, don't matter how many 5* you have.
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ND went to the foul line 25 times because Tennessee was intentionally fouling them to stop the clock in the last 3 minutes. Half of their trips occurred in this span. But I do agree that Russell/Graves suck at protecting the basket. Bashaara is not built to be an eraser, but Russell is. No excuse for that.

I think the turnovers have as much to do with low bball IQ/mental toughness/not smart as it does with the fact that they are just not good at passing or dribbling the ball. They pass the ball to no one at least once per game it seems.
 
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