House v. NCAA settlement fallout

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I dont see it ever going that way. I think it goes to a minor league model before they make D1 athletes employees. This type of ruling may eventually force the issue all together.

Do you think the NCAA just decided NIL and the open portal were "a good idea?" They didn't. They were forced by the courts.

All of this is forced by the courts. In the Alston v NCAA case, the "student athlete" model was said by Justice Kavenaugh in a 9-0..... unanimous..... Supreme Court decision to be essentially illegal.

The ONLY reason they didn't declare athletes employees then was because the attorneys didn't appeal that part to the court. The "they are employees" opinion was Justice Kavenaugh and the Supreme Court letting the NCAA know "it's over as soon as we see a case about employee status."

Again, a 9-0 Supreme Court decision from a court that isn't known for unanimous decisions.

 

[VOLfrombama]

Do you think the NCAA just decided NIL and the open portal were "a good idea?" They didn't. They were forced by the courts.

All of this is forced by the courts. In the Alston v NCAA case, the "student athlete" model was said by Justice Kavenaugh in a 9-0..... unanimous..... Supreme Court decision to be essentially illegal.

The ONLY reason they didn't declare athletes employees then was because the attorneys didn't appeal that part to the court. The "they are employees" opinion was Justice Kavenaugh and the Supreme Court letting the NCAA know "it's over as soon as we see a case about employee status."

Again, a 9-0 Supreme Court decision from a court that isn't known for unanimous decisions.

If every university with a football program is forced to pay all players the same benefits and pension as other employees, it will bankrupt the entire university.

Making them employees will force institutions to go in a completely different direction from a budgetary aspect, and therefore I don't believe it will ever happen. I think it will force football into a minor league model where it will be funded solely by itself and not the university. I have no idea exactly how it will work between student athletes and their participation in the league, but i do think 90% of the universities could no longer afford football if they are suddenly forced to give them employee status with salary and benefits.

 

[VFLCodyGBO]

And more sh***y football baby

So stop watching?

 

[VFLCodyGBO]

And the lawyers, and the union.

Those already exist, it’s how we got here to begin with…

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

If every university with a football program is forced to pay all players the same benefits and pension as other employees, it will bankrupt the entire university.

Making them employees will force institutions to go in a completely different direction from a budgetary aspect, and therefore I don't believe it will ever happen. I think it will force football into a minor league model where it will be funded solely by itself and not the university. I have no idea exactly how it will work between student athletes and their participation in the league, but i do think 90% of the universities could no longer afford football if they are suddenly forced to give them employee status with salary and benefits.

I'm not arguing it's a good thing. The major schools need to establish a pro league, get it away from the schools, and basically become an NFL Lite League.

The other schools need to completely burn down the NCAA and go back to not trying to milk all the revenue they can out of college athletics. Most make no money so this should be easy but the NCAA is doomed.

The big schools, like UT, started all this by insisting years ago that they make their own TV/media deals instead of letting the NCAA keep it at low level. Yeah, we'd see A LOT less college sports on TV but the whole dang thing wouldn't have been turned into a multi-billion dollar sports industry without compensating the players at the market rate for their skills.

The big schools did this. The NCAA lost control of it because the schools continuously sue so NIL isn't controlled and transfers are wide open. The players? They just grew up and there were the offers for their talent. Should they refuse the money?

 

[VOLfrombama]

I'm not arguing it's a good thing. The major schools need to establish a pro league, get it away from the schools, and basically become an NFL Lite League.

The other schools need to completely burn down the NCAA and go back to not trying to milk all the revenue they can out of college athletics. Most make no money so this should be easy but the NCAA is doomed.

The big schools, like UT, started all this by insisting years ago that they make their own TV/media deals instead of letting the NCAA keep it at low level. Yeah, we'd see A LOT less college sports on TV but the whole dang thing wouldn't have been turned into a multi-billion dollar sports industry without compensating the players at the market rate for their skills.

The big schools did this. The NCAA lost control of it because the schools continuously sue so NIL isn't controlled and transfers are wide open. The players? They just grew up and there were the offers for their talent. Should they refuse the money?

Absolutely not. I just dont think anyone can afford it and thus this new direction /employee system will never work

 

[Delmar]

But revenue sharing is not necessarily employment. Stakeholders get revenue sharing from corporations but they dont have to be employees in order to get it

I don’t know about anybody else but I’m dang sure not “sharing” revenue with anybody if there isn’t some sort of long term agreement involved. Not going to give anybody a share if they can take it and bail after one year. A lot of guys aren’t going to produce in their first year. Don’t want to pay to develop them and then have them actually produce from some other team.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

If players are state employees, won't they be subject to Tennessee state rules prohibiting public employee unionization?

As state employees, won't the school be required to cover players with benefits, including health care, workers comp and disability insurance?

What if a player has a catastrophic injury? Or brain trauma? Who pays?

I’m okay if the university has to pay a football player who has a traumatic brain injury.

You all need to accept that it isn’t going back to what it was. The Supreme Court has made sure of that. So at this point, you work with what you can to put some parameters around it. Anything that limits unlimited free agency at this point is a win. If in the rare occasion we have an Inky Johnson situation and the university has to pay out the dollar equivalent of a couple of Out of State tuitions every year to that guy, what do you care?

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

I don’t know about anybody else but I’m dang sure not “sharing” revenue with anybody if there isn’t some sort of long term agreement involved. Not going to give anybody a share if they can take it and bail after one year. A lot of guys aren’t going to produce in their first year. Don’t want to pay to develop them and then have them actually produce from some other team.

I mean, most every business in the country shares revenue without long term agreements. But the number on goal by the schools should be to get a handle on the transfers. Whether that’s a one time transfer rule or a sit out a year if you transfer rule, that’s what needs to happen.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Absolutely not. I just dont think anyone can afford it and thus this new direction /employee system will never work

It will work but only as a pro league at the SEC and B1G level. Schools like UT NEED to get away from the school before they destroy college athletics for MANY more athletes that would like the old "I play football for my school in exchange for an education" method.

If the big schools insist on making college athletics a "big bids for the best talent" race, of course it will all go pro. If that's what UT wants, fine.....I love the Vols, but I'm also a realist. It's essentially pro ball now.

Leave and call it pro and let a school that can't afford to be pro enjoy sports. The SEC and B1G don't give a dang about other schools folding their athletic programs. For them, it's more eyeballs on their business.

 

[VOLfrombama]

I don’t know about anybody else but I’m dang sure not “sharing” revenue with anybody if there isn’t some sort of long term agreement involved. Not going to give anybody a share if they can take it and bail after one year. A lot of guys aren’t going to produce in their first year. Don’t want to pay to develop them and then have them actually produce from some other team.

Agreed. They desperately need to change the portal somehow. I dont know id its contracts and buyouts or something similar but its a roster killer. We have gone from players having no power to all the power. Theres gotta be some middle ground.

 

[Delmar]

I mean, most every business in the country shares revenue without long term agreements. But the number on goal by the schools should be to get a handle on the transfers. Whether that’s a one time transfer rule or a sit out a year if you transfer rule, that’s what needs to happen.

True but most businesses don’t have a limited window for the employee to perform. Most businesses I know want to keep valuable employees and don’t want to train new folks year after year.

I agree that the transfer portal is the area that needs work. I’m thinking of a minimum of 2 years commitment if they can figure out a legal way to do it. Just can’t see doing it year by year. There will always be somebody offering more money to get a player to move.

 

[VOLfrombama]

It will work but only as a pro league at the SEC and B1G level. Schools like UT NEED to get away from the school before they destroy college athletics for MANY more athletes that would like the old "I play football for my school in exchange for an education" method.

If the big schools insist on making college athletics a "big bids for the best talent" race, of course it will all go pro. If that's what UT wants, fine.....I love the Vols, but I'm also a realist. It's essentially pro ball now.

Leave and call it pro and let a school that can't afford to be pro enjoy sports. The SEC and B1G don't give a dang about other schools folding their athletic programs. For them, it's more eyeballs on their business.

Agreed. Its been a long time coming but the AA has almost single handedly ruined football with their lack of leadership and direction.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

True but most businesses don’t have a limited window for the employee to perform. Most businesses I know want to keep valuable employees and don’t want to train new folks year after year.

I agree that the transfer portal is the area that needs work. I’m thinking of a minimum of 2 years commitment if they can figure out a legal way to do it. Just can’t see doing it year by year. There will always be somebody offering more money to get a player to move.

The only way or ways to legally do it is make them university employees, or let them unionize and make that part of the CBA.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Agreed. Its been a long time coming but the AA has almost single handedly ruined football with their lack of leadership and direction.

There was nothing they could do because all the big schools cheated for decades turning college into a "bid for the best talent" situation WAY WAY before it became legal. The NCAA didn't police it fairly because THEY were getting rich off the games too.

Everyone in the NCAA and big schools went after the big TV revenue that winning brought. Education went out the window decades ago and THAT'S when it all went to hell.

Admins who were supposed to be dedicated to educating students began to be dedicated to how much revenue their school could bring in no matter what rules they had to break to get it. Hire dirty coaches that win? Check. Make sure your boosters know who to contact to pay athletes? Check. Educate the athletes? Uh.... well.... uh, sure, let me get the tutors to do work for them.

As for the NCAA, they saw a ton of revenue from bball, which has been just as dirty as football if not worse for decades. They ignored as much as they could about payments in bball and football, about sexual assaults by athletes, and anything else that dampened the revenue stream.

Nobody in the high levels of education cared about education anymore. Of course education lost out to money and no one, not the NCAA, not the school admins, not the coaches...... nobody cared after awhile.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

If every university with a football program is forced to pay all players the same benefits and pension as other employees, it will bankrupt the entire university.

Making them employees will force institutions to go in a completely different direction from a budgetary aspect, and therefore I don't believe it will ever happen. I think it will force football into a minor league model where it will be funded solely by itself and not the university. I have no idea exactly how it will work between student athletes and their participation in the league, but i do think 90% of the universities could no longer afford football if they are suddenly forced to give them employee status with salary and benefits.

No, it won't. Not when multi million dollar coaches salaries don't bankrupt the universities.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

There was nothing they could do because all the big schools cheated for decades turning college into a "bid for the best talent" situation WAY WAY before it became legal. The NCAA didn't police it fairly because THEY were getting rich off the games too.

Everyone in the NCAA and big schools went after the big TV revenue that winning brought. Education went out the window decades ago and THAT'S when it all went to hell.

Admins who were supposed to be dedicated to educating students began to be dedicated to how much revenue their school could bring in no matter what rules they had to break to get it. Hire dirty coaches that win? Check. Make sure your boosters know who to contact to pay athletes? Check. Educate the athletes? Uh.... well.... uh, sure, let me get the tutors to do work for them.

As for the NCAA, they saw a ton of revenue from bball, which has been just as dirty as football if not worse for decades. They ignored as much as they could about payments in bball and football, about sexual assaults by athletes, and anything else that dampened the revenue stream.

Nobody in the high levels of education cared about education anymore. Of course education lost out to money and no one, not the NCAA, not the school admins, not the coaches...... nobody cared after awhile.

Bogus. UT is still an university with a primary mission of education. Football supports the University in a mutually beneficial symbiosis.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

True but most businesses don’t have a limited window for the employee to perform. Most businesses I know want to keep valuable employees and don’t want to train new folks year after year.

I agree that the transfer portal is the area that needs work. I’m thinking of a minimum of 2 years commitment if they can figure out a legal way to do it. Just can’t see doing it year by year. There will always be somebody offering more money to get a player to move.

There is no legal way to do it without...

A Congressional antitrust exemption
Employee status for athletes
Athlete unionization and collective bargaining.
The right to strike.
Unlimited eligibility
No student status or academic requirements.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Bogus. UT is still an university with a primary mission of education. Football supports the University in a mutually beneficial symbiosis.

Hehehehe.

If you still believe the primary mission of the athletic department at UT is about education, you are beyond naive. It's a business.

They'd drop education in a heartbeat because the tutoring, etc does ZERO, LESS THAN ZERO, to help the goal of winning.

 

[Delmar]

There is no legal way to do it without...

A Congressional antitrust exemption
Employee status for athletes
Athlete unionization and collective bargaining.
The right to strike.
Unlimited eligibility
No student status or academic requirements.

In other words: NFL Lite.

 

[VOLfrombama]

No, it won't. Not when multi million dollar coaches salaries don't bankrupt the universities.

it absolutely will. You’re talking about a union of employees that will be allowed to negotiate salaries and benefits with their employers. It will absolutely shut hundreds of programs down.

 

[OrangeInKy]

Rothstein says that 5 years of eligibility are being discussed.

And then it will be 6, then 7 , and so on

 

[VOLfrombama]

In other words: NFL Lite.

Exactly. It will basically be a new corporation. How they participate in education is the main issue there. they can fix everything else like portal, contracts, salary cap etc

 

[NighthawkVol]

Now we have a legal eagle endorsing this. What does that tell you? We're about to get screwed somehow, some way. Book it. Your honor, I rest my case.

Anyone has the right to try to navigate the law without the help of lawyers. It usually works out well. Ask the NCAA.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Anyone had the right to try to navigate the law without the help of lawyers. It usually works out well. Ask the NCAA.

The NCAA has lawyers. No matter how good they are, they couldn't get around the antitrust and discrimination issues regarding the portal and now non NCAA football counting against NCAA eligibility.