House v. NCAA settlement fallout

#51
#51
Exactly. It will basically be a new corporation. How they participate in education is the main issue there. they can fix everything else like portal, contracts, salary cap etc
Why participate in education if you're hiring athletes for sports? Does the NFL or NBA or MLB?

It's a pro sports business. If you want to go to school, go to school. If you want to make money, make money.

If I'm paying a guy big money to play a sport, I don't want them distracted by a freaking History 2 test. C'mon.
 
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#53
#53
The NCAA has lawyers. No matter how good they are, they couldn't get around the antitrust and discrimination issues regarding the portal and now non NCAA football counting against NCAA eligibility.
Oh I know. I was taking a tongue in cheek shot at the NCAA. And you’re completely right…the law is the law. The NCAA was operating outside of it.

I do think the NCAA could’ve avoided this by capitulating a little before, preventing the lawsuits from being brought forth.
 
#54
#54
Why participate in education if you're hiring athletes for sports? Does the NFL or NBA or MLB?

It's a pro sports business. If you want to go to school, go to school. If you want to make money, make money.

If I'm paying a guy big money to play a sport, I don't want them distracted by a freaking History 2 test. C'mon.
That’s the part I can’t wrap my head around. Will it be the University of Tennessee Volunteer Football team or will it be the Tennessee Volunteers semi professional team? Will the players still participate in college? I agree there’s no point anymore but how will the professional organization be affiliated with the University? Its perplexing.
 
#55
#55
They can't do anything about NIL.
They can't do anything about the portal without an antitrust exemption.
A private organization can set trade rules that essentially do completely away with the need for a transfer portal. NIL is never going away but that same organization will set contract specs. Pro players have NIL, its called endorsements. Commercials, gear, etc. See the NFL for the example of how an organization can do these things and make the other stuff obsolete.
 
#56
#56
Exactly. It will basically be a new corporation. How they participate in education is the main issue there. they can fix everything else like portal, contracts, salary cap etc
Sadly, they can't without Congress giving them the Antitrust Exemption which other major pro sports enjoy. I'm not sure the NFL and NBA want to join their "free farm system" that college provides and share their Antitrust protection.

I don't follow baseball but I'm somewhat doubtful minor league baseball is a big money making business for the pro teams that are connected to them.

While college ball DOES make money, many fans like pretending the team is very connected to the school in some way other than location, logo, etc and say they won't support the teams if they're not "dear old State College" teams. I don't get that viewpoint because elite players have been athletes first and students WAAAAAAAAY second for decades, but if it makes people happy, good for them. If they drop the "college teams" because they're recognized as pro ball, that's their right. If too many of them stop watching over time, the college league either folds or merges with the pro leagues by default.
 
#57
#57
That’s the part I can’t wrap my head around. Will it be the University of Tennessee Volunteer Football team or will it be the Tennessee Volunteers semi professional team? Will the players still participate in college? I agree there’s no point anymore but how will the professional organization be affiliated with the University? Its perplexing.
I've no idea how it will play out. If the heavy revenue schools don't break away from the NCAA and form some sort of pro league, lots of sports (even at UT) will be dropped because paying all the athletes that play for UT is completely insane.

Can the courts carve it out? I'm not sure. Is a track athlete and the time they commit to representing UT different from a football player just because the football player's commitment generates revenue for the school? Why?

The revenue needs to get the heck away from the education. It's not helpful EXCEPT we can't be elite winners without using the revenue. The truth is: we can't educate athletes very well when the revenue is so large that we're elite.

Choices are going to have to be made, IMO.
 
#58
#58
Revenue based athletics like The University of Tennessee at Knoxville's athletic department generates its own revenue, primarily through ticket sales, media rights deals, sponsorships, and donations (like the Tennessee Fund).

It also manages its own expenditures related to athletic operations. The athletic department is financially self-sustaining and does not rely on state funding for operations, though there may be occasional state-related funding for capital projects or facilities.

As a public university, UT has a trustees, governor appointed, UT must adhere to state laws, regulations, financial reporting requirements and is under gov't oversight but indirectly operates under the general framework of state governance. However, the department itself manages its day-to-day operations and decisions without direct intervention from the state in normal circumstances.

With all this factual, how would universities like UT change over to a state employee situation without making their athletic departments be run directly by the government or government agency? If so, how would that work and how would that turn out for all involved from the players to the fans know how well governments take in money and use it so well to the benefit of the governed people?
 
#59
#59
Revenue based athletics like The University of Tennessee at Knoxville's athletic department generates its own revenue, primarily through ticket sales, media rights deals, sponsorships, and donations (like the Tennessee Fund).

It also manages its own expenditures related to athletic operations. The athletic department is financially self-sustaining and does not rely on state funding for operations, though there may be occasional state-related funding for capital projects or facilities.

As a public university, UT has a trustees, governor appointed, UT must adhere to state laws, regulations, financial reporting requirements and is under gov't oversight but indirectly operates under the general framework of state governance. However, the department itself manages its day-to-day operations and decisions without direct intervention from the state in normal circumstances.

With all this factual, how would universities like UT change over to a state employee situation without making their athletic departments be run directly by the government or government agency? If so, how would that work and how would that turn out for all involved from the players to the fans know how well governments take in money and use it so well to the benefit of the governed people?
For me, the SEC and B1G universities needs to spin the athletic departments off as a business.

In our case with Danny White as CEO and a new Board of Directors. Cut ties with the university except to lease Neyland, Anderson, the logo, etc and drop the education requirements and the NCAA and function as a new pro league.

They can decide which sports to take (football, basketball, and baseball most likely) and leave the other sports to the university to fund and run using the lease/logo money, if desired.

And pray Congress recognizes the new league and grants an Antitrust Exemption OR the pro leagues divvy up the teams as minor league programs (which is unlikely, IMO.)

It sucks but the whole thing sucks. Let's try not to destroy other university sports programs and non-revenue sports.
 
#60
#60
For me, the SEC and B1G universities needs to spin the athletic departments off as a business.

In our case with Danny White as CEO and a new Board of Directors. Cut ties with the university except to lease Neyland, Anderson, the logo, etc and drop the education requirements and the NCAA and function as a new pro league.

They can decide which sports to take (football, basketball, and baseball most likely) and leave the other sports to the university to fund and run using the lease/logo money, if desired.

And pray Congress recognizes the new league and grants an Antitrust Exemption OR the pro leagues divvy up the teams as minor league programs (which is unlikely, IMO.)

It sucks but the whole thing sucks. Let's try not to destroy other university sports programs and non-revenue sports.
Would the university want to fund the non-revenue sports without the funds from the football program? Could get pretty expensive.
 
#61
#61
Would the university want to fund the non-revenue sports without the funds from the football program? Could get pretty expensive.
That's where the lease money comes in. The Power T, Neyland, T-B Arena, Anderson, etc are valuable.

If the "pro Vols" don't want them, they'll lose a big, BIG part of the fanbase and make themselves less valuable to ESPN, so I'd bet they'll pay nicely.
 
#62
#62
I didn't read every post, so sorry if already discussed.

One of the things that the collective bargaining did for NFL players was put an end to the $80million contracts for rookies who have never played a game. Now, they get paid, but have to prove themselves before getting the big $.

This is one thing that would help CFB. Paying players huge $ for "potential" before they prove themselves will put an end to a lot of the foolishness going on right now.
 
#63
#63
Why participate in education if you're hiring athletes for sports? Does the NFL or NBA or MLB?

It's a pro sports business. If you want to go to school, go to school. If you want to make money, make money.

If I'm paying a guy big money to play a sport, I don't want them distracted by a freaking History 2 test. C'mon.
Most players in college still take their academics seriously. I think they will find a way to make it work. The football programs are going to have to stay connected to the university. They know what makes college sports to the fans. Congress could decide to go a few ways. They can impose exemptions and totally new laws for college sports that works for the fans,the players and the university. If they lose the university connection that will be the one thing that waters down everything. I think congress knows what college football means to fans, and I don’t think most players are greedy and only care about money. Playing time is a huge factor in most decisions. I think most players would be fine some type of cap and all scholarship players shared in the team cap money. And also a once a year portal time that was firm. Lawyers and the NCAA never trying to find a common ground was what got us here. The players aren’t the problem, it’s the greedy system that TV and the press has created off the success of the popularity of college football. Baseballs semi pro divisions have tanked over the last several years. The top players are going to college more and more. The semi pro baseball league is losing huge money because of lack of attendance and more and more baseball players going to college. A semi pro league not connected to colleges is going to be a death spiral loser and if they powers to be don’t see it now they will feel it later. I can’t see them cutting the hand that has made college football the giant that it is. GBO
 
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#64
#64
Most players in college still take their academics seriously. I think they will find a way to make it work. The football programs are going to have to stay connected to the university. They know what makes college sports to the fans. Congress could decide to go a few ways. They can impose exemptions and totally new laws for college sports that works for the fans,the players and the university. If they lose the university connection that will be the one thing that waters down everything. I think congress knows what college football means to fans, and I don’t think most players are greedy and only care about money. Playing time is a huge factor in most decisions. I think most players would be fine some type of cap and all scholarship players shared in the team cap money. And also a once a year portal time that was firm. Lawyers and the NCAA never trying to find a common ground was what got us here. The players aren’t the problem, it’s the greedy system that TV and the press has created off the success of the popularity of college football. Baseballs semi pro divisions have tanked over the last several years. The top players are going to college more and more. The semi pro baseball league is losing huge money because of lack of attendance and more and more baseball players going to college. A semi pro league not connected to colleges is going to be a death spiral loser and if they powers to be don’t see it now they will feel it later. GBO
Relying on Congress to fix something is like asking a 4yo to make breakfast:

They'll do something but it probably won't be good and it will definitely leave a big mess to clean up.
 
#65
#65
And the lawyers, and the union.

And the smiley faced tax man. Followed by the disgruntled family members for the rank and file players. The rest of the employees will insure they get equal treatment and pay tuition and housing, etc. in after tax dollars.

Ultimately I think the solution will be a seperate division for pay with 50 or so schools 50 X 105 players, and return the rest of D1,2,3 to the old model with some NIL twists variable by division.
 
#66
#66
If every university with a football program is forced to pay all players the same benefits and pension as other employees, it will bankrupt the entire university.

Making them employees will force institutions to go in a completely different direction from a budgetary aspect, and therefore I don't believe it will ever happen. I think it will force football into a minor league model where it will be funded solely by itself and not the university. I have no idea exactly how it will work between student athletes and their participation in the league, but i do think 90% of the universities could no longer afford football if they are suddenly forced to give them employee status with salary and benefits.
I doubt 4-5 years would have them vested for any pension. 5 is about the minimum to get anything out of a pension system and it’s generally peanuts unless you’re in for at least 15-20.
 
#68
#68
Sports leagues are different. Both the NFL and NBA are fully vested in 3 seasons. MLB is 10.
And those nfl pensions are significantly more than government employees, so i would assume that the newly formed players union would do everything they could to get players pensions as high as possible. Everything is going to mimic the NFL imo. Maybe not the dollar amounts, but definitely the model.
 
#71
#71
And those nfl pensions are significantly more than government employees, so i would assume that the newly formed players union would do everything they could to get players pensions as high as possible. Everything is going to mimic the NFL imo. Maybe not the dollar amounts, but definitely the model.
I'm not convinced the "student" aspect remains after they're declared "employees" so playing for years, well beyond 4 or 5, seems likely to me.

Age discrimination being what it is, the only reason college athletes are limited in eligibility now is "school takes 4 years" but as employees, keeping the student requirement will be legally iffy, IMO.
 
#73
#73
I'm not convinced the "student" aspect remains after they're declared "employees" so playing for years, well beyond 4 or 5, seems likely to me.

Age discrimination being what it is, the only reason college athletes are limited in eligibility now is "school takes 4 years" but as employees, keeping the student requirement will be legally iffy, IMO.
Agreed. From my perspective, these are now professional athletes. Dispense with the "student" aspect altogether. Let schools hire HS athletes to play for them. I would eliminate the problems coaches face with the timing of the portal to accommodate the academic calendar. Put 'em under contract to play. If they decide to participate in college while there, let them pay their own way. Not sure how many would take advantage of the opportunity, but that's their call.
 
#74
#74
Agreed. From my perspective, these are now professional athletes. Dispense with the "student" aspect altogether. Let schools hire HS athletes to play for them. I would eliminate the problems coaches face with the timing of the portal to accommodate the academic calendar. Put 'em under contract to play. If they decide to participate in college while there, let them pay their own way. Not sure how many would take advantage of the opportunity, but that's their call.
The problem is "aging out of the league" may be illegal age discrimination so a player may have a 10yr "college" career.

As employees, with school attendance not involved, what gives the league the right to say "your eligibility is finished?" Why?

Employee status is when the school connection is completely broken. Schools shouldn't be in the pro sports business.
 
#75
#75
A private organization can set trade rules that essentially do completely away with the need for a transfer portal. NIL is never going away but that same organization will set contract specs. Pro players have NIL, its called endorsements. Commercials, gear, etc. See the NFL for the example of how an organization can do these things and make the other stuff obsolete.
Again, the NFL has an antitrust exemption.
The NCAA does not. Ergo, college sports can't follow the NFL model without an ATE.

Further, pro athletes can make every penny of NIL they can get. The pro leagues can't regulate it or interfere with it in any way.

If the NCAA does get an ATE (unlikely) then hello athletes as employees, unions and collective bargaining, strikes, and the other things in the NFL model.

Then there would be a 131 team draft compared to 32 in the NFL. No recruiting. Involuntary trades. The military academies wouldn't be able to play football, at least at the FBS level

What you discuss would be far worse than the current situation.
 

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