How do we win in Afghanistan?

[Grand Vol]

Then what was the point of the speech?!?!?!?

Come on, don't make it partisan. Just WTF does "enduring outcome" or whatever mean? Real results? What results.

What you are telling me is that he said nothing of any substance.

Don't let me make it partisan? You are the one that had to predicate your comments with "now, this isn't anti-Trump...but I'm gonna go full anti-Trump and ask questions I know can't be answered in a simple 20 minute speech."

 

[carlos86]

Pakistan we will revoke aide if you don't get your **** together

India step to the plate

Handcuffs off generals and service people to do what they see fit

Destruction of terrorists

India needs an incentive to step up to the plate. The only possible incentives are counteracting China and Pakistan.

 

[lawgator1]

See my post above. Let the man give his speech tonight and deal with the minutia in a couple of days.

Have a nice cup of STFU at the moment and be glad he's no longer nation building, is calling out Pakistan for what it is and is attempting to bring other nations instead of us bearing all the risks.

Minutia??????

The WHOLE POINT is to identify a goal, meet it, and get out. If there's a goal justifying more troops, that's a whole lot more than minutia.

This is sounding more and more like all it was in the end was him bashing Obama for putting a timetable on some withdrawals, hinting we are going to deploy more troops, but not wanting to own up to it, and YET AGAIN, LIKE THE TWO ADMINISTRATIONS BEFORE HIM, having no Earthly idea as to what the goal is.

We are idiots. To start with, we learned nothing from the Soviets. Then, we went in under false pretenses. Then we stayed just because nobody wants to be the one that admits this is BS.

 

[Grand Vol]

Minutia??????

The WHOLE POINT is to identify a goal, meet it, and get out. If there's a goal justifying more troops, that's a whole lot more than minutia.

This is sounding more and more like all it was in the end was him bashing Obama for putting a timetable on some withdrawals, hinting we are going to deploy more troops, but not wanting to own up to it, and YET AGAIN, LIKE THE TWO ADMINISTRATIONS BEFORE HIM, having no Earthly idea as to what the goal is.

We are idiots. To start with, we learned nothing from the Soviets. Then, we went in under false pretenses. Then we stayed just because nobody wants to be the one that admits this is BS.

If that's all you took from the speech, which you haven't watched by your own admittance, I just can't help you.

 

[lawgator1]

If that's all you took from the speech, which you haven't watched by your own admittance, I just can't help you.

I'm basing it on what you told me. 1) no timetable; 2) unidentified conditions; 3) probably more troops.

Bannon is going after him. It's just more of the same unlimited war. No goal. No plan. No end.

 

[volinbham]

Minutia??????

The WHOLE POINT is to identify a goal, meet it, and get out. If there's a goal justifying more troops, that's a whole lot more than minutia.

This is sounding more and more like all it was in the end was him bashing Obama for putting a timetable on some withdrawals, hinting we are going to deploy more troops, but not wanting to own up to it, and YET AGAIN, LIKE THE TWO ADMINISTRATIONS BEFORE HIM, having no Earthly idea as to what the goal is.

We are idiots. To start with, we learned nothing from the Soviets. Then, we went in under false pretenses. Then we stayed just because nobody wants to be the one that admits this is BS.

I remember when you defended Obama's lack of specificity and demanded anyone who criticized them provide their own detailed plan AND proof it would work.

hack, hack, hack.

 

[volinbham]

If that's all you took from the speech, which you haven't watched by your own admittance, I just can't help you.

no kidding.

there is no good solution but positives from tonight:

1. fight terrorists; don't try to install democracy in country
2. empower commanders to achieve #1 above through decision making authority and realistic RoE.
3. pressure immediate neighbors to join in.
4. get rid of artificial deadlines.

Honestly, I don't see what to criticize unless you want to bail completely and of course that has it's own set of nasty consequences.

 

[AirVol]

I'm basing it on what you told me. 1) no timetable; 2) unidentified conditions; 3) probably more troops.

Bannon is going after him. It's just more of the same unlimited war. No goal. No plan. No end.

Military strategy is don't tell your enemy your goals, your plan, or timetable.

 

[lawgator1]

I remember when you defended Obama's lack of specificity and demanded anyone who criticized them provide their own detailed plan AND proof it would work.

hack, hack, hack.

I don't have one. Never claimed I did. A couple of years ago Trump said he knows more than the generals and we need to leave Afghanistan. Now he's saying we have some sort of plan, maybe, and we'd like others to help us (duh), and just more of the same.

As far as I can tell, no one in the administration including the generals really is willing to say the obvious: there's no such thing as being "finished" in Afghanistan.

 

[volinbham]

I don't have one. Never claimed I did. A couple of years ago Trump said he knows more than the generals and we need to leave Afghanistan. Now he's saying we have some sort of plan, maybe, and we'd like others to help us (duh), and just more of the same.

As far as I can tell, no one in the administration including the generals really is willing to say the obvious: there's no such thing as being "finished" in Afghanistan.

using your rules you can't criticize if you can't lay out the detailed plan and prove it works.

hop to it man.

also, it's not more of the same; may not work but it is significantly different in approach.

 

[lawgator1]

Military strategy is don't tell your enemy your goals, your plan, or timetable.

I think we can say what we want to accomplish. That's not giving anything away. It's not like capture the flag. There must be some sort of measurable goal. Otherwise we will never leave.

 

[volinbham]

I think we can say what we want to accomplish. That's not giving anything away. It's not like capture the flag. There must be some sort of measurable goal. Otherwise we will never leave.

so the day after announcing a troop surge you think you should announce the day you are leaving? Is that a measurable goal?

(Hint: the last guy did that)

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So instead of pulling out, we're doubling down? And you all approve of this action?

 

[Zetter]

So instead of pulling out, we're doubling down? And you all approve of this action?

Would you like them to get stronger and more organized.

 

[armchair]

Trump is essentially maintaining the status quo and trying to spin his plan as something new and different. It's not--there is no new and different there. We've been killing radicals since we got there 17 years ago. It's just another example of Trump's campaign BS not matching up with reality.

 

[volfanhill]

I don't have one. Never claimed I did. A couple of years ago Trump said he knows more than the generals and we need to leave Afghanistan. Now he's saying we have some sort of plan, maybe, and we'd like others to help us (duh), and just more of the same.

As far as I can tell, no one in the administration including the generals really is willing to say the obvious: there's no such thing as being "finished" in Afghanistan.

What part of destroying Al-Quaeda is the only mission do you not get? No nation building.

 

[volfanhill]

So instead of pulling out, we're doubling down? And you all approve of this action?

Yes we get you

 

[volfanhill]

Trump is essentially maintaining the status quo and trying to spin his plan as something new and different. It's not--there is no new and different there. We've been killing radicals since we got there 17 years ago. It's just another example of Trump's campaign BS not matching up with reality.

What? He has changed the rules of engagement. He put Pakistan on notice. And we aren't nation building. We are terrorist killing. That's it.

 

[Zetter]

Trump is essentially maintaining the status quo and trying to spin his plan as something new and different. It's not--there is no new and different there. We've been killing radicals since we got there 17 years ago. It's just another example of Trump's campaign BS not matching up with reality.

Does this 17 years include Obama's term as standard BS of not matching up with reality.

 

[volsarelife1]

Trump is essentially maintaining the status quo and trying to spin his plan as something new and different. It's not--there is no new and different there. We've been killing radicals since we got there 17 years ago. It's just another example of Trump's campaign BS not matching up with reality.

You mean like the campaign that Obama campaigned on 8 years ago of pulling troops from Afgan? Is that the campaign that doesn't match with reality?

 

[volinbham]

So instead of pulling out, we're doubling down? And you all approve of this action?

Not doubling down - changing strategy.

Honestly, I think pulling out will work out just like it did in Iraq

 

[lawgator1]

so the day after announcing a troop surge you think you should announce the day you are leaving? Is that a measurable goal?

(Hint: the last guy did that)

I've seen it now.

Other than the timeframe, it was exactly the same speech Obama gave.

It's confusing. It's unclear. It's vague. It has no point. It identifies no goal. It describes no plan.

It's just word salad. Total nothing burger. And now it's Trump's nothing burger.

 

[lawgator1]

Not doubling down - changing strategy.

Honestly, I think pulling out will work out just like it did in Iraq

You might be right.

But the alternative seems to be to make Afghanistan a permanent ward of the US.

 

[volsarelife1]

I've seen it now.

Other than the timeframe, it was exactly the same speech Obama gave.

It's confusing. It's unclear. It's vague. It has no point. It identifies no goal. It describes no plan.

It's just word salad. Total nothing burger. And now it's Trump's nothing burger.

You just described the past 8 years.

 

[Grand Vol]

I don't have one. Never claimed I did. A couple of years ago Trump said he knows more than the generals and we need to leave Afghanistan. Now he's saying we have some sort of plan, maybe, and we'd like others to help us (duh), and just more of the same.

As far as I can tell, no one in the administration including the generals really is willing to say the obvious: there's no such thing as being "finished" in Afghanistan.

Maybe you should actually watch the speech.

Would do your lack of an argument a world of good.