How good is Cooper Flagg?

[omghulkhands]

HOT TAKE: Give me a healthy Chet ALL DAY, EVERY DAY!

I think Flagg is a point forward without one truly elite skill. Reminds me of a guy like Lamar Odom or Luol Deng. I do think Flagg will affect winning big time, but he won't have that jump-out trait that gets him in the top tier. He'll make a handful of all-star teams, average 17-7-5...but he's not going to be your #1 on a championship team. I don't get the comps to Webber, etc.

Flame away.

Chet has a higher ceiling. Flagg has a higher floor.

Really good prospects in different ways.

Also, Flagg seems to be pretty healthy. Many top prospects have questionable injury, health or even motivation concerns.

I think the Odom comp (skill wise) is pretty good. I think Deng is clearly worse though.

I’ve said before, I think Flagg is Scottie Pippen / Grant Hill / Jimmy Butler. Won’t be the best player on a championship team. But can be an all-time Robin. So I don’t totally disagree. I think we see it about the same

 

[BillyHoyleVol]

Chet has a higher ceiling. Flagg has a higher floor.

Really good prospects in different ways.

Also, Flagg seems to be pretty healthy. Many top prospects have questionable injury, health or even motivation concerns.

I think the Odom comp (skill wise) is pretty good. I think Deng is clearly worse though.

I’ve said before, I think Flagg is Scottie Pippen / Grant Hill / Jimmy Butler. Won’t be the best player on a championship team. But can be an all-time Robin. So I don’t totally disagree. I think we see it about the same

I've often thought Flagg is a poor man's Pippen (I said Loul Deng, but was thinking Iggy). I think he's going to be remembered more as a winning player than a generational guy. I don't think he ever scores at the level of Tatum. I see a little PG there, Iggy...I don't think he's pre-ankle as athletic as Hill, but then he's also a far better shooter. Ceiling-Pippen, ground level-Odom, Disaster-Boris Diaw

Some of the stuff Chet pulls out is stupid. He's got some dog, too. I wish he and Wemby could stay on the court. Thats like classic NBA fun. I think the sample size is in, though...Chet is not going to be healthy enough to be a perennial all-star/all-NBA...even all-defense kind of guy. Hitting the games-played threshold will be tough for him.

 

[omghulkhands]

I've often thought Flagg is a poor man's Pippen (I said Loul Deng, but was thinking Iggy). I think he's going to be remembered more as a winning player than a generational guy. I don't think he ever scores at the level of Tatum. I see a little PG there, Iggy...I don't think he's pre-ankle as athletic as Hill, but then he's also a far better shooter. Ceiling-Pippen, ground level-Odom, Disaster-Boris Diaw

Some of the stuff Chet pulls out is stupid. He's got some dog, too. I wish he and Wemby could stay on the court. Thats like classic NBA fun. I think the sample size is in, though...Chet is not going to be healthy enough to be a perennial all-star/all-NBA...even all-defense kind of guy. Hitting the games-played threshold will be tough for him.

Ahh Iggy. Yeah that’s a pretty good one.

 

[sami]

HOT TAKE: Give me a healthy Chet ALL DAY, EVERY DAY!

I think Flagg is a point forward without one truly elite skill. Reminds me of a guy like Lamar Odom or Luol Deng. I do think Flagg will affect winning big time, but he won't have that jump-out trait that gets him in the top tier. He'll make a handful of all-star teams, average 17-7-5...but he's not going to be your #1 on a championship team. I don't get the comps to Webber, etc.

Flame away.

Forgot about Chet, who I also love as a player. Elite shot blocker and is a 7-footer who plays like a wing.

Actually, I think your analysis of Flagg might be spot on. If he can't consistently shoot at least 35% from 3, he isn't going to be an elite pro, because he doesn't do anything else at a level that stands out. He'll definitely be a guy you'll want on a playoff team.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Chet has a higher ceiling. Flagg has a higher floor.

Really good prospects in different ways.

Also, Flagg seems to be pretty healthy. Many top prospects have questionable injury, health or even motivation concerns.

I think the Odom comp (skill wise) is pretty good. I think Deng is clearly worse though.

I’ve said before, I think Flagg is Scottie Pippen / Grant Hill / Jimmy Butler. Won’t be the best player on a championship team. But can be an all-time Robin. So I don’t totally disagree. I think we see it about the same

I think part of Flagg’s game that gets overlooked is his ability to pass the ball and his defense. He’s a good on the ball defender, but he’s even better off the ball. He has long arms and the ability to get off the floor quickly. He was probably responsible for 8 points taken off the board vs UNC bc of his quick reaction of blocking dunks and layups .

 

[n_huffhines]

Flagg shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as guys like Carmelo, AD, Beasley, Edey. He is good but not generational good.

LMAO

 

[n_huffhines]

I think part of Flagg’s game that gets overlooked is his ability to pass the ball and his defense. He’s a good on the ball defender, but he’s even better off the ball. He has long arms and the ability to get off the floor quickly. He was probably responsible for 8 points taken off the board vs UNC bc of his quick reaction of blocking dunks and layups .

Yeah, I'm only through page 1 of this thread, but nobody has made any comp to a guy that passes well. Flagg is so good at getting to the nail and then finding guys from there. He's not going to be Luka, but he's going to do some Luka things.

 

[n_huffhines]

It might still be, because Wemby is generational and was drafted 2 years ago, but I hope you're right

I feel like generational makes sense because even though there are other prospects on the same level/better than him in the recent past, there isn't anybody specifically like him that's this good. The last truly great wing prospect is who? Lebron? Anthony Edwards was just 6 years ago, and Flagg may never be that good, but he's a better prospect.

The craziest thing is Flagg is supposed to still be in HS.

 

[n_huffhines]

I don’t agree with you exactly…but it’s not a long list of American prospects since LeBron I can think of that I’d have confidently rated higher than Flagg.

Zion
Davis
Oden
Durant

That’s probably the end of my list.

Then I think there is a list of 5 or so guys where it’s close to even. But not clear like the above.

He's arguably a better prospect than all of them.

It wasn't clear what Zion would be in the NBA, and he rightfully came with injury concerns.

Oden was maybe 25 years ago, but not today.

KD is truly a unicorn, but there were big concerns about how his frame would hold up.

I agree on Davis, except Flagg may go over him simply because AD wasn't a ballhandler, and it's nearly impossible to be a top 5 player and not be a ballhandler, anymore.

Flagg has no red, or even yellow, um...flags.

 

[n_huffhines]

HOT TAKE: Give me a healthy Chet ALL DAY, EVERY DAY!

I think Flagg is a point forward without one truly elite skill. Reminds me of a guy like Lamar Odom or Luol Deng. I do think Flagg will affect winning big time, but he won't have that jump-out trait that gets him in the top tier. He'll make a handful of all-star teams, average 17-7-5...but he's not going to be your #1 on a championship team. I don't get the comps to Webber, etc.

Flame away.

He just barely turned 18. You're not supposed to be elite skill-wise for another 7 years, after you've played in 300+ NBA games and had a couple good playoff runs.

 

[omghulkhands]

He's arguably a better prospect than all of them.

It wasn't clear what Zion would be in the NBA, and he rightfully came with injury concerns.

Oden was maybe 25 years ago, but not today.

KD is truly a unicorn, but there were big concerns about how his frame would hold up.

I agree on Davis, except Flagg may go over him simply because AD wasn't a ballhandler, and it's nearly impossible to be a top 5 player and not be a ballhandler, anymore.

Flagg has no red, or even yellow, um...flags.

Sure. for clarity I wasn’t being revisionist in my evaluations. Like, I wasn’t thinking about Oden from the perspective of today’s NBA and what we know about his injuries.

 

[n_huffhines]

Chet has a higher ceiling. Flagg has a higher floor.

Really good prospects in different ways.

Also, Flagg seems to be pretty healthy. Many top prospects have questionable injury, health or even motivation concerns.

I think the Odom comp (skill wise) is pretty good. I think Deng is clearly worse though.

I’ve said before, I think Flagg is Scottie Pippen / Grant Hill / Jimmy Butler. Won’t be the best player on a championship team. But can be an all-time Robin. So I don’t totally disagree. I think we see it about the same

Chet is not ever going to be a load-bearing ball-handler. He maxes out as a stretch big who can defend the rim and handle the ball a little on short rolls, and he can attack the close out. There is a ton of value in that, but not top 5 player value. And Flagg's ceiling is best player in the league.

 

[omghulkhands]

Chet is not ever going to be a load-bearing ball-handler. He maxes out as a stretch big who can defend the rim and handle the ball a little on short rolls, and he can attack the close out. There is a ton of value in that, but not top 5 player value. And Flagg's ceiling is best player in the league.

I don’t think Chet’s ever gonna stay healthy long enough for this conversation to matter.

But I do think, while unlikely, he does have Top 5 player potential because his rim defense as a wing is so valuable in the current NBA, that if he can semi-efficiently score in the 20-22 ppg range, he is in the conversation for a top 5 player.

Again, probably moot.

As for Flagg. Best American player in the NBA? I can see it.

Best overall player as his ceiling? Idk if I’m there. His career is gonna overlap with Wemby and it’s hard for me to imagine him being better than Wemby if Wemby stays healthy.

 

[n_huffhines]

I don’t think Chet’s ever gonna stay healthy long enough for this conversation to matter.

But I do think, while unlikely, he does have Top 5 player potential because his rim defense as a wing is so valuable in the current NBA, that if he can semi-efficiently score in the 20-22 ppg range, he is in the conversation for a top 5 player.

Again, probably moot.

As for Flagg. Best American player in the NBA? I can see it.

Best overall player as his ceiling? Idk if I’m there. His career is gonna overlap with Wemby and it’s hard for me to imagine him being better than Wemby if Wemby stays healthy.

Chet is amazing, but all the top 9 players* are ball-handlers, and the evolution of the game would probably have to change directions (a big rule change?) for a non-ballhandler to be a top 5 player again. Chet is on such a good team that he's not really going to get a chance to develop those skills.

Even if he's the 2nd best player in the league behind Wemby, for all intents and purposes, saying his ceiling is best player would be accurate.

* https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

Edit: I just want to make it clear, I think Chet can be a top 10 player. He could be doing Julius Randle stat lines (23 and 4) plus the screen threat, with elite D on the other end. That's an elite player. But probably not a top 5 player.

 

[omghulkhands]

Chet is amazing, but all the top 9 players* are ball-handlers, and the evolution of the game would probably have to change directions (a big rule change?) for a non-ballhandler to be a top 5 player again. Chet is on such a good team that he's not really going to get a chance to develop those skills.

Even if he's the 2nd best player in the league behind Wemby, for all intents and purposes, saying his ceiling is best player would be accurate.

* https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

It’s a fun conversation.

Durant was top 5 in the modern NBA for a long time, and I don’t think he really meets any definition of a ball handler (and we can get pedantic on what ball handler really means)

And I think Chet can be like if you took Durant’s offensive and defensive sliders, and swapped them. More or less.

 

[n_huffhines]

It’s a fun conversation.

Durant was top 5 in the modern NBA for a long time, and I don’t think he really meets any definition of a ball handler (and we can get pedantic on what ball handler really means)

And I think Chet can be like if you took Durant’s offensive and defensive sliders, and swapped them. More or less.

KD can get his own shot off the dribble every time, so yes, he's a ball-handler.

 

[omghulkhands]

KD can get his own shot off the dribble every time, so yes, he's a ball-handler.

Interesting. So do you classify Embiid as a ball handler?

 

[n_huffhines]

Interesting. So do you classify Embiid as a ball handler?

Yes, even before he got up to 5 apg

 

[omghulkhands]

Yes, even before he got up to 5 apg

Ok I think I understand your definition of ball handler a little better now and that’s fair

 

[n_huffhines]

Ok I think I understand your definition of ball handler a little better now and that’s fair

JJ Redick's pod is sorely missed. I learned a lot from him. This is something so simple and self-evident, but nobody had ever put it in these terms to me. Paraphrasing: the whole key to offensive basketball is getting two on the ball (meaning, you've forced the D to send a help defender).

We say defense wins championships, but that very rarely happens without one or two offensive players who are great/elite at breaking the D. Back in the day, the best way to get 2 on the ball was a big deep in the post. Now it's off the dribble drive and high screens, which are both based on ball-handling skills.

 

[sami]

JJ Redick's pod is sorely missed. I learned a lot from him. This is something so simple and self-evident, but nobody had ever put it in these terms to me. Paraphrasing: the whole key to offensive basketball is getting two on the ball (meaning, you've forced the D to send a help defender).

We say defense wins championships, but that very rarely happens without one or two offensive players who are great/elite at breaking the D. Back in the day, the best way to get 2 on the ball was a big deep in the post. Now it's off the dribble drive and high screens, which are both based on ball-handling skills.

The high ball screen has taken over the pro game, and is taking over the college game. It seems to be virtually indefensible if you have the right personnel running it unless defensive personnel can switch 1-5 and has multiple rim protectors.

 

[sami]

Flagg twisted his ankle today against Ga. Tech, and it doesn't look good at all.

 

[JCP201]

Flagg twisted his ankle today against Ga. Tech, and it doesn't look good at all.

These conference championships can definitely be risky, especially for a definite one seed. . They are saying he will most likely miss the first game.

 

[sami]

These conference championships can definitely be risky, especially for a definite one seed. . They are saying he will most likely miss the first game.

They'd better hope it isn't a high ankle sprain or he's going to miss more than that, probably the whole NCAA.

 

[StarRaider]

These conference championships can definitely be risky, especially for a definite one seed. . They are saying he will most likely miss the first game.

miss the first game of what? the NCAA tourney? are they saying Flagg is out for the weekend ACC tourney?