How good will NC State be?

[Brooktrout]

I'm sure you would. Just automatically. Just a kneejerk reaction.

O'Brien had 3 consecutive losing seasons at NCSU before going 9-4 and 8-5 in the last two. So basically it took this "better" coach 3 losing seasons before beginning to do anything at all in the ACC, right? Think about it...

I'm not saying Dooley is better. I am saying that I don't know how you can make that particular judgment before Dooley really has a chance to prove himself one way or the other.

Yo, O'brien has been a HC for 10 years at BC, with 8winning seasons and 8 straight bowls, where his teams went 7-1 in Bowls and 75-45 overall. He had previously been an asst. under George Walsh at UVA for 15 years, earning his stripes. Prior to that he served 9 years in the Marines after graduating from Annapolis.

At NCSU, O'Brien is 33-30 in 5 years with 3 bowl appearances and a 2-1 bowl record. His overall career coaching record is 108-75.

Dooley was the HC at NE LaTech Inst for 3 years, where he had an overall losing record of 17-20. This got him promoted to the HC job at UT in the SEC. He has led the UT program to its first ever 2 consecutive losing seasons mark, has an overall losing record of 11-14 at UT (4-12 in the SEC) and to be honest, this year won't be any better after the defection of 7 assistants. He was not, is not and never will be ready for a job of the magnitude of UT. He has been given everything the easy way in his life. O'brien earned his place in the coaching ranks, and 108 wins and 11 bowls later, you cannot compare Dooley with O'brien. Get serious.:loco:

Compa

 

[ob79]

Help me out here, I am trying to remember all the good teams (i.e. teams with a winning record) that UT has beaten with Bray as the starting QB. For some reason my head has gone blank, someone help me out here since my memory is so bad.:banghead2:

Welcome to the conversation we had 3 weeks ago.

...and what exactly does this have to do with his decision making?

If your trying to correlate his decision making to losses, you're reaching. The only game that his decision making was one of the biggest factors to losing the game was the MCB in '10. Otherwise, he's played well considering he had no running game last year or any Pass Blocking the year before.

 

[Kurtastrophe]

If Patterson arrives and lives up to the hype, NC State's weakness (LBs) will be in deep trouble. There aren't many linebacking corps in the entire country that could hang with D. Rogers in the slot.

 

[Mr.Fister]

Yo, O'brien has been a HC for 10 years at BC, with 8winning seasons and 8 straight bowls, where his teams went 7-1 in Bowls and 75-45 overall. He had previously been an asst. under George Walsh at UVA for 15 years, earning his stripes. Prior to that he served 9 years in the Marines after graduating from Annapolis.

At NCSU, O'Brien is 33-30 in 5 years with 3 bowl appearances and a 2-1 bowl record. His overall career coaching record is 108-75.

Dooley was the HC at NE LaTech Inst for 3 years, where he had an overall losing record of 17-20. This got him promoted to the HC job at UT in the SEC. He has led the UT program to its first ever 2 consecutive losing seasons mark, has an overall losing record of 11-14 at UT (4-12 in the SEC) and to be honest, this year won't be any better after the defection of 7 assistants. He was not, is not and never will be ready for a job of the magnitude of UT. He has been given everything the easy way in his life. O'brien earned his place in the coaching ranks, and 108 wins and 11 bowls later, you cannot compare Dooley with O'brien. Get serious.:loco:

Compa

wow std18 got owned again, dont worry buddy he cant help but jump on dooleys nuts any time somebody isnt talking him up as a great coach, hes #1 dooley cheerleader around here.

 

[Mr.Fister]

You're right because Bray was surrounded by a bunch of first rounders. :crazy: You can't correlate his abilities to the number of wins and losses vs MUCH stronger competition when the majority of the team has been down talent wise.

so youre saying the only way bray can win is if he is surrounded by first round draft picks? good luck with that.

Welcome to the conversation we had 3 weeks ago.

...and what exactly does this have to do with his decision making?

If your trying to correlate his decision making to losses, you're reaching. The only game that his decision making was one of the biggest factors to losing the game was the MCB in '10. Otherwise, he's played well considering he had no running game last year or any Pass Blocking the year before.

so you think bray played well in the ky game? what about how he played in the ga game last year? i dont remember him lighting anybody up that had a winning record.

 

[AF_VOL]

so youre saying the only way bray can win is if he is surrounded by first round draft picks? good luck with that.

Ya! That's exactly what i meant...You may need to work on your reading comprehension.

 

[Kurtastrophe]

i dont remember him lighting anybody up that had a winning record.

Cincinnati. Just saying.

 

[sjt18]

Look at their respective careers. O'Brien had a winning record at his previous job, including 8 straight bowl appearances. O'Brien is the better coach by a mile

You are presented with two diamonds. One in an open box and one in a closed box. One you can observe and evaluate. One you only know as a diamond in a box.

Which one is better?

For good or ill, O'Brien is by far a more known commodity. He's "proven". Dooley is still an unknown. He has never coached a "normal" team. This fall is his first chance.

FWIW, O'Brien was available when Kiffin was hired. He was available and probably at a similar price tag when Dooley was hired. He was available when Muschamp, Chizk, Petrino, Phillips, Freeze, John L Smith, Mullen,....

None of these AD's pursued him.

I actually respect what the guy did at BC. He has made NCSU better. But there has to be a reason he isn't getting a call from top tier programs.

PS- he made a bunch of "hot seat" lists before last season. Just more food for thought.

 

[Orange Blazer]

Actually, it's very close. Just because Watkins isn't a Vol doesn't mean you should discount him. Dude is a baller. His freshman season was much better than either JH or DR's freshman campaigns. And predicting NFL careers isn't very easy.

You can't compare their freshman seasons. Dr and jh had experienced receivers to play behind. Watkins was it at Clemson.

 

[sjt18]

Dooley was the HC at NE LaTech Inst for 3 years, where he had an overall losing record of 17-20. This got him promoted to the HC job at UT in the SEC. He has led the UT program to its first ever 2 consecutive losing seasons mark, has an overall losing record of 11-14 at UT (4-12 in the SEC) and to be honest, this year won't be any better after the defection of 7 assistants. He was not, is not and never will be ready for a job of the magnitude of UT. He has been given everything the easy way in his life. O'brien earned his place in the coaching ranks, and 108 wins and 11 bowls later, you cannot compare Dooley with O'brien. Get serious.:loco:

Compa

"Yo"?

O'Brien is more proven. He has been competitive in the ACC... largely during a period when the ACC ranged from not very good to flat out horrible.

Dooley took over one of the most hapless programs in college football in LT. By almost every account, he made their program better. He took over UT at its lowest point in at least 30 years. The roster was almost completely void of quality, depth, and experience.

He may not be a good coach. However I wouldn't judge your ability to fix a car before you had a chance to gather your tools. You might be a great mechanic. You may know nothing at all... but I can't judge that until you have the right tools. I personally have an ethical aversion to judging people before giving them a reasonable chance.

 

[sjt18]

wow std18 got owned again, dont worry buddy he cant help but jump on dooleys nuts any time somebody isnt talking him up as a great coach, hes #1 dooley cheerleader around here.

Nope. I jump on guys who pre-judge. I'd do it if O'Brien were the UT coach... or anyone else for that matter. Dooley inherited a train wreck to try to clean up. The clean up is done. If he can coach then he should make some noise this year.

Just because I don't make idiotic assumptions... like others:whistling:... doesn't mean I'm a cheerleader.

I have YET to say he's a good, much less great, coach. Again, it is moronic to make definitive conclusions before you have anything more than assumptions to go on. When he takes a "good" roster and proves himself to be a bad coach... I will be more than happy to say he should go. Until then... I'll wait for the objective proof.

 

[King Webbsticles]

Nope. I jump on guys who pre-judge.

In your opinion. In their opinion, he hasn't been pre-judged.

Your opinion doesn't hold any more credence than anyone else's. I don't mind you, sjt18, but sometimes you give off an air of conceit in your posts. Otherwise, you bring out some good topics of discussion.

 

[Kurtastrophe]

In your opinion. In their opinion, he hasn't been pre-judged.

Your opinion doesn't hold any more credence than anyone else's. I don't mind you, sjt18, but sometimes you give off an air of conceit in your posts. Otherwise, you bring out some good topics of discussion.

It is hard to not be conceited when you read some of the posters on this board.

 

[King Webbsticles]

It is hard to not be conceited when you read some of the posters on this board.

Even so. Disagreeing with differing opinions in completely understandable. Giving off the perception that you are the only one with enough life experiences to make you correct is entirely different.

But I agree with your post. And it happens with posters on both sides of the fence.

 

[Ron Swanson]

You can't compare their freshman seasons. Dr and jh had experienced receivers to play behind. Watkins was it at Clemson.

Wrong. Clemson had other options, Watkins was just better than everyone else.

And most folks on this board couldn't wait to get rid of the two senior WR's UT had, now all of a sudden JH and DR didn't have a Watkins type freshman year because better WR's were ahead of them? hahaha

 

[YankeeVol]

You are presented with two diamonds. One in an open box and one in a closed box. One you can observe and evaluate. One you only know as a diamond in a box.

Which one is better?

For good or ill, O'Brien is by far a more known commodity. He's "proven". Dooley is still an unknown. He has never coached a "normal" team. This fall is his first chance.

FWIW, O'Brien was available when Kiffin was hired. He was available and probably at a similar price tag when Dooley was hired. He was available when Muschamp, Chizk, Petrino, Phillips, Freeze, John L Smith, Mullen,....

None of these AD's pursued him.

I actually respect what the guy did at BC. He has made NCSU better. But there has to be a reason he isn't getting a call from top tier programs.

PS- he made a bunch of "hot seat" lists before last season. Just more food for thought.

I'd take O'Brien all day everyday over Dooley. And your analogy doesn't really work. Dooley was a HC before.

 

[Orange Blazer]

Wrong. Clemson had other options, Watkins was just better than everyone else.

And most folks on this board couldn't wait to get rid of the two senior WR's UT had, now all of a sudden JH and DR didn't have a Watkins type freshman year because better WR's were ahead of them? hahaha

What upperclassman WR at Clemson was as good as D. Moore? Ill hang up and listen.

 

[StoVol]

You'd think Watkins got a lot more snaps and thus more opportunities, but I could be wrong about that. Was Clemson playing a young offensive line and a qb last year? that would have some kind of bearing on freshman production you'd think

 

[Ron Swanson]

What upperclassman WR at Clemson was as good as D. Moore? Ill hang up and listen.

DeAndre Hopkins is probably as good as Moore or better but he was only a sophomore. You're right that Clemson didn't have much for senior WR's, although they had a pretty good junior TE, but that's not really the point. I quoted a guy who said JH and DR were much better than Watkins and "it wasn't close" and they would be better pros. You believe that to be true?

 

[StoVol]

Depends on if he follows the Jansen Jackson marijuana route to the nfl. He looked like a first rounder after his freshman year

 

[Orange Blazer]

DeAndre Hopkins is probably as good as Moore or better but he was only a sophomore. You're right that Clemson didn't have much for senior WR's, although they had a pretty good junior TE, but that's not really the point. I quoted a guy who said JH and DR were much better than Watkins and "it wasn't close" and they would be better pros. You believe that to be true?

I believe its to early to tell.

 

[Ron Swanson]

I believe its to early to tell.

Exactly.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Yo, O'brien has been a HC for 10 years at BC, with 8winning seasons and 8 straight bowls, where his teams went 7-1 in Bowls and 75-45 overall. He had previously been an asst. under George Walsh at UVA for 15 years, earning his stripes. Prior to that he served 9 years in the Marines after graduating from Annapolis.

At NCSU, O'Brien is 33-30 in 5 years with 3 bowl appearances and a 2-1 bowl record. His overall career coaching record is 108-75.

Dooley was the HC at NE LaTech Inst for 3 years, where he had an overall losing record of 17-20. This got him promoted to the HC job at UT in the SEC. He has led the UT program to its first ever 2 consecutive losing seasons mark, has an overall losing record of 11-14 at UT (4-12 in the SEC) and to be honest, this year won't be any better after the defection of 7 assistants. He was not, is not and never will be ready for a job of the magnitude of UT. He has been given everything the easy way in his life. O'brien earned his place in the coaching ranks, and 108 wins and 11 bowls later, you cannot compare Dooley with O'brien. Get serious.:loco:

Compa

You see, it's right here that you gave away the high ground. And you were doing so well...

 

[Orange_Crush]

Yo, O'brien has been a HC for 10 years at BC, with 8winning seasons and 8 straight bowls, where his teams went 7-1 in Bowls and 75-45 overall. He had previously been an asst. under George Walsh at UVA for 15 years, earning his stripes. Prior to that he served 9 years in the Marines after graduating from Annapolis.

At NCSU, O'Brien is 33-30 in 5 years with 3 bowl appearances and a 2-1 bowl record. His overall career coaching record is 108-75.

Dooley was the HC at NE LaTech Inst for 3 years, where he had an overall losing record of 17-20. This got him promoted to the HC job at UT in the SEC. He has led the UT program to its first ever 2 consecutive losing seasons mark, has an overall losing record of 11-14 at UT (4-12 in the SEC) and to be honest, this year won't be any better after the defection of 7 assistants. He was not, is not and never will be ready for a job of the magnitude of UT. He has been given everything the easy way in his life. O'brien earned his place in the coaching ranks, and 108 wins and 11 bowls later, you cannot compare Dooley with O'brien. Get serious.:loco:

Compa

In your opinion. In their opinion, he hasn't been pre-judged.

Your opinion doesn't hold any more credence than anyone else's. I don't mind you, sjt18, but sometimes you give off an air of conceit in your posts. Otherwise, you bring out some good topics of discussion.

Um...? Opinion? Definitive statements that predict future events is not "pre-judging"?

lol

Did I mention...

lol!

 

[ob79]

I'm as on the fence about DD as I have ever been but I refuse to definitively declare him a complete bust of a HC for a multitude of reasons, most of which stj18 stated. However, I will say that the evidence against him is all but damning.

1. YES, he had a losing record at La Tech--big deal, he also won Louisiana Coach of the year his 2nd year after taking them to their first bowl game win since 1977.

2. YES, he has a losing record at UT...a somewhat big deal, but he took over what has been described as a "dumpster fire" of a roster. I give him more latitude for this one reason more than any other.

3. YES, he lost to Kentucky. I'm not defending that. He deserves the criticism. You CANNOT lose to UK.

All in all, there is more evidence to condemn than condone but it's not enough to make up my mind completely.

He has this year, more specifically...the Florida game--even more specifically the NCSU game, though I expect to win that one. If we don't beat NCSU, its not the end of the road but it's definitely not starting out on the right foot and makes things exponentially harder. Mark Richt was thought to be all but fired after starting 0-2 last year then he went on a tear. It's not impossible that we do that this year, though highly unlikely.

I'm looking for 8 regular season wins. I can't see past 8, not now anyway. It's possible but until I'm convinced that DD can coach his way into a Win, that's my ceiling.