How in the world..

[Volnissniss]

In your travels I invite you to get away from the tourist areas.

So b/c I visit tourist areas AND MINGLE WITH LOCALS my opinion is less than accurate, is that what you are saying? Are you suggesting I go talk to people in more dangerous or rural parts of cities and risk my life just to get a different viewpoint?

Great idea! :crazy:

 

[615 Vol]

It makes fun of both sides, as does the Daily Show. However, both of those shows make fun of one side more than the other. There are entire episodes that characterize Republicans as evil. There are occasional scenes that may poke some good, light-hearted fun at liberals.

Is Rupert Murdoch also over the Fox channel? I know the guy owns Fox News and assume they are under the same brand. I can't imagine he would be too thrilled about a show on his network doing that.

 

[jamesd1628]

I never realized that actually understanding the plight of African-Americans meant that I hated America or blamed the system that is America.

Truth is, there have been a number of legislative actions that have been severely detrimental to African-Americans over the past 200 years. To deny that is ignorance and jingoism...not patriotism.

As for your point about great civilizations...Greece, Babylon, Persia, and China all sold members of their own race into slavery. These slaves were often brutally beaten, initially. However, if you are going to try to convince me that the Africans who sold the slaves to the Americans and Europeans thought that they were selling generations into bondage, then you might as well save your breath. I am not buying what you are selling.

Also, breathing does not fit my definition of life. So, if you want to pat yourself on the back because we extended the biological life of the Africans, go for it. I place a lot more value on the soul and spirit, and the slave trade most certainly crushed that early and often.

Your previous post implied that, if not for America buying all those slaves from western Africa, the region may well have developed into something better than what it is today. That is blaming America, plain and simple.

Why is it so difficult to admit that the descendants of African slaves brought to America are better off than they would be if those slaves hadn't been brought to America? Does that make one racist? I'm not saying slavery was okay; it wasn't. But in hindsight, the descendants of those slaves are better off, period. And it's not America's fault that western Africa is what is.

Oh, and now you're comparing Greece, Babylon, Persia and China to western Africa? Your inability to draw a rational analogy is staggering.

 

[615 Vol]

I'd rather be a Republican nut job than a Democrat with no nuts and no job.

Nice play on words, get it, nut job is turned into no nuts, no job. :lol:

 

[rbroyles]

So b/c I visit tourist areas AND MINGLE WITH LOCALS my opinion is less than accurate, is that what you are saying? Are you suggesting I go talk to people in more dangerous or rural parts of cities and risk my life just to get a different viewpoint?

Great idea! :crazy:

It depends on where you are. I almost always go wanderiing off the beaten trail, but have gotten in a few spots I wouldn't go back nor advise a lady to go. In the Dominican Republic, a group of us decided to leave the resort compound, and should have paid more attention that the security guards had submachine guns! There was a reason, we were threatened by a gang who were trying to intimidate us into "contributing" to their cause. Cause we had more money than they did. We were lucky a Police car came up and ran them off, and all but ordered us back to the resort, not needed, we were back asap.

I lived in the north for 12 years, and I ran into way more racism there than I ever did or have in NE Tenn. It's a little more hidden, but it's there. It was like since I was from the South, it was ok to open up to me as I surely agreed with them in their minds. I replied something along the lines of I don't have racial problems where I lived, I get along fine, too bad you don't.

 

[hndog609]

However, if you are going to try to convince me that the Africans who sold the slaves to the Americans and Europeans thought that they were selling generations into bondage, then you might as well save your breath. I am not buying what you are selling.

I've been staying out of this since there's only going to be more racial garbage as this election goes on but this pulled me out from under my rock. I gotta ask, just what, in your opinion, what were those Africans selling those slaves to those Americans and Europeans thinking?

 

[rbroyles]

I've been staying out of this since there's only going to be more racial garbage as this election goes on but this pulled me out from under my rock. I gotta ask, just what, in your opinion, what were those Africans selling those slaves to those Americans and Europeans thinking?

Strictly of themselves.

 

[droski]

Is Rupert Murdoch also over the Fox channel? I know the guy owns Fox News and assume they are under the same brand. I can't imagine he would be too thrilled about a show on his network doing that.

the show makes gobs of money just like foxnews. that is all murdoch cares about. i love the simpsons, but anyone not seeing a liberal slant just ain't looking.

 

[BigPapaVol]

However, if you are going to try to convince me that the Africans who sold the slaves to the Americans and Europeans thought that they were selling generations into bondage, then you might as well save your breath. I am not buying what you are selling.

We're talking about scum of the earth style people, who earnestly believed they were trading only those beneath them and trying to ascribe to them some sort of concern for future generations. I suspect that if they had known that multiple generations would come to be enslaved, they would have charged more.

 

[hndog609]

We're talking about scum of the earth style people, who earnestly believed they were trading only those beneath them and trying to ascribe to them some sort of concern for future generations. I suspect that if they had known that multiple generations would come to be enslaved, they would have charged more.

Yeah, that's more along the line that I was thinking when I asked the question.

 

[jamesd1628]

However, if you are going to try to convince me that the Africans who sold the slaves to the Americans and Europeans thought that they were selling generations into bondage, then you might as well save your breath. I am not buying what you are selling.

Well, you are probably right, they probably didn't think they were selling generations. They more likely thought they were selling someone who would die a horrible death in some brutal slave camp, which is exactly what happened to the vast majority of the slaves that went anywhere except North America. As I previously noted, slaves sent to North America were the only ones that actually lived, thrived, reproduced and, eventually, became a huge, important and successful part of their surroundings. I suppose America should be blamed for allowing this to happen rather than treating the slaves so horribly that they all died under the work conditions.

 

[therealUT]

Your previous post implied that, if not for America buying all those slaves from western Africa, the region may well have developed into something better than what it is today. That is blaming America, plain and simple.

Why is it so difficult to admit that the descendants of African slaves brought to America are better off than they would be if those slaves hadn't been brought to America? Does that make one racist? I'm not saying slavery was okay; it wasn't. But in hindsight, the descendants of those slaves are better off, period. And it's not America's fault that western Africa is what is.

Oh, and now you're comparing Greece, Babylon, Persia and China to western Africa? Your inability to draw a rational analogy is staggering.

Considering that America was largely out of the African Slave Trade by 1786 (you do know the Constitution was not even ratified until 1789, right?), I would say that I was not blaming America. Also, America was only ever responsible for importing, at most, 5% of all slaves exported from Africa (Brazil imported over 35%.)

However, I will not ever agree with anyone who says that African-Americans are better off because their ancestors were sold into bondage.

Finally, your point about my inability to draw a rational analogy. In the future, don't throw around maxims of "great civilizations" so loosely...

 

[BigPapaVol]

However, I will not ever agree with anyone who says that African-Americans are better off because their ancestors were sold into bondage.

I would agree with this. I think the point is that African-Americans are better off today, regardless of their plight in America, than are modern Africans. That's the only way I can see what he's trying to say. Otherwise, he's just lost, since there is no slavery justification.

 

[jamesd1628]

I would agree with this. I think the point is that African-Americans are better off today, regardless of their plight in America, than are modern Africans. That's the only way I can see what he's trying to say. Otherwise, he's just lost, since there is no slavery justification.

You guys are afraid to say it because you think it makes you a racist. The liberal media has you so beaten down that you don't even see it.

Simple question: Would the average black person in America, who we can assume is the descendant of a slave, be better off where he/she is or better off if his/her ancestor had never been sold into slavery? The answer is obvious. Admitting that answer does not make you a racist, and it does not justify slavery. It is simply a historical truth. Don't let the liberals politicize the truth.

 

[615 Vol]

You guys are afraid to say it because you think it makes you a racist. The liberal media has you so beaten down that you don't even see it.
Simple question: Would the average black person in America, who we can assume is the descendant of a slave, be better off where he/she is or better off if his/her ancestor had never been sold into slavery? The answer is obvious. Admitting that answer does not make you a racist, and it does not justify slavery. It is simply a historical truth. Don't let the liberals politicize the truth.

Most people on here have pointed out the liberal media (even on the Simpsons) so if they are so alert to the liberal slant than why do you think they've fallen for liberal media making them think they are racist?

Also, how can the answer be "obvious" that black people are better off because of slavery? How will we ever know what might have been?

 

[jamesd1628]

Most people on here have pointed out the liberal media (even on the Simpsons) so if they are so alert to the liberal slant than why do you think they've fallen for liberal media making them think they are racist?

Also, how can the answer be "obvious" that black people are better off because of slavery? How will we ever know what might have been?

It's pretty obvious that the average black person in America is better off than the average black person in sub-Saharan west Africa.

As for the media/racist issue, just looking at the posts on here, not everyone can see (or admit to) the liberal slant in a lot of things, and may not be able to recognize how it has influenced them.

 

[BigPapaVol]

You guys are afraid to say it because you think it makes you a racist. The liberal media has you so beaten down that you don't even see it.

Simple question: Would the average black person in America, who we can assume is the descendant of a slave, be better off where he/she is or better off if his/her ancestor had never been sold into slavery? The answer is obvious. Admitting that answer does not make you a racist, and it does not justify slavery. It is simply a historical truth. Don't let the liberals politicize the truth.

I'd dare submit that most on here would call you silly if you're trying to imply that I am afraid to say anything.

Equally absurd is the notion that I buy anything from the liberal media or to pretend that I think you're comment is off base because I subscribe to the media point of view. You're comment is off base because, well, it's off base.

I tried to say they're better off as Americans than as Africans, but I'm not drawing the connection to slavery as you are. Slavery is not the sole reason that there are African Americans.

 

[jamesd1628]

I tried to say they're better off as Americans than as Africans, but I'm not drawing the connection to slavery as you are.

It's not necessary to draw or not draw a connection to slavery because historically and factually the connection is there. The reason that the descendents of slaves are in this country is because of slavery. You can't separate the two just because you are trying to be politically correct (which you are, by the way).

Slavery is not the sole reason that there are African Americans.

The only blacks this discussion is concerned with are the ones descended from slavery. The others are irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[BigPapaVol]

It's not necessary to draw or not draw a connection to slavery because historically and factually the connection is there. The reason that the descendents of slaves are in this country is because of slavery. You can't separate the two just because you are trying to be politically correct (which you are, by the way).

I have never in my life tried to be politically correct and am very unlikely to ever try.

I understand your if.....then logic, but you started this by saying that modern black people are better off because their ancestors were sold into slavery and brought to America. I'm saying everyone is better off as an American, regardless of reason for being here, than they are as anything else. That's my jingoistic American coming out, not my politically correct anything.

Regardless of all that, your point seems to me a very pathetic rationalization of slavery or means to make yourself feel better about it.

 

[emainvol]

While we talk about a wide variety of subjects here, you can only take so much away from it. You know exactly zero about my personal experience and other reasons for my stances.

OMG, you mean you develop your opinions from your life and your experiences too? What a great idea, I wish I would of thought about that...

See this is what I am talking about. Never once did I question your experiences, only pulled from mine. Never once did I even imply that you were a racist, only challenged your statements. I am not attacking you, and if you think I am, you should really chill out.

 

[emainvol]

nm

 

[jamesd1628]

I have never in my life tried to be politically correct and am very unlikely to ever try.

I understand your if.....then logic, but you started this by saying that modern black people are better off because their ancestors were sold into slavery and brought to America. I'm saying everyone is better off as an American, regardless of reason for being here, than they are as anything else. That's my jingoistic American coming out, not my politically correct anything.

Regardless of all that, your point seems to me a very pathetic rationalization of slavery or means to make yourself feel better about it.

Slavery requires no rationalization. It is a historical fact, it happened, and none of us alive today had anything to do with it. What do I need to rationalize or make myself feel better about? It seems to me that you are the one afraid to admit that it happened. You will admit that the descendants of slaves are better off here than in Africa, but you won't acknowledge that they are here because of slavery. You're in denial.

 

[therealUT]

Slavery requires no rationalization. It is a historical fact, it happened, and none of us alive today had anything to do with it. What do I need to rationalize or make myself feel better about? It seems to me that you are the one afraid to admit that it happened. You will admit that the descendants of slaves are better off here than in African, but you won't acknowledge that they are here because of slavery. You're in denial.

No. You are more than implying that they benefitted from slavery. There is absolutely no way to prove that. Who knows what could have become of Sub-Saharan Africa had their youth not been sold into bondage and shipped away. Maybe it would be as it is today. Maybe not. However, you argue as if it is a fact that they would have continued living in the stone ages, regardless. Hence, you are justifying slavery.

 

[jamesd1628]

No. You are more than implying that they benefitted from slavery. There is absolutely no way to prove that. Who knows what could have become of Sub-Saharan Africa had their youth not been sold into bondage and shipped away. Maybe it would be as it is today. Maybe not. However, you argue as if it is a fact that they would have continued living in the stone ages, regardless. Hence, you are justifying slavery.

You're wrong, I'm not implying that modern-day American blacks benefitted from slavery, I'm outright saying it: they benefited from slavery. A few posts ago, you yourself acknowledged that the number of slaves sold in North America was very small compared to the slave trade overall. That means that eliminating the slave trade to North America would have had virtually no effect on what has happened to Africa as a result of slave trade. I'm not making a big leap here, people. Again, you are just afraid to admit the truth because you are afraid it makes you a racist.

 

[emainvol]

No. You are more than implying that they benefitted from slavery. There is absolutely no way to prove that. Who knows what could have become of Sub-Saharan Africa had their youth not been sold into bondage and shipped away. Maybe it would be as it is today. Maybe not. However, you argue as if it is a fact that they would have continued living in the stone ages, regardless. Hence, you are justifying slavery.

I already tried that, it's no use.