How to Regulate NIL

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

There were Supreme Court cases where players said otherwise - did they lie about it?

Citations?

I'll not post it again but YouTube or Google "Joe Namath illegal money" and watch. Joe was recruited in 1961-62.

The NCAA spent decades and decades catching and punishing programs, including UT, for paying players. We avoided paying Pruitt's buyout because he paid players.

You've got to have your head deep in the sand to suggest elite players weren't being routinely paid in football and basketball.

 

[volfan102455]

Most of you are equating NIL to your job. That is not a good comparison.

NIL is equivalent to any public person (aka an actor, actress, singer, public official, etc.) allowing their name and image to be used for by another company to make money. It is like having Michael Jackson appear in the Pepsi commercials - he was not an employee of Pepsi but was reimbursed for them using his image to promote their product. He was paid per whatever contract he had with Pepsi to use his name and image. The record label he was associated with was irrelevant to this. Typically for a person to be successful in this type of activity, they must be well known to the public such that their image can influence folks to purchase whatever is being sold.

An employee works for the company and their work benefits the company, not them individually. Within the structure of a company, there are various levels of jobs that one can do and there is a progression up the ladder if you will that dictates what your salary may be. If an employee quits or is fired, they no longer get any benefits from their employer.

A student athlete who is on scholarship signs an agreement to play for said school in exchange for a free education in the subject of their choice. They also get free training, free advertisement of their skills, free advice / direction on how to present themselves in public, etc. If the student athlete quits or transfers, he/she no longer gets the educational benefits.

All of these are different in some important way. But all do have a net value for the individual.

I won't pretend to know what the answers are, but I do know that NIL if not controlled will destroy college sports. Money will be diverted there, facility upgrades will not occur, some opportunities in some sports will disappear, other athletes will not be afforded the opportunity of a free education, egos will get in the way, players that see their worth dwindle will be playing for their own recognition verses playing for their team. Football, for most universities is what funds all sports - it will also in the end be what destroys college sports - all of them.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

You can’t regulate how much someone is capable of earning, however you can regulate who can play. The monetary limits could be placed on the schools as to how much someone can make and still play. If they don’t play on the field their value goes down.

Nope. That's still a violation of the federal laws against restraint of trade.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I see no separation from Collectives and NIL money as things are now. Everyone knows you can’t put a cap on NIL’s it’s against the law. Doubt it will ever happen but collectives need to go and the players become employees of the university, Don’t need a middle man.

That's still conflating two different things.
Pay for play (employment) is a very different and separate thing from pay for NIL. (Endorsements)

The collectives are legal business entities.
Collectives fund a great deal of NIL money, and there is no good real reason for them to stop.

As long as they're making a profitable return on investment, they are pretty much here to stay.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Most of you are equating NIL to your job. That is not a good comparison.

NIL is equivalent to any public person (aka an actor, actress, singer, public official, etc.) allowing their name and image to be used for by another company to make money. It is like having Michael Jackson appear in the Pepsi commercials - he was not an employee of Pepsi but was reimbursed for them using his image to promote their product. He was paid per whatever contract he had with Pepsi to use his name and image. The record label he was associated with was irrelevant to this. Typically for a person to be successful in this type of activity, they must be well known to the public such that their image can influence folks to purchase whatever is being sold.

An employee works for the company and their work benefits the company, not them individually. Within the structure of a company, there are various levels of jobs that one can do and there is a progression up the ladder if you will that dictates what your salary may be. If an employee quits or is fired, they no longer get any benefits from their employer.

A student athlete who is on scholarship signs an agreement to play for said school in exchange for a free education in the subject of their choice. They also get free training, free advertisement of their skills, free advice / direction on how to present themselves in public, etc. If the student athlete quits or transfers, he/she no longer gets the educational benefits.

All of these are different in some important way. But all do have a net value for the individual.

I won't pretend to know what the answers are, but I do know that NIL if not controlled will destroy college sports. Money will be diverted there, facility upgrades will not occur, some opportunities in some sports will disappear, other athletes will not be afforded the opportunity of a free education, egos will get in the way, players that see their worth dwindle will be playing for their own recognition verses playing for their team. Football, for most universities is what funds all sports - it will also in the end be what destroys college sports - all of them.

It is illegal under federal law for anyone or any entity to "control" NIL funding by private entities.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

At some point the courts will have to better define NIL verses salary from a company. NIL is the ability for a person to profit off their name, image and likeliness. That is not a salary. A "salary" is what your employer pays you to do something that benefits them.

If players become "employees" their "salary" would be set based on their performance on the field. Coaches pay is considered a "salary" because they are paid to do a specific job and do it well. Same is true for NFL. If you don't perform you get paid less or FIRED.

The NCAA should as the governing body that speaks to recruiting and transfer rules be able to set rules that dictate what is allowed and what isn't.

If NIL was working as expected, there would be no need for an athlete to ever transfer from one school to another. They may want to connect to a different collective that can provide them with a better NIL but they should not have to "change schools" for that to happen. The fact that they do is a clear indication that NIL is related to the school and is being used for recruiting.

Imo the tp only needs to be opened after all the college games have been played, including playoffs and bowl games. Change the date of signing day to until the last signing day now, just one signing day, and all would coincide with the tp. On the Nil do nothing the market will work itself out. Nil is here to stay, just let the market control this.

Multiple signing days are here to stay.
You can't wait until the spring semester has already started before letting early high school graduates enroll.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Not one professional organized sport has no limit on pay. It is financially impossible to be able to maintain a wide open non regulated market.

Don’t penalize the player, penalize the state funded school. Let the player make as much as wants and can, just limit how much the organization can put on the field at one time. This isn’t limiting how much a player can make, just how much talent he is surrounded with. Less playing time less value.

Or if you want to protect the athlete more, make the school insure said players salary, I’m sure the insurance companies would find ways to limit the amount on the field

Not one professional sport has a limit on their players' NIL money.

 

[cgrish]

Multiple signing days are here to stay.
You can't wait until the spring semester has already started before letting early high school graduates enroll.

l agree multiple signing days are probably here to stay, but it could fix the tp problem with one signing week or two after the season is finished. And the transfer portal going on at the same time.

 

[BigALWiLson]

Citations?

I'll not post it again but YouTube or Google "Joe Namath illegal money" and watch. Joe was recruited in 1961-62.

The NCAA spent decades and decades catching and punishing programs, including UT, for paying players. We avoided paying Pruitt's buyout because he paid players.

You've got to have your head deep in the sand to suggest elite players weren't being routinely paid in football and basketball.

Players have been paid for a long ass time. Further back then I started watching in the 80s. It was apparent. The 85 Miami team comes to mind. Bo Jackson you are crazy as hell if you think he didn't get paid.

 

[BigALWiLson]

Players have been paid for a long ass time. Further back then I started watching in the 80s. It was apparent. The 85 Miami team comes to mind. Bo Jackson you are crazy as hell if you think he didn't get paid.

Probably even further back then that honestly

 

[BigALWiLson]

Dude, they don't get it. I mean at all. It's just plain as day to me and you but for some people, they really think there is a way to regulate a citizen's right to earn. It's dumb.

We know about Dickerson, my guess is Herschel Walker got paid too. Even Archie I could see getting money

 

[VolArmy74]

NIL dollars can't be controlled or regulated by forces other than the market itself. If Congress passed a law against it, it would be overturned. It would be like the PGA or NBA telling Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan how much they could earn from Nike and trying to limit it. It's illegal and anti-American.

A huge hurdle that would never remotely pass muster would be, do you limit other student body members to how much NIL they can earn? Imagine some teen idol decides to attend Tennessee, could someone say "hey, you're going to Tennessee, you can't sign that 40 million dollar contract with McDonalds to do commercials." It's completely ridiculous to even think an institution could or would have any business doing so.

 

[feathersax]

This is where it will end up--or something similar.

Sadly, I agree. And with that I'm done with it.

 

[njvols]

It is illegal to regulate NIL under the Sherman Antitrust Act.

I think the best initial changes are to put guardrails up on transfer rules so that coaches can appropriately fill holes in their rosters, coordinating w/ HS signing class. Maybe have one window from end of regular season to 1-2 weeks after championship game, which is before final national signing day, and maybe another window after Spring practice...maybe May thru July 1. Not sure if legal, but I'd like to see a one time no strings transfer, and if there's a second transfer, the player has to either forfeit a year of eligibility to transfer immediately, or choose to sit out a year, unless there is a head coach change, in which case, all players eligible.

 

[strkr]

The supreme court’s ruling has made it impossible to regulate Nil money as far as limits or caps. The only to regulate it now is (sadly) through the legislature in congress. That way it will be a law not a rule by the NCAA. The problem is with the title 9 and the Equality push. It will have equal with the boys and girls. This is just for the collectives that the school controls somewhat. Boosters will then have to step in to cover the stars of the programs. I’m afraid we are going down a path where college education is separated from sport, if this happens the 97 or so that don’t make the NFL will lose out on not getting the edu or the diploma that they are now capable of getting.

I do not think Congress should have anything to do with it- they can't get along with each other as it is. Anytime the government gets involved in anything they screw it up.

 

[njvols]

NIL dollars can't be controlled or regulated by forces other than the market itself. If Congress passed a law against it, it would be overturned. It would be like the PGA or NBA telling Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan how much they could earn from Nike and trying to limit it. It's illegal and anti-American.

A huge hurdle that would never remotely pass muster would be, do you limit other student body members to how much NIL they can earn? Imagine some teen idol decides to attend Tennessee, could someone say "hey, you're going to Tennessee, you can't sign that 40 million dollar contract with McDonalds to do commercials." It's completely ridiculous to even think an institution could or would have any business doing so.

I agree. Maybe slippery slope, but what if NCAA pivoted and became a "clearinghouse", where they vet the authenticity/legality of an NIL deal (optional for players). Seems one problem is that players are flying blind, w/ no real legal knowledge of contracts or obligations of them...or validity. Am sure some of them are smoke and mirrors. Slippery slope comes in where they couldn't say "one deal is better than another", but if they were able to say a deal passes the legality sniff test, then that could be helpful for players, while being able to see and keep eye on collectives and their respective colleges. In this way, NCAA is serving the players who keeps the CFB brand vibrant, while being in the mix and keeping the collectives playing within the rules, insuring separation from the colleges they are representing.

 

[EZE]

Three words: collective bargaining agreement. This is where we are heading, IMHO. This will take care of compensation, transfer portal issues and many problems beyond NIL. NIL is a separate issue and there will never be any cap on what a player can earn from NIL.

Under the Supreme Court ruling, this is the only way. Problem is that it’s hard for players to unionize and collectively bargain when their eligibility is only four years.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Under the Supreme Court ruling, this is the only way. Problem is that it’s hard for players to unionize and collectively bargain when their eligibility is only four years.

I think there's an argument for the NBA and NFL unions to step in with a "college membership" to manage the overall technical workings. You have unions in place and stable in pro leagues, so they could maintain the stability.

Obviously, this all inches toward NFL-lite, pro status, and LOTS of changes in how I personally look at college ball.

As for reining in transfers, 9 or 10 states and Dept of Justice are suing the NCAA over the "sit out after a transfer" rule. Without collective bargaining and essentially pro status, transfers aren't going to be limited.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

How to regulate the NIL? Easy, just get out of the way and let capitalism do what it does. That the mantra of its advocates, isn't it?

 

[DuckinVol]

If NIL was working as expected, there would be no need for an athlete to ever transfer from one school to another. They may want to connect to a different collective that can provide them with a better NIL but they should not have to "change schools" for that to happen. The fact that they do is a clear indication that NIL is related to the school and is being used for recruiting.

NIL in sports is often linked to local businesses. Anyone who didn’t expect it to often be linked to where someone played is a fool. Why would a car dealership, restaurant or any other business in Knoxville pay an athlete in Oklahoma.

 

[Visiting Dawg]

As I understand it, the players' unions agreed to a salary cap. So until there is a players' union in the colleges there can't be a salary cap. Someone pointed out on sports talk that state employees in South Carolina can't unionize. They would have to be paid by the SEC or NCAA (or the collective?) to be able to unionize.

The collectives could offer multi-year contracts to limit the transfers.

What a lot of folks don't realize is the current NCAA schollie contract is a one yr agreement. Iows, no coach is bound to honor the second yr of the contract but for yrs the NCAA, the coaches, the ADs and admin as well as the univ presidents that control the NCAA were perfectly fine with them being able to yank schollies from a kid as well as punishing him unless he transferred down a division. Simply stated, the current scholarship agreement is something NO lawyer would agree to if given the power to negotiate on behalf of the players.

I'm not sure how you arrive at collective bargaining for prospective college kids but collective bargaining or a anti trust exemption seems to be the only remedy that will satisfy the courts and allow for restrictions on unfettered transfers.

 

[GAVol]

Not one professional organized sport has no limit on pay.

MLB says hi.

 

[Visiting Dawg]

A players union has zero power or ability to regulate endorsements or what private sponsors pay for them.

Couldn't players cede their rights under a union agreement and allow the union to negotiate the NIL deals? There does appear to be a lot of issues with a national unionization plan in 50 states regarding closed shops and right to work states as well as an individual's personal rights. However, short of congress actually passing an anti trust exemption that gets it right, I'm not sure there is a solution that has any teeth.

 

[Visiting Dawg]

Not one professional organized sport has no limit on pay. It is financially impossible to be able to maintain a wide open non regulated market.

Don’t penalize the player, penalize the state funded school. Let the player make as much as wants and can, just limit how much the organization can put on the field at one time. This isn’t limiting how much a player can make, just how much talent he is surrounded with. Less playing time less value.

Or if you want to protect the athlete more, make the school insure said players salary, I’m sure the insurance companies would find ways to limit the amount on the field

The NFL literally has a salary cap and a structured salary schedule for players in their first 4 to 5 yrs in the league.

 

[B81]

The major problem with the current system is the NCAA. They are trying to implement rules, and all their rules restrict trade and violate federal law. Once the NCAA goes away the market will self correct, as it already basically has. There was an article posted on Volnation a few weeks back anonymously asking the under armor game participants if NIL had a major impact on the school they chose. Most said that all the NIL deals they were offered were very close, and they chose a school based on fit. NIL played a roll, but since the numbers were so close it wasn’t the primary driver. As an example, I am sure Nico was offered similar deals from his top 3 schools. He chose to play for Huep. Another example was texas a&ms early NIL class. They have not been successful on the field, so some hit the portal. A free market where kids are getting paid above board is lightyears better than the under the table shaddy stuff we used to have.

Treat a kid well and pay him his value and he won’t transfer.