How to Regulate NIL

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Even if you could put a salary cap on the collective, it would be impossible to enforce, or very difficult at any rate.

In spite of the court ruling, I think there likely is a way to change transfer rules. I get that there is an aspect of limiting the athletes rights, but IMO it should be balanced by the academic implications of transferring 3-4 times.

I know the counter argument that academics are already a joke with all the money floating around. The retort to that, is are the Universities academic institutions or minor league sports teams? Are they allowed to regulate their own academics or not? Does Congress or the courts force Universities to act against their academic mission?

If the Universities wanted to, they could make a stand on that issue. I suspect they do not want to. The academics of a relatively handful of athletes, some or many of which are getting paid well, vs. the millions the Universities make, is no contest I suspect.

I appreciate the academic argument but are you going to stop ALL students from transferring multiple times too?

The schools are going to have to PROVE academic harm from multiple transfers, not just imply it could occur. You're talking about an individual's rights to control their education.

There are academic organizations which monitor transfer credits, major requirements, accreditation of schools, etc and that's understandable. I'm unsure the NCAA is the correct organization to attempt to wade into academics.

Their attempt to go after UNC for fake courses failed because they even said: "We don't have the authority to tell UNC what is a legitimate academic course. We're a sports organization." They merely reported UNC to the academic monitors and walked off.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I'm aware, I was just offering my solution. I think free agency is the greatest threat to college football; there's a reason there are safeguards in place in the NFL.

A solution that violates federal law isn't actually a solution.

 

[TNVOLFN]

A solution that violates federal law isn't actually a solution.

Okay, so blend the collective with recruiting and whatever contract they sign with the collective can stipulate their required participation for a determined amount time. Is that better?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Okay, so blend the collective with recruiting and whatever contract they sign with the collective can stipulate their required participation for a determined amount time. Is that better?

NIL deals are specifically forbidden to be tied to playing at a specific school.

Pay for play with the NIL tied to the recruiting by the school is essentially a pro contract. The NCAA is dead if college athletics is a pro league.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Okay, so blend the collective with recruiting and whatever contract they sign with the collective can stipulate their required participation for a determined amount time. Is that better?

No collective is going to do that. The best players would simply go somewhere else whose collective didn't have that requirement.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

NIL deals are specifically forbidden to be tied to playing at a specific school.

Pay for play with the NIL tied to the recruiting by the school is essentially a pro contract. The NCAA is dead if college athletics is a pro league.

The NCAA NIL rules are a violation of federal Antitrust law.

The NCAA is probably dead either way.
That's a good - err, GREAT thing.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The NCAA NIL rules are a violation of federal Antitrust law.

The NCAA is probably dead either way.
That's a good - err, GREAT thing.

If you like pro football and lots of lesser talented and non revenue sport athletes not getting a chance to play in college, a dead NCAA is the way to accomplish that.

There's no way colleges which lose money on sports can justify paying players nor can a school like UT easily justify paying all athletes.

For some athletes, making the immediate jump from HS to pro ball will be great. For most athletes, missing out on the experience of playing in college won't be a positive thing nor will the general student population get to enjoy their college having teams.

The NCAA DOES SUCK but it's the only thing holding college athletics together. A replacement organization likely cannot be formed which satisfies Sherman.

So yeah, you can dance while it burns but while I'm certain it is going to burn, it's nothing to celebrate for the vast majority of college students.

 

[Revengevol]

Of course they pay taxes on income and I'm sure they're not "OMG!!! You mean people pay taxes in America?!?!?!!" about it like you seem to imply.

You act like college age kids are 4 year olds. Most are Americans and grew up understanding that if you make money, you pay taxes.

What's your problem?

No problem. We shall see.

 

[Revengevol]

The NCAA NIL rules are a violation of federal Antitrust law.

The NCAA is probably dead either way.
That's a good - err, GREAT thing.

Great Pruitt and his crew are FREE!!!! Pruitt will be back coaching defense at Alabama soon.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

If you like pro football and lots of lesser talented and non revenue sport athletes not getting a chance to play in college, a dead NCAA is the way to accomplish that.

There's no way colleges which lose money on sports can justify paying players nor can a school like UT easily justify paying all athletes.

For some athletes, making the immediate jump from HS to pro ball will be great. For most athletes, missing out on the experience of playing in college won't be a positive thing nor will the general student population get to enjoy their college having teams.

The NCAA DOES SUCK but it's the only thing holding college athletics together. A replacement organization likely cannot be formed which satisfies Sherman.

So yeah, you can dance while it burns but while I'm certain it is going to burn, it's nothing to celebrate for the vast majority of college students.

There's an easy way to avoid that.

Start a women's football team to satisfy Title X balance.

Then drop everything other than men's and women's football and basketball as varsity sports. Make them club sports like the UGa and Florida State hockey teams are.

That should make all of the anachrotnistic "amateur athletics" purists happy, simplify the athletic department jobs, and let the universities focus on the sports that actually draw significant fan bases, money, and prestige.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

There's an easy way to avoid that.

Start a women's football team to satisfy Title X balance.

Then drop everything other than men's and women's football and basketball as varsity sports. Make them club sports like the UGa and Florida State hockey teams are.

That should make all of the anachrotnistic "amateur athletics" purists happy, simplify the athletic department jobs, and let the universities focus on the sports that actually draw significant fan bases, money, and prestige.

I'm not convinced a university's mission is to be in the pro sports business, but your idea works to that end. Chasing money and fans IS the way pro sports works AND the way many high revenue schools, including UT, have treated some sports.

I think that was the original error. Some schools moved away from the primary idea of creating a well rounded educational experience with sports being one piece of that and began to focus heavily on having a great fan base, great teams, and great media revenue.

The push for sports success led to illegal player payments and flashier, pro quality facilities and stadiums for recruiting and fans which can only be described as over the top for creating a well rounded educational experience for students.

Now, lots of students who could enjoy an athletic scholarship, an education, and the experience of supporting a "less flashy" sport are likely to lose that when funding dries up for "club sports." With your idea, yeah, UT can have bitching football, basketball, and even baseball teams that draw money and attention, but you'll watch swimming, gymnastics, volleyball suffer because equipment and road trips aren't cheap and that revenue the money sports make won't be available.

So I get it. I do. I love the free market and enterprises taking care of themselves. I'll just hate that young students won't have the chance I had watch more obscure sports supported by the school as an enrichment.

 

[Voltopia]

That should make all of the anachrotnistic "amateur athletics" purists happy, simplify the athletic department jobs, and let the universities focus on the sports that actually draw significant fan bases, money, and prestige.

And why, exactly, should taxpayer-funded public institutions be so completely absorbed by the idea of "fan bases, money, and prestige"? Why should the college mission include operating a professional, commercial enteprise of that nature?

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

And why, exactly, should taxpayer-funded public institutions be so completely absorbed by the idea of "fan bases, money, and prestige"? Why should the college mission include operating a professional, commercial enteprise of that nature?

Given the revenue generated by P4 football, the answer should be self evident.

That's just in direct revenue from ticket sales, concessions, team merch, TV rights, and conference revenue sharing.

Then there's the added value to the community from hotel stays, food and beverage sales, fuel sales, etc.

Those things directly benefit the local economies and keep campuses (mostly) in nice, low crime areas not surrounded by urban blight.

All of those are good things. And...they are all legal.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Given the revenue generated by P4 football, the answer should be self evident.

That's just in direct revenue from ticket sales, concessions, team merch, TV rights, and conference revenue sharing.

Then there's the added value to the community from hotel stays, food and beverage sales, fuel sales, etc.

Those things directly benefit the local economies and keep campuses (mostly) in nice, low crime areas not surrounded by urban blight.

All of those are good things. And...they are all legal.

I think the question is: what's any of that got to do with education? You know, UT is an educational institution.

You've laid out the case for Knoxville benefiting from pro sports, but why does the University of Tennessee, a state supported educational institution, belong in the pro sports business?

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I think the question is: what's any of that got to do with education? You know, UT is an educational institution.

You've laid out the case for Knoxville benefiting from pro sports, but why does the University of Tennessee, a state supported educational institution, belong in the pro sports business?

Do you REALLY not understand the amount of money that sports brings to support the University's academic programs and administration?

Do you REALLY want to see no sports at colleges and universities, decaying sports venues, and taxpayers and tuition having to make up the difference?

No TV network is going to pay mefa bucks to watch a UT professor lecture about biology or an Alabama grad student decant chemicals into beakers or to prepare biology microscope slides.

 

[Voltopia]

Do you REALLY not understand the amount of money that sports brings to support the University's academic programs and administration?

Do you REALLY want to see no sports at colleges and universities, decaying sports venues, and taxpayers and tuition having to make up the difference?

No TV network is going to pay mefa bucks to watch a UT professor lecture about biology or an Alabama grad student decant chemicals into beakers or to prepare biology microscope slides.

I thought all the TV money went right back into the athletics department. What TV dollars go to support academic programs today? Do we use TV money to pay for those biology lectures?

Is this implication that one must have sports to operate a college, because I feel like a lot of the colleges didn't get the memo.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I thought all the TV money went right back into the athletics department. What TV dollars go to support academic programs today? Do we use TV money to pay for those biology lectures?

Is this implication that one must have sports to operate a college, because I feel like a lot of the colleges didn't get the memo.

Athletics department money is part of the schools' budgets.

Life is competitive. The University of Tennessee is heading the way to fight illegal suppression of competition and illegally denying people the right to profit from their own labor.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Do you REALLY not understand the amount of money that sports brings to support the University's academic programs and administration?

Do you REALLY want to see no sports at colleges and universities, decaying sports venues, and taxpayers and tuition having to make up the difference?

No TV network is going to pay mefa bucks to watch a UT professor lecture about biology or an Alabama grad student decant chemicals into beakers or to prepare biology microscope slides.

The Athletic Department funds are separate and with your notion of the revenue sports being pro sports and the other sports being club sports only Neyland, Thompson-Boling, and hopefully newer baseball facilities would be supported.

You seem to want it both ways. Pro sports at UT AND it still connected directly to the schools. You don't seem to grasp that a pro franchise QUICKLY does away with the "student" requirements and eligibility issues via collective bargaining (to again quote Cardele Jones "We ain't come to play school. We come to play ball.")

You end up VERY quickly with pro teams without the student aspect AND without eligibility limits which is essentially minor league sports, ie., guys playing in the minors because they couldn't make the bigs at 30, 35, etc.

Again, what business does UT have being in the pro sports business?

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

The Athletic Department funds are separate and with your notion of the revenue sports being pro sports and the other sports being club sports only Neyland, Thompson-Boling, and hopefully newer baseball facilities would be supported.

You seem to want it both ways. Pro sports at UT AND it still connected directly to the schools. You don't seem to grasp that a pro franchise QUICKLY does away with the "student" requirements and eligibility issues via collective bargaining (to again quote Cardele Jones "We ain't come to play school. We come to play ball.")

You end up VERY quickly with pro teams without the student aspect AND without eligibility limits which is essentially minor league sports, ie., guys playing in the minors because they couldn't make the bigs at 30, 35, etc.

Again, what business does UT have being in the pro sports business?

Pro sports at UT? I said no such thing.
The rest of your reply is a non sequitur.

What part of NIL for endorsements doesn't make the athletes professionals don't you understand?

The schools don't pay NIL money. Ergo, their athletes aren't professional athletes.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I wonder if a union(maybe a branch of the NFLPA) could provide player representation and the ability to agree to limitations that bring some stability AND allow players to get what they are worth, without just arbitrarily violating players' rights.

Not without paying the players, unionizing them, and having a salary cap. That still would have zero effect on NIL.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

l agree multiple signing days are probably here to stay, but it could fix the tp problem with one signing week or two after the season is finished. And the transfer portal going on at the same time.

Two signing periods.

One in Decemebr so kids can enroll for January semester. Second In May that includes kids from spring transfer portal.

Align the portal and HS signing periods.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

NIL deals are specifically forbidden to be tied to playing at a specific school.

Pay for play with the NIL tied to the recruiting by the school is essentially a pro contract. The NCAA is dead if college athletics is a pro league.

Forbidden? By whom? The NCAA? Sorry, federal antitrust law overrides any and all NCAA regulations.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Pro sports at UT? I said no such thing.
The rest of your reply is a non sequitur.

What part of NIL for endorsements doesn't make the athletes professionals don't you understand?

The schools don't pay NIL money. Ergo, their athletes aren't professional athletes.

We're past NIL. The Alston decision laid out clear directions for the next lawsuits to challenge the "student-athlete" model as illegal under Sherman.

You don't get to pick and choose when you apply it. Kavanaugh clearly stated that no other industry could be built on the model the NCAA uses to not compensate players at market value.

Does NIL satisfy that? NO IT DOESN'T. Just because players can earn NIL money DOESN'T mean the NCAA is not responsible to pay market value to the players.

Kavanaugh made it clear that the dang "student athlete" idea is in violation of Antitrust Law.

Then what? You have professional players.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

What a lot of folks don't realize is the current NCAA schollie contract is a one yr agreement. Iows, no coach is bound to honor the second yr of the contract but for yrs the NCAA, the coaches, the ADs and admin as well as the univ presidents that control the NCAA were perfectly fine with them being able to yank schollies from a kid as well as punishing him unless he transferred down a division. Simply stated, the current scholarship agreement is something NO lawyer would agree to if given the power to negotiate on behalf of the players.

I'm not sure how you arrive at collective bargaining for prospective college kids but collective bargaining or a anti trust exemption seems to be the only remedy that will satisfy the courts and allow for restrictions on unfettered transfers.

My question is how do you really legally unionize when in 4 years none of the kids that are being forced to abide by it voted on it.

With college being a revolving door, it seems like it would be difficult having so many players lives being controlled by something none of them voted for.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

Mid-January

Depends on the school. Anytime in January is the correct answer.