How was that not a TD?

#177
#177
VolsSportsFan said:
This is where we part; to some of us the evidence is so clear that the attempts to give it "close study" have come down to desperate attempts to see what isn't there. Not to mention this is after there has been responses to the study; but obviously neither side has been convinced by either side's responses.

For us who clearly see a fumble, it's crazy that anyone can't see it's a clear fumble. At that point no amount of discussion, screenshots, videos, etc. is going to matter.

Have you never gotten to the point in a "debate" where to you the evidence was clear for your side and you simply felt the other side's argument was silly?
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Why yes, I am at that point with the position you are taking now. :thumbsup:

Edit: The entire point of having a replay official is for closer study.
 
#178
#178
Not trying to be a homer, but I think the tip of the ball crosses and the video evidence isn't conclusive enough to overturn the call on the field. IMO. Probably being a homer though
 
#179
#179
NMVol said:
Why yes, I am at that point with the position you are taking now. :thumbsup:

Edit: The entire point of having a replay official is for closer study.
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And apparently they did their job. You just don't like their ruling.
 
#180
#180
VolsSportsFan said:
And apparently they did their job. You just don't like their ruling.
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Hear%20No%20Evil%20See%20No%20Evil%20Speak%20No%20Evil.jpg
 
#183
#183
NMVol said:
Its actually quite easy. Some people can not palm a basketball but most can palm a football, and the point is easier than the larger mid part.
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He wasn't palming it though; the end tip of the ball looks likes it was on either his fingertips or the middle of his fingers there...there's no way to hold a football, possessively or not, at that point
 
#184
#184
NMVol said:
What I think is that its not indisputable that he is not palming it and does not have possession. True that formulation is legalistic. Take some of your own advice. Let it go.

Edit: Rules though are by their nature subject to interpretation.
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I agree that the picture is inconclusive, but it's clear when watching the replay that he had already begun fumbling the ball.
 
#186
#186
bamawriter said:
This thread goes to prove that football fans will argue anything, no matter how weak the argument. A ref could declare that the sky is green, and if the call helped their team, fans would argue that there is no indisputable evidence that it's not.
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So, you're saying that when a BB player goes up with 2 hands on the ball and fluidly transitions to make a one-handed slam, that it doesn't count...since he "lost control?" Huh? He clearly has possession of the ball with his left hand well after the right hand releases. He's stretching to the pylon with the hand that's closest to it. Hard to imagine, that an athlete could do such a thing, I know. :loco:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkbAzKzJM7g[/youtube]

You can clearly see that there was NO rotation on the ball, nor change in angle = control of the ball. The split second it leaves his left hand, you can see an immediate and dramatic rotation of the ball = loss of control.
 

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#187
#187
It looks like the rotation comes from the movement of his hand trying to get back the ball...he just kind of bats at it and it causes the dramatic rotation

But the ball itself is also starting to slow move forward away from him before then, like it's gradually drifting forward at a slightly differing rate right before the goal line

tenfumble.gif
 
#189
#189
Stumbleandfumble said:
I think it's pretty clear it was a touchdown. Just because he pulled one hand off to stretch further doesn't meant he lost control. Refs blew it as usual.

ibk8i0GnMoCoL6.gif
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This! He had all five fingers on the ball as it broke the plane. His thumb comes off when the ball is about 2/3 of the way across the line (not 2/3 of the ball). This was a touchdown and if this is the video that the refs used, there is no way that there is "indisputable" evidence to say it isn't. I don't know about anyone else on here, but I can hold a ball by the end and stretch all the way out just like he did and not lose the ball until I hit the ground. ESPECIALLY WITH THE STICKY GLOVES ON! If you can't hold and control a ball like that, you need to check your hand size against an adult. This was a blown call IMO.
 
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#190
#190
TrueOrange said:
It looks like the rotation comes from the movement of his hand trying to get back the ball...he just kind of bats at it and it causes the dramatic rotation

But the ball itself is also starting to slow move forward away from him before then, like it's gradually drifting forward at a slightly differing rate right before the goal line

tenfumble.gif
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It changes rotation ONLY after you see his hand open up....AFTER it's across the goal line.
 
#191
#191
Insunseri said:
I agree. That nose touched the plane. Certainly not enough to overturn it.
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The key is where his thumb comes off the ball and the nose is well beyond the plane before his thumb comes off. Get another person to look with you and call "plane" and "thumb". You will call plane first as you watch the gif.
 
#194
#194
On a normal tv in hd you can actually see the difference between his hands and the football. And the fumble is pretty obvious.

Much clearer than the grainy video people are trying to use as proof.
 
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#195
#195
He clearly lost control of the ball with his right hand well before the goal line--in fact he clearly lost any contact with the ball with his right hand before then. He also clearly lost any control of the ball he might have had with his left hand before he hit the ground. But I don't think the video establishes with 100% certainty that he wasn't cupping the rear point of the ball briefly with his left hand as the nose of the ball broke the plane. It certainly looks like that is what he was trying to do, i.e., he could feel the ball coming out of his hands and he was trying to cup the end with his left hand and direct the nose across the goal line. If we had a close up view from directly overhead or something where we could see his left hand clearly, my guess is it would show that he lost control before the nose broke the plane and it was a fumble. But the only video we have seen does not establish with 100% certainty that he wasn't still exercising some control over the rear of the ball with his left hand as it broke the plane, so the call should have stood IMO (and it should have stood if it had been called a fumble on the field as well). I think all the replay officials really looked at was what was going on with his right hand, and he clearly lost any contact with the ball well before the goal line.
 
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#196
#196
Spartacavolus said:
Unbelievable. The ball wasn't under control when it crossed the line. Wtf is wrong with you people.
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Here's what's happening. Most people here are disagreeing and discussing a very close call like adults. But a few people are angry and can't accept that others don't accept their point unequivocally, and they've resorted to insults.
 
#197
#197
OrangeBloodinTN said:
Looks like a TD to me. Possession with hand as he crosses the plane.
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What you can't see from that blurry shot is how much of a grip he still has on the ball at that point. However, there is a ref standing RIGHT THERE looking at the play and he called a touchdown. there is clearly not "indisputable evidence" or we would not be disputing it. Even two Gator fans in myself and LW are disputing it so by rule, it should not be overturned.

Replay was installed to correct obvious bad calls and it has morphed into replay refs officiating the game from behind a wall in front of a TV. That is just plain wrong.
 
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#200
#200
OrangeBloodinTN said:
Here's what's happening. Most people here are disagreeing and discussing a very close call like adults. But a few people are angry and can't accept that others don't accept their point unequivocally, and they've resorted to insults.
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well, in all fairness, when something is indisputable, arguing about it means one wants to argue, or can't see shiznit, or both
 
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