Hundreds of examples of fraud by Trump and his family, corporations

[Vol8188]

Didn’t Trumps accountant or CFO or whatever just plead guilty to fraud? Might that have something to do with this lawsuit? Maybe he cut a deal to lessen his sentence by providing information?

If your wild speculation were remotely true, they would've filed criminal charges. They did not. Six years of investigations, 0 crimes.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Give it a little time.

for what?

 

[Vol8188]

I'm not sure that's not the case. As was stated before - the evidence supplied to the AG probably came from the lenders and insurance companies. They may not have to bring suit or do anything but report damages to the AG. I would suspect that any damage, even a .001% interest rate benefit would check the box of "damages." Assuming that element would be required.

I'm not sure why this is the sticking point, I don't see how this even a debatable point. The defense in my opinion would certainly focus on intent as the get out of jail free card. No doubt trumps lawyers will blame the accountants and underlings and that trump was oblivious to the day to day aspects of loan and insurance procurement.

There’s no one to blame because there’s no actual issue. Just partisan nonsense. One of the actual claims James made was

“Mar a Largo made less than 25 million, and should have been valued at 75 million”

That valuation is 100% insane. No one values a business at 3x earnings. If they do, tell them to call me, because I’ll gladly buy it. You’d be hard pressed to find any large business sell for 3x earnings. 15-30 (depending on the industry) is probably more typical

 

[LSU-SIU]

There’s no one to blame because there’s no actual issue. Just partisan nonsense. One of the actual claims James made was

“Mar a Largo made less than 25 million, and should have been valued at 75 million”

That valuation is 100% insane. No one values a business at 3x earnings. If they do, tell them to call me, because I’ll gladly buy it. You’d be hard pressed to find any large business sell for 3x earnings. 15-30 (depending on the industry) is probably more typical

There is a reason why non-liquid damages have to be a part of the fact finding and conclusions of litigation.

At the end of the day, most of what is in there is opinion i.e. non-liquid assets. There is one part that I would hedge and that was liquid cash, but even that was insignificant iirc to the totals.

 

[LSU-SIU]

For the record, I don't vote. This country is going to collapse and it doesn't matter what happens, imo. With that said, I kind of like the Orange fellow at this point, but I rather disliked him for 30 years. LoL

With that said, what the OP is really doing is getting all hot and bothered because the Orange fellow is claiming he has a big dick, and the OP thinks he has a small dick. Basically, that the gist of the suit. Inherently there is no damages for one purely claiming to have a big dick even if they have a small dick, generally speaking. The OP basically suffers from Orange Man mental disease, its still being researched at this time.

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But it's all made up, right Trumpsters? All fiction.

The whole petition could be true but at the end of the day, there is no case as there doesn't appear to be damages.

Where are the damages?

 

[lawgator1]

For the record, I don't vote. This country is going to collapse and it doesn't matter what happens, imo. With that said, I kind of like the Orange fellow at this point, but I rather disliked him for 30 years. LoL

With that said, what the OP is really doing is getting all hot and bothered because the Orange fellow is claiming he has a big dick, and the OP thinks he has a small dick. Basically, that the gist of the suit. Inherently there is no damages for one purely claiming to have a big dick even if they have a small dick, generally speaking. The OP basically suffers from Orange Man mental disease, its still being researched at this time.



The whole petition could be true but at the end of the day, there is no case as there doesn't appear to be damages.

Where are the damages?

Lost tax revenue, mis-applied insurance and loan terms.

That's why he did it. To cheat. To cheat people out of money.

Did you see his pathetic interview with Hannity? His excuse for what he did is that its okay that they lied and falsified the values because it was up to the other side to figure out they were being cheated. And of course nuthugger Hannity did not challenge that at all.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Lost tax revenue, mis-applied insurance and loan terms.

Where is the lost tax revenue? (taxes are generally assets at the agency level and done administratively, with judicial review by courts)

Did the banks and insurance companies not do due diligence? Most of the stuff in the complaint deals with estimated values, if they did due diligence than there can't be a loss.

 

[Vol8188]

Lost tax revenue, mis-applied insurance and loan terms.

That's why he did it. To cheat. To cheat people out of money.

Did you see his pathetic interview with Hannity? His excuse for what he did is that its okay that they lied and falsified the values because it was up to the other side to figure out they were being cheated. And of course nuthugger Hannity did not challenge that at all.

Lost tax revenue? You believe NY allowed trump to determine his own property tax value?

Please explain

 

[lawgator1]

Where is the lost tax revenue?

Did the banks and insurance companies not do due diligence? Most of the stuff in the complaint deals with estimated values, if they did due diligence than there can't be a loss.

I don't know how many times we can say this as evidently Trumpsters are incapable of understanding basics:

1) Even if you are estimating a value when you apply for a loan, it is PATENTLY ILLEGAL to intentionally falsify the valuation.

2) Even if the bank has its own duty to its principals or shareholders to perform a valuation of its own, IT IS STILL PATENTLY ILLEGAL for him to have tendered to them a false one.

And if this happened once or twice, or even a handful of times over the years given the size of his holdings, it would not amount to much and be of no consequence. But when it is your standard pattern and practice to commit fraud, that's a problem.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I don't know how many times we can say this as evidently Trumpsters are incapable of understanding basics:

1) Even if you are estimating a value when you apply for a loan, it is PATENTLY ILLEGAL to intentionally falsify the valuation.

2) Even if the bank has its own duty to its principals or shareholders to perform a valuation of its own, IT IS STILL PATENTLY ILLEGAL for him to have tendered to them a false one.

And if this happened once or twice, or even a handful of times over the years given the size of his holdings, it would not amount to much and be of no consequence. But when it is your standard pattern and practice to commit fraud, that's a problem.

Funny you are calling people names. That is not what I said, I asked what are the damages. LoL Its not false if its an opinion i.e. non-liquid assets.

Everything you just wrote is immaterial, what are the damages?

Lets say the whole petition is 100% true, what are the damages?

 

[Weezer]

I don't know how many times we can say this as evidently Trumpsters are incapable of understanding basics:

1) Even if you are estimating a value when you apply for a loan, it is PATENTLY ILLEGAL to intentionally falsify the valuation.

2) Even if the bank has its own duty to its principals or shareholders to perform a valuation of its own, IT IS STILL PATENTLY ILLEGAL for him to have tendered to them a false one.

And if this happened once or twice, or even a handful of times over the years given the size of his holdings, it would not amount to much and be of no consequence. But when it is your standard pattern and practice to commit fraud, that's a problem.

You just described our government.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Lost tax revenue? You believe NY allowed trump to determine his own property tax value?

Please explain

We're dealing with someone that doesn't appear to know what damages are so yeah, he probably doesn't realize agencies are in charge of property tax. Of course, I didn't see any counts or prayers for relief for payment or non-payment of taxes. (maybe I missed it)

 

[825VOL]

I don't know how many times we can say this as evidently Trumpsters are incapable of understanding basics:

1) Even if you are estimating a value when you apply for a loan, it is PATENTLY ILLEGAL to intentionally falsify the valuation.

2) Even if the bank has its own duty to its principals or shareholders to perform a valuation of its own, IT IS STILL PATENTLY ILLEGAL for him to have tendered to them a false one.

And if this happened once or twice, or even a handful of times over the years given the size of his holdings, it would not amount to much and be of no consequence. But when it is your standard pattern and practice to commit fraud, that's a problem.

You need to stick to whatever type of law you practice, because you obviously don't know a damn thing about how property evaluations are considered on loans, versus on tax assessment, versus anything else. When you apply for a loan of any type, you can state whatever you want on the application. That is not fraud. Your opinion of your property's value, means squat to a bank or any other lender who is required to do their own due diligence on every loan application before making a loan.

 

[LSU-SIU]

You need to stick to whatever type of law you practice, because you obviously don't know a damn thing about how property evaluations are considered on loans, versus on tax assessment, versus anything else. When you apply for a loan of any type, you can state whatever you want on the application. That is not fraud. Your opinion of your property's value, means squat to a bank or any other lender who is required to do their own due diligence on every loan application before making a loan.

Please tell me that person isn't an attorney. Lord help us. I don't even know why anyone would have to be specialized to answer the question I have for him/her/it.

 

[lawgator1]

18 U.S.C. s. 1014:

Whoever knowingly makes any false statement or report, or willfully overvalues any land, property or security, for the purpose of influencing in any way the action of the Federal Housing Administration, the Farm Credit Administration, Federal Crop Insurance Corporation or a company the Corporation reinsures, the Secretary of Agriculture acting through the Farmers Home Administration or successor agency, the Rural Development Administration or successor agency, any Farm Credit Bank, production credit association, agricultural credit association, bank for cooperatives, or any division, officer, or employee thereof, or of any regional agricultural credit corporation established pursuant to law, or a Federal land bank, a Federal land bank association, a Federal Reserve bank, a small business investment company, as defined in section 103 of the Small Business Investment Act of 1958 (15 U.S.C. 662), or the Small Business Administration in connection with any provision of that Act, a Federal credit union, an insured State-chartered credit union, any institution the accounts of which are insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation,,[1] any Federal home loan bank, the Federal Housing Finance Agency, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Farm Credit System Insurance Corporation, or the National Credit Union Administration Board, a branch or agency of a foreign bank (as such terms are defined in paragraphs (1) and (3) of section 1(b) of the International Banking Act of 1978), an organization operating under section 25 or section 25(a) [2] of the Federal Reserve Act, or a mortgage lending business, or any person or entity that makes in whole or in part a federally related mortgage loan as defined in section 3 of the Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act of 1974, upon any application, advance, discount, purchase, purchase agreement, repurchase agreement, commitment, loan, or insurance agreement or application for insurance or a guarantee, or any change or extension of any of the same, by renewal, deferment of action or otherwise, or the acceptance, release, or substitution of security therefor, shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both. The term “State-chartered credit union” includes a credit union chartered under the laws of a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States.


NY penal code s. 187, reads in part:

4. "Residential mortgage fraud" is committed by a person who,
knowingly and with intent to defraud, presents, causes to be presented,
or prepares with knowledge or belief that it will be used in soliciting
an applicant for, applying for, underwriting or closing a residential
mortgage loan, or filing with a county clerk of any county in the state
arising out of and related to the closing of a residential mortgage
loan, any written statement which:
(a) contains materially false information concerning any fact material
thereto; or
(b) conceals, for the purpose of misleading, information concerning
any fact material thereto.

....

S 187.25 Residential mortgage fraud in the first degree.
A person is guilty of residential mortgage fraud in the first degree
when he or she commits residential mortgage fraud and thereby receives
proceeds or any other funds in the aggregate in excess of one million
dollars.
Residential mortgage fraud in the first degree is a class B felony.

 

[LSU-SIU]

We're asking a simple question, what are the damages?

I'll get to your cite next if you wish, first things first.

(posting cites doesn't prove damages)

 

[825VOL]

18 U.S.C. s. 1014:

Whoever knowingly makes any false statement or report, or willfully overvalues any land, property or security, for the purpose of influencing in any way the action of the Federal Housing Administration, the Farm Credit Administration, Federal Crop Insurance Corporation or a company the Corporation reinsures, the Secretary of Agriculture acting through the Farmers Home Administration or successor agency, the Rural Development Administration or successor agency, any Farm Credit Bank, production credit association, agricultural credit association, bank for cooperatives, or any division, officer, or employee thereof, or of any regional agricultural credit corporation established pursuant to law, or a Federal land bank, a Federal land bank association, a Federal Reserve bank, a small business investment company, as defined in section 103 of the Small Business Investment Act of 1958 (15 U.S.C. 662), or the Small Business Administration in connection with any provision of that Act, a Federal credit union, an insured State-chartered credit union, any institution the accounts of which are insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation,,[1] any Federal home loan bank, the Federal Housing Finance Agency, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Farm Credit System Insurance Corporation, or the National Credit Union Administration Board, a branch or agency of a foreign bank (as such terms are defined in paragraphs (1) and (3) of section 1(b) of the International Banking Act of 1978), an organization operating under section 25 or section 25(a) [2] of the Federal Reserve Act, or a mortgage lending business, or any person or entity that makes in whole or in part a federally related mortgage loan as defined in section 3 of the Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act of 1974, upon any application, advance, discount, purchase, purchase agreement, repurchase agreement, commitment, loan, or insurance agreement or application for insurance or a guarantee, or any change or extension of any of the same, by renewal, deferment of action or otherwise, or the acceptance, release, or substitution of security therefor, shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both. The term “State-chartered credit union” includes a credit union chartered under the laws of a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States.


NY penal code s. 187, reads in part:

4. "Residential mortgage fraud" is committed by a person who,
knowingly and with intent to defraud, presents, causes to be presented,
or prepares with knowledge or belief that it will be used in soliciting
an applicant for, applying for, underwriting or closing a residential
mortgage loan, or filing with a county clerk of any county in the state
arising out of and related to the closing of a residential mortgage
loan, any written statement which:
(a) contains materially false information concerning any fact material
thereto; or
(b) conceals, for the purpose of misleading, information concerning
any fact material thereto.

....

S 187.25 Residential mortgage fraud in the first degree.
A person is guilty of residential mortgage fraud in the first degree
when he or she commits residential mortgage fraud and thereby receives
proceeds or any other funds in the aggregate in excess of one million
dollars.
Residential mortgage fraud in the first degree is a class B felony.

Great, your law degree taught you how to copy and paste. Bravo!!!!!!

Now, let's put it to practice shall we?

If I you apply for a mortgage and you put down your house is worth $250K but after an appraisal the true value is $225K did you commit fraud? If you had an appraisal done last year for $225K and you think the market has come up so you put down the value once again as $250K, did you commit fraud? If you tell the lender your house is 2,800 sq ft but the appraisal shows it is 2758 sq ft, did you commit fraud?

I look forward to your answers.

 

[Vol8188]

18 U.S.C. s. 1014:

Whoever knowingly makes any false statement or report, or willfully overvalues any land, property or security, for the purpose of influencing in any way the action of the Federal Housing Administration, the Farm Credit Administration, Federal Crop Insurance Corporation or a company the Corporation reinsures, the Secretary of Agriculture acting through the Farmers Home Administration or successor agency, the Rural Development Administration or successor agency, any Farm Credit Bank, production credit association, agricultural credit association, bank for cooperatives, or any division, officer, or employee thereof, or of any regional agricultural credit corporation established pursuant to law, or a Federal land bank, a Federal land bank association, a Federal Reserve bank, a small business investment company, as defined in section 103 of the Small Business Investment Act of 1958 (15 U.S.C. 662), or the Small Business Administration in connection with any provision of that Act, a Federal credit union, an insured State-chartered credit union, any institution the accounts of which are insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation,,[1] any Federal home loan bank, the Federal Housing Finance Agency, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the Farm Credit System Insurance Corporation, or the National Credit Union Administration Board, a branch or agency of a foreign bank (as such terms are defined in paragraphs (1) and (3) of section 1(b) of the International Banking Act of 1978), an organization operating under section 25 or section 25(a) [2] of the Federal Reserve Act, or a mortgage lending business, or any person or entity that makes in whole or in part a federally related mortgage loan as defined in section 3 of the Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act of 1974, upon any application, advance, discount, purchase, purchase agreement, repurchase agreement, commitment, loan, or insurance agreement or application for insurance or a guarantee, or any change or extension of any of the same, by renewal, deferment of action or otherwise, or the acceptance, release, or substitution of security therefor, shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both. The term “State-chartered credit union” includes a credit union chartered under the laws of a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States.


NY penal code s. 187, reads in part:

4. "Residential mortgage fraud" is committed by a person who,
knowingly and with intent to defraud, presents, causes to be presented,
or prepares with knowledge or belief that it will be used in soliciting
an applicant for, applying for, underwriting or closing a residential
mortgage loan, or filing with a county clerk of any county in the state
arising out of and related to the closing of a residential mortgage
loan, any written statement which:
(a) contains materially false information concerning any fact material
thereto; or
(b) conceals, for the purpose of misleading, information concerning
any fact material thereto.

....

S 187.25 Residential mortgage fraud in the first degree.
A person is guilty of residential mortgage fraud in the first degree
when he or she commits residential mortgage fraud and thereby receives
proceeds or any other funds in the aggregate in excess of one million
dollars.
Residential mortgage fraud in the first degree is a class B felony.

Do you intend on backing up your claim that any of this caused "lost tax revenue"

 

[lawgator1]

Great, your law degree taught you how to copy and paste. Bravo!!!!!!

Now, let's put it to practice shall we?

If I you apply for a mortgage and you put down your house is worth $250K but after an appraisal the true value is $225K did you commit fraud? If you had an appraisal done last year for $225K and you think the market has come up so you put down the value once again as $250K, did you commit fraud? If you tell the lender your house is 2,800 sq ft but the appraisal shows it is 2758 sq ft, did you commit fraud?

I look forward to your answers.

If you routinely and with a plan to defraud estimate properties at 3x their value, yes. Yes. Yes, you commit a crime.

 

[lawgator1]

Do you intend on backing up your claim that any of this caused "lost tax revenue"

The AG will.

 

[825VOL]

If you routinely and with a plan to defraud estimate properties at 3x their value, yes. Yes. Yes, you commit a crime.

You never answered the questions. I really didn't expect you to as it would blow away your entire argument as well as the AG's.

Now lets look at what you did answer. You used the word estimate. I bolded it in your response just to make sure you saw what you wrote.

My estimate of the value of my property is MY estimate. My estimate of value may include all kinds of things that an outside person may or may not consider to be contributory to value such as but not limited to celebrity status of previous occupant, knowledge of improvements I could easily make to the property, offers to purchase said property that are not public record, improvements already made that add value unknown to others, and on and on it could go.

If you as a lender accept my estimate, then you are acknowledging that my estimate is close enough to accurate for my transaction. If some outside 3rd party does not agree with that estimate years later, neither is it relevant nor is it fraud.

 

[LSU-SIU]

If you routinely and with a plan to defraud estimate properties at 3x their value, yes. Yes. Yes, you commit a crime.

You are not answering even the most basic of questions. You don't even need to be an attorney to answer these.

I can claim my house is worth $1 trillion dollars, that isn't fraud or defrauding anyone.... why? Because its not a fact whatever amount I say.

Now, if I claim I own a house which I do not, that is a fact which might be used in a fraud litigation. However, you would still have to defraud someone.

 

[LSU-SIU]

The AG will.

There are no counts nor prayers for relief as they pertain to taxes, this would be normally be done through the tax agency (original jurisdiction). Property taxes are assessed and determined by the tax agency.

Tax agencies create their own records, assessments, etc., it has nothing to do with what the owner claims.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Lost tax revenue, mis-applied insurance and loan terms.

That's why he did it. To cheat. To cheat people out of money.

Did you see his pathetic interview with Hannity? His excuse for what he did is that its okay that they lied and falsified the values because it was up to the other side to figure out they were being cheated. And of course nuthugger Hannity did not challenge that at all.

Apoplexia ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ LOL

 

[lawgator1]

You never answered the questions. I really didn't expect you to as it would blow away your entire argument as well as the AG's.

Now lets look at what you did answer. You used the word estimate. I bolded it in your response just to make sure you saw what you wrote.

My estimate of the value of my property is MY estimate. My estimate of value may include all kinds of things that an outside person may or may not consider to be contributory to value such as but not limited to celebrity status of previous occupant, knowledge of improvements I could easily make to the property, offers to purchase said property that are not public record, improvements already made that add value unknown to others, and on and on it could go.

If you as a lender accept my estimate, then you are acknowledging that my estimate is close enough to accurate for my transaction. If some outside 3rd party does not agree with that estimate years later, neither is it relevant nor is it fraud.

If you intentionally provide a false estimate you commit a crime.