Hurd can help immediately...

#27
#27
oregonvol said:
Oh, I'm crushed. I guess this means we can't build a fort together at recess. Darn it.
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I'm sure if we were building a fort together, you would question and criticize my every move and claim you were just trying to hold me accountable..........so no, I don't want to build a fort with you.
 
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#28
#28
Freak said:
So you feel the run game was ineffective? Is it the system you have issue with or the execution?
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You know, I don't know if it's the system as a whole or just the main plays they were running last season. But if you look at teams that really run well out of the spread (like Auburn), they don't waste much time in getting to the line of scrimmage. Whereas, most of the time we had Worley back there and were running what appeared to be our base offense, Worley would get the ball and hold it and pause before ultimately handing it off to the RB. That pause often allowed the defense to get through holes in our line and disrupt the play.

I don't know why we were running those sorts of plays over and over again last season. I'm hoping there was some sort of strategy there that I'm missing or that it was simply a miscalculation of SEC defensive speed that will be recognized and corrected this season. But, as far as conventional offensive wisdom, the only reason to take extra time and invite the defense into the backfield is to run misdirection plays, screens and counters, etc. I don't see Hurd as the ideal back for something like that. I'd prefer to see Hurd running North-South more, hitting the hole quick and at full speed, making one cut and going. That's what he did on his highlight reel and he did it very impressively. You pretty much never see big backs used primarily in screen/draw/counter plays, but those seem to be the most productive options when you take so much time and allow the defense into the backfield.

I am hoping this year we get our runners to the hole and to the line of scrimmage much faster. I think it will especially benefit someone with Hurd's abilities.
 
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#29
#29
fade route said:
I'm sure if we were building a fort together, you would question and criticize my every move and claim you were just trying to hold me accountable..........so no, I don't want to build a fort with you.
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Whereas you would probably just put a stick in the ground and then claim that's all we could possibly do, because, you know, "Dooley".
 
#31
#31
oregonvol said:
You know, I don't know if it's the system as a whole or just the main plays they were running last season. But if you look at teams that really run well out of the spread (like Auburn), they don't waste much time in getting to the line of scrimmage. Whereas, most of the time we had Worley back there and were running what appeared to be our base offense, Worley would get the ball and hold it and pause before ultimately handing it off to the RB. That pause often allowed the defense to get through holes in our line and disrupt the play.

I don't know why we were running those sorts of plays over and over again last season. I'm hoping there was some sort of strategy there that I'm missing or that it was simply a miscalculation of SEC defensive speed that will be recognized and corrected this season. But, as far as conventional offensive wisdom, the only reason to take extra time and invite the defense into the backfield is to run misdirection plays, screens and counters, etc. I don't see Hurd as the ideal back for something like that. I'd prefer to see Hurd running North-South more, hitting the hole quick and at full speed, making one cut and going. That's what he did on his highlight reel and he did it very impressively. You pretty much never see big backs used primarily in screen/draw/counter plays, but those seem to be the most productive options when you take so much time and allow the defense into the backfield.

I am hoping this year we get our runners to the hole and to the line of scrimmage much faster. I think it will especially benefit someone with Hurd's abilities.
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Thanks for responding.

Are you taking about the actual exchange? Don't you think thats a strategy of the read option at times--to hold the ball as long as possible in an attempt to give the quarterback more time to read the defense? Im pretty sure I remember Worley discussing it on a couple of occasions.

How did this team finish in average yards per carry compared to other trams thr past ten years? Any idea?
 
#32
#32
Freak said:
Thanks for responding.

Are you taking about the actual exchange? Don't you think thats a strategy of the read option at times--to hold the ball as long as possible in an attempt to give the quarterback more time to read the defense? Im pretty sure I remember Worley discussing it on a couple of occasions.

How did this team finish in average yards per carry compared to other trams thr past ten years? Any idea?
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I know that may be part of the strategy of some read option schemes, but I've never seen a team take that amount of time in the backfield and be successful at this level. Have you? Is it fair to say that some stuff works better against the slower, less talented defenses you see at mid-majors? I just don't see Texas A&M or Auburn or others taking that kind of time in the backfield on runs.

You're right, our yards-per-carry average did improve over previous teams. But I don't think that's a be-all/end-all stat. Our offense was pretty bad. Our running game was not reliable. It didn't sustain drives for us. It didn't move the ball consistently. We really struggled to pick up 3rd and short. What I saw, I wouldn't call a "good running offense", no matter what the yards per carry were.
 
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#33
#33
oregonvol said:
I know that may be part of the strategy of some read option schemes, but I've never seen a team take that amount of time in the backfield and be successful at this level. Have you? Is it fair to say that some stuff works better against the slower, less talented defenses you see at mid-majors? I just don't see Texas A&M or Auburn or others taking that kind of time in the backfield on runs.

You're right, our yards-per-carry average did improve over previous teams. But I don't think that's a be-all/end-all stat. Our offense was pretty bad. Our running game was not reliable. It didn't sustain drives for us. It didn't move the ball consistently. We really struggled to pick up 3rd and short. What I saw, I wouldn't call a "good running offense", no matter what the yards per carry were.
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Maybe one of our resident coaches who runs this system can chime in, but I thought in a read scheme, the longer you can string out that read (to a degree) the better. And I think Auburn's read plays are slow developing, they outlined several times during the season how their quarterback actually steps toward the line with the back in an attempt to give himself more time to make that read, which puts more pressure on the defense.

If not average yards per carry, what stat would you use to access our running game? And beyond the eyeball test, what constitutes a good running offense in your opinion?

The offense was bad, but I'm not sure how you can say that about the running game when we averaged more yards per carry than previous teams and did so with very little threat of a passing game.

I'll give you the fact that we struggled at times in short yardage, but we also tried to get cute in several of those situations by lining up behind center and even in an I-formation on a couple of occasions, which wasn't this team's identity.
 
#34
#34
Freak said:
Thanks for responding.

Are you taking about the actual exchange? Don't you think thats a strategy of the read option at times--to hold the ball as long as possible in an attempt to give the quarterback more time to read the defense? Im pretty sure I remember Worley discussing it on a couple of occasions.

How did this team finish in average yards per carry compared to other trams thr past ten years? Any idea?
Click to expand...

Lane and Neal rushed the ball 176 times for 1366 yards in 2012,(7 combined TD's) under dooley/chaney.

Lane and Neal rushed the ball 316 times for 1658 yards this past season (16 combined TDs), both averaging over 5 yards per carry, not much difference there from the previous season. Lane got 215 of the carries for 1124 yds.

Tauren Poole was a 1000 yard rusher in 2010...

In Kiffin's one year Hardesty rushed for 1345 yards on a whopping 282 carries, 4.8 yard average and 13 TD's.
 
#35
#35
KBVol said:
All running backs run "upright" until they're required to lower their pads. I don't expect a running back to "squat down" when hitting the hole.... I expect them to accelerate, eyes up, and then drop their pad level when either expecting or creating contact. I seriously doubt this will be a problem with Jalen.
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^This is 100% true. I believe he will be fine. Just like typical Vol fans panicking for no reason. He will get in college S&C program which will increase his muscle mass and strength. If the coaches have an issue with his running style CRG I'm sure will address it.

I also thing he fits in fine with the offense
 
#36
#36
Improving the running game despite an anemic passing game was all the more impressive. OptimismÂ…it's contagious.
 
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#37
#37
vol66 said:
Lane and Neal rushed the ball 176 times for 1366 yards in 2012,(7 combined TD's) under dooley/chaney.

Lane and Neal rushed the ball 316 times for 1658 yards this past season (16 combined TDs), both averaging over 5 yards per carry, not much difference there from the previous season. Lane got 215 of the carries for 1124 yds.

Tauren Poole was a 1000 yard rusher in 2010...

In Kiffin's one year Hardesty rushed for 1345 yards on a whopping 282 carries, 4.8 yard average and 13 TD's.
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Thanks vol66. I'll have to go back and look at the numbers. I know at one point we were averaging more yards per carry than any season in the past ten years, I believe. But with the way we struggled at times down the stretch, we may not have sustained that average.
 
#38
#38
Freak said:
Thanks vol66. I'll have to go back and look at the numbers. I know at one point we were averaging more yards per carry than any season in the past ten years, I believe. But with the way we struggled at times down the stretch, we may not have sustained that average.
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Yeah, the RB's averaged 6.3 yards per carry against the sunbelt schools, 6.1 against the non-major, 4.7 vs. Oregon, but only 4.3 versus SEC schools on average.

For some perspective, in 2010 our RB's only averaged 2.3 yards per carry (SEC) which is of course unacceptable.
 
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#39
#39
roddo518 said:
If his shoulder isn't football damaged too much. Anyone heard how stable his shoulder is after his second surgery? I saw him play in hs and he was the kinda back that only comes around once every ten years.
:rock:
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His shoulder will be fine if looks at your Avi for more than 2 seconds.
 
#40
#40
vol66 said:
Lane and Neal rushed the ball 176 times for 1366 yards in 2012,(7 combined TD's) under dooley/chaney.

Lane and Neal rushed the ball 316 times for 1658 yards this past season (16 combined TDs), both averaging over 5 yards per carry, not much difference there from the previous season. Lane got 215 of the carries for 1124 yds.

Tauren Poole was a 1000 yard rusher in 2010...

In Kiffin's one year Hardesty rushed for 1345 yards on a whopping 282 carries, 4.8 yard average and 13 TD's.
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Are you sure about the 2012 stats? That is 7.76 yards per carry.

Also, Lane 215 carries for 1124 yards? Should that be Neal?
 
#41
#41
oregonvol said:
I don't question his ability, but I do question how he fits in with what Butch and Bajakian are trying to do. I hope they can adjust it for him, because I can't see the QB-takes-several-seconds-to-scan-the-defense-then-hands-to-RB-who-tries-to-run-around-the-edge-of-the-collapsing-line-of-scrimmage type plays we ran alot last year working with his talents.
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Man, that is the truth. I do not like this offense at all. It blows actually. There needs to be play action to fool LB and S, but not scanning defenses during a play. That needs to be done before the snap. Bottom line is, it takes to long for plays to develop in this offense. It's not pro ready. Nobody does that crap in the NFL.
 
#42
#42
HBCButch said:
Man, that is the truth. I do not like this offense at all. It blows actually. There needs to be play action to fool LB and S, but not scanning defenses during a play. That needs to be done before the snap. Bottom line is, it takes to long for plays to develop in this offense. It's not pro ready. Nobody does that crap in the NFL.
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Is this sarcasm? Nobody runs a zone read in the NFL?
 
#43
#43
1972 Grad said:
Are you sure about the 2012 stats? That is 7.76 yards per carry.

Also, Lane 215 carries for 1124 yards? Should that be Neal?
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Yes, I meant Neal...I'll dbl check the 2012 stats...


Rajion Neal 156 ATT 708 YDs 4.5 AVG/Carry

Marlin Lane Jr. 120 658 5.5
 
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#46
#46
Freak said:
Is this sarcasm? Nobody runs a zone read in the NFL?
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I think he's being serious. However, it just appears he doesn't have a clue about "read" offenses or offensive schemes or even football in general. It's OK. At least he's not being "offensive" intentionally, as is another poster from the great northwest who dislikes Hurd's chances in the SEC, and then blathers on about the simple fact that the Vols need more speed, which they're doing a very fine job of recruiting. :birgits_giggle:
 
#47
#47
Freak said:
Maybe one of our resident coaches who runs this system can chime in, but I thought in a read scheme, the longer you can string out that read (to a degree) the better. And I think Auburn's read plays are slow developing, they outlined several times during the season how their quarterback actually steps toward the line with the back in an attempt to give himself more time to make that read, which puts more pressure on the defense.
Click to expand...

Disagree with this. In every game I saw Auburn play, their run plays developed as fast as possible. They certainly weren't stringing anything out for very long and they were certainly hitting the line scrimmage quicker than we did. Same with Texas A&M. I haven't seen an option/read team take the kind of time in the backfield that we did this year and be successful in the SEC or in the pros.
 
#48
#48
sameolvol said:
I think he's being serious. However, it just appears he doesn't have a clue about "read" offenses or offensive schemes or even football in general. It's OK. At least he's not being "offensive" intentionally, as is another poster from the great northwest who dislikes Hurd's chances in the SEC, and then blathers on about the simple fact that the Vols need more speed, which they're doing a very fine job of recruiting. :birgits_giggle:
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Northwest?...gonna need another hint...alaskavol?
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#49
#49
oregonvol said:
Disagree with this. In every game I saw Auburn play, their run plays developed as fast as possible. They certainly weren't stringing anything out for very long and they were certainly hitting the line scrimmage quicker than we did. Same with Texas A&M. I haven't seen an option/read team take the kind of time in the backfield that we did this year and be successful in the SEC or in the pros.
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I always thought zone reads were somewhat slow developing by nature. Maybe if I get bored I'll pull some film and put a timer to it.
 
#50
#50
roddo518 said:
If his shoulder isn't football damaged too much. Anyone heard how stable his shoulder is after his second surgery? I saw him play in hs and he was the kinda back that only comes around once every ten years.
:rock:
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Wow, ya reckon? No, Bo or Hershel come around every 10-20 years. I'll believe this stuff when I see it.
 
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