I know this might be unpopular…

#101
#101
GOBO-Baseball02 said:
A bit of a loaded question. For the ones that got drafted I say how much higher could they have gone had they been developed. And you don't get a bye on Chase Burns. That was a massive fail on Tennessee's part.

Here we have all these freshman and as I've said, just too many pitchers to get Franks attention. But that's the system. "Get in a lot, play the ones that are hot"

You want one example, I'll give you more that have gone on to be better...

Chase Burns, a massive fail on all levels. Couldn't give him enough $ to stay, couldn't fix the mental, couldn't fix the mechanics. But look at him now.

Ben Joyce, underutilized at Tennessee because Frank couldn't get him under control. Played in low leverage situations. Remember how they brought him in on Friday night against Notre Dame (Super Regional) in like the 7th inning and we were losing like 8-1. Look at him now. Probably could have been drafted a lot higher but to quote Tony "I didn't know what to do with him". Apparently Frank didn't either.

Dollander, ERA increased as the year went on, finished with a 4.75 ERA. I would have thought working with the best that would have gone down.

Beam going thru a rough spot. Good day yesterday though. Let's see if Frank can get him to be the player we all think he can be.

Grant Cherry, underutilized, hit the portal, now thriving at Long Beach State.

Jake Fitzgibbons, underutilized, ERA was erratic - ended with a 3.75 ERA. Still got drafted, probably could have gone higher had UT helped him.

Aaron Combs, underutilized, great arm, ERA over 5.28 right now.

Andrew Behnke, underutilized, a lefty with current 1.80 ERA and last time pitched was mid March. (Is he hurt?)

Zach Joyce, underutilized, hurt early, but then pitched a few innings after that injury, went to the cape, got drafted, placed in Single A where he thrived. Could have been higher draft had they used him. But look at him now.

....And how about all those the hung it up (ie: Hunter Sloop, etc.) that just simply did not get the help. But here we are with all these freshman because so many other guys left the game, for the draft, or portal, because they were not developed and/or used.
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You come across as someone who has an ax to grind.
 
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#103
#103
preacherman20 said:
My point is there is no one who is doing it greater than Frank because that is the trend in the SEC. Hitters catch up with pitchers and they struggle in their second or third year according to how much they have thrown.
Chase got his mind right after he went to the bullpen and is now excelling as a starter again and I have to believe that Frank was a part of getting him right. He worked with him more than any other pitcher last year to get not just his mechanics but mind back where it needed to be so he is excelling but not greater than he did as a closer at the end of last year. His numbers are actually down from the end of the season when he was coming out of the bullpen.
I also say that many of the pitchers in their second or third year also start pitching to the scouts rather than pitching for the team. They get so worried about velo that they forget about pitching but become velo chasers. You see it up and down the rosters in college baseball.
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Blind loyalty to Phil Fulmer sent the UT football program into a 15 year abyss. It is entirely fair and necessary to ask questions when performance begins to wane.
 
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#104
#104
GOBO-Baseball02 said:
A bit of a loaded question. For the ones that got drafted I say how much higher could they have gone had they been developed. And you don't get a bye on Chase Burns. That was a massive fail on Tennessee's part.

Here we have all these freshman and as I've said, just too many pitchers to get Franks attention. But that's the system. "Get in a lot, play the ones that are hot"

You want one example, I'll give you more that have gone on to be better...

Chase Burns, a massive fail on all levels. Couldn't give him enough $ to stay, couldn't fix the mental, couldn't fix the mechanics. But look at him now.

Ben Joyce, underutilized at Tennessee because Frank couldn't get him under control. Played in low leverage situations. Remember how they brought him in on Friday night against Notre Dame (Super Regional) in like the 7th inning and we were losing like 8-1. Look at him now. Probably could have been drafted a lot higher but to quote Tony "I didn't know what to do with him". Apparently Frank didn't either.

Dollander, ERA increased as the year went on, finished with a 4.75 ERA. I would have thought working with the best that would have gone down.

Beam going thru a rough spot. Good day yesterday though. Let's see if Frank can get him to be the player we all think he can be.

Grant Cherry, underutilized, hit the portal, now thriving at Long Beach State.

Jake Fitzgibbons, underutilized, ERA was erratic - ended with a 3.75 ERA. Still got drafted, probably could have gone higher had UT helped him.

Aaron Combs, underutilized, great arm, ERA over 5.28 right now.

Andrew Behnke, underutilized, a lefty with current 1.80 ERA and last time pitched was mid March. (Is he hurt?)

Zach Joyce, underutilized, hurt early, but then pitched a few innings after that injury, went to the cape, got drafted, placed in Single A where he thrived. Could have been higher draft had they used him. But look at him now.

....And how about all those the hung it up (ie: Hunter Sloop, etc.) that just simply did not get the help. But here we are with all these freshman because so many other guys left the game, for the draft, or portal, because they were not developed and/or used.
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Well…..he asked for some examples. Be careful what you ask for
 
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#105
#105
DukeDaisySam said:
Blind loyalty to Phil Fulmer sent the UT football program into a 15 year abyss. It is entirely fair and necessary to ask questions when performance begins to wane.
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That is unfair. Piss poor administration was a problem with whom we replaced him and the crap contract we had with LK.
 
#106
#106
GOBO-Baseball02 said:
Good...I mean "great" pitching coaches should be able to help with the mental part of the game.
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And he did get better as the season went on. He pitched great out of the bullpen. As preacherman stated, Frank helped him. It does not break in a day and it does not fix in a day.
 
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#107
#107
GOBO-Baseball02 said:
A bit of a loaded question. For the ones that got drafted I say how much higher could they have gone had they been developed. And you don't get a bye on Chase Burns. That was a massive fail on Tennessee's part.

Here we have all these freshman and as I've said, just too many pitchers to get Franks attention. But that's the system. "Get in a lot, play the ones that are hot"

You want one example, I'll give you more that have gone on to be better...

Chase Burns, a massive fail on all levels. Couldn't give him enough $ to stay, couldn't fix the mental, couldn't fix the mechanics. But look at him now.

Ben Joyce, underutilized at Tennessee because Frank couldn't get him under control. Played in low leverage situations. Remember how they brought him in on Friday night against Notre Dame (Super Regional) in like the 7th inning and we were losing like 8-1. Look at him now. Probably could have been drafted a lot higher but to quote Tony "I didn't know what to do with him". Apparently Frank didn't either.

Dollander, ERA increased as the year went on, finished with a 4.75 ERA. I would have thought working with the best that would have gone down.

Beam going thru a rough spot. Good day yesterday though. Let's see if Frank can get him to be the player we all think he can be.

Grant Cherry, underutilized, hit the portal, now thriving at Long Beach State.

Jake Fitzgibbons, underutilized, ERA was erratic - ended with a 3.75 ERA. Still got drafted, probably could have gone higher had UT helped him.

Aaron Combs, underutilized, great arm, ERA over 5.28 right now.

Andrew Behnke, underutilized, a lefty with current 1.80 ERA and last time pitched was mid March. (Is he hurt?)

Zach Joyce, underutilized, hurt early, but then pitched a few innings after that injury, went to the cape, got drafted, placed in Single A where he thrived. Could have been higher draft had they used him. But look at him now.

....And how about all those the hung it up (ie: Hunter Sloop, etc.) that just simply did not get the help. But here we are with all these freshman because so many other guys left the game, for the draft, or portal, because they were not developed and/or used.
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You are really trying to spin this to win an argument. I will give one example. Aaron Combs is pitching well this year and really had a bad finish to great outing that is probably the reason for the era. He is getting more innings per outing this year than last year.
 
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#108
#108
GOBO-Baseball02 said:
Good...I mean "great" pitching coaches should be able to help with the mental part of the game.
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Tony Larussa had guys that didn’t pan out, so did Bobby Cox, Sparky Anderson, Dusty Baker...
And those are a couple of the greats, at the highest level!
I think it’s unfair to point out the ones that got away and not bring up the ones that excelled.
There is a reason that 1 out of 3 is considered pretty damn good in baseball...
🤷‍♂️
 
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#109
#109
preacherman20 said:
so, who are the better pitching coaches than Frank? Names and colleges. So we can compare.
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Thank you. If one is going to complain regarding CFA, that’s my question as well, then who?

We’re better off right now than we were last week, as a fan, all I care about. We’re making progress and I can see the glean in their eyes. They want to win today but you can tell by who ain’t playing, they are already coaching for later.
 
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#112
#112
spyfish007 said:
You are really trying to spin this to win an argument. I will give one example. Aaron Combs is pitching well this year and really had a bad finish to great outing that is probably the reason for the era. He is getting more innings per outing this year than last year.
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I'm spinning a question to win an argument?

Here was the question...."Name a player that he has not developed that went somewhere else and was more successful as a pitcher. Please don't tell me Chase Burns." So a question is asked and I'm not allowed to name Chase Burns, the biggest one, the poster child for the one that was here and got away. (Being asked to not name the obvious answer is a loaded question)

I named a player, actually named a lot of players that "went somewhere else" and were better off. I did violate the question by naming Chase Burns, (not sure why were not allowed to name him though)

I'll say it again. I respect Franks career & legacy. He spots great talent and recruits well. But, he's 40 years in and he doesn't have the time to develop the guys that truly need developed. I think the game has passed him (and a lot of us) by. Developing is a minimum if you can recruit from HS, JUCO, and the new baby in town......The Portal & NIL.

As I say, "Recruit a lot and play who's hot"
 
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#113
#113
I looked at Chase Burns recent stats at Wake Forest and it appears he’s slipping back into the problem he was having in early 2023. Slow starts.

In 3 of the last 4 starts (Louisville is only exception) Burns got in early inning (first 3 innings) jambs.

He - and Dollander, did similarly in 2023. Even against the OOC competition and Missouri.

Dolander was getting better and Burns was not. This was why he was sent to pen. And's let’s be honest, Burns’s fiery personality is very suited in the closer role than Dolly’s.

In the tourney and last part if the season, Frank was playing the right buttons.

We need to quit using that 2022 season as a baseline to judge coaches and players. That was a freak show of great and fortunate circumstances
 
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#114
#114
fryeguy93 said:
I looked at Chase Burns recent stats at Wake Forest and it appears he’s slipping back into the problem he was having in early 2023. Slow starts.

In 3 of the last 4 starts (Louisville is only exception) Burns got in early inning (first 3 innings) jambs.

He - and Dollander, did similarly in 2023. Even against the OOC competition and Missouri.

Dolander was getting better and Burns was not. This was why he was sent to pen. And's let’s be honest, Burns’s fiery personality is very suited in the closer role than Dolly’s.

In the tourney and last part if the season, Frank was playing the right buttons.

We need to quit using that 2022 season as a baseline to judge coaches and players. That was a freak show of great and fortunate circumstances
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Well said. Great points!
 
#115
#115
I think some are ignoring the, um, external factors on Chase Burns during last season.

I firmly believe that had an effect on him.
 
#116
#116
GOBO-Baseball02 said:
A bit of a loaded question. For the ones that got drafted I say how much higher could they have gone had they been developed. And you don't get a bye on Chase Burns. That was a massive fail on Tennessee's part.

Here we have all these freshman and as I've said, just too many pitchers to get Franks attention. But that's the system. "Get in a lot, play the ones that are hot"

You want one example, I'll give you more that have gone on to be better...

Chase Burns, a massive fail on all levels. Couldn't give him enough $ to stay, couldn't fix the mental, couldn't fix the mechanics. But look at him now.

Ben Joyce, underutilized at Tennessee because Frank couldn't get him under control. Played in low leverage situations. Remember how they brought him in on Friday night against Notre Dame (Super Regional) in like the 7th inning and we were losing like 8-1. Look at him now. Probably could have been drafted a lot higher but to quote Tony "I didn't know what to do with him". Apparently Frank didn't either.

Dollander, ERA increased as the year went on, finished with a 4.75 ERA. I would have thought working with the best that would have gone down.

Beam going thru a rough spot. Good day yesterday though. Let's see if Frank can get him to be the player we all think he can be.

Grant Cherry, underutilized, hit the portal, now thriving at Long Beach State.

Jake Fitzgibbons, underutilized, ERA was erratic - ended with a 3.75 ERA. Still got drafted, probably could have gone higher had UT helped him.

Aaron Combs, underutilized, great arm, ERA over 5.28 right now.

Andrew Behnke, underutilized, a lefty with current 1.80 ERA and last time pitched was mid March. (Is he hurt?)

Zach Joyce, underutilized, hurt early, but then pitched a few innings after that injury, went to the cape, got drafted, placed in Single A where he thrived. Could have been higher draft had they used him. But look at him now.

....And how about all those the hung it up (ie: Hunter Sloop, etc.) that just simply did not get the help. But here we are with all these freshman because so many other guys left the game, for the draft, or portal, because they were not developed and/or used.
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Grant Cherry…the kid that has 26 walks in 33.2 career innings at Long Beach State? It was the same problem we had with him his freshman year here. He had 9 walks in 3.1 innings here his freshman year, how much would you have pitched him then?

Ben Joyce was coming back from TJ and they wanted to be cautious with him because they knew he had high draft potential. He still pitched almost 30 innings that year. His brother got hurt last year and they are always cautious with pitchers and injuries (to the pitchers benefit I might add).

Like has been mentioned in here, scouting is much more advanced nowadays and I think Beam/Dollander has such good years that it was going to be nearly impossible to replicate what they did in 2022. Anderson actually did Burns a favor moving him to the pen last year
 
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#117
#117
This is one of those situations where Statcast data would helpful. ERA isn't a great way to measure pitching performance.

Using Burns as an example between '22-'23, his strikeouts were up and walks and HR/9 were down. If FIP was available in the college game, I suspect we'd see it would be lower in his sophomore year.

Same goes for Beam. Compared to his frosh year, strikeouts are up this year. Walks are down.

Dollander is a slightly different story. Still had the electric swing and miss stuff, but clearly had trouble locating and got punished for it.

Point is, there's a lot more to the story than just looking at ERA.

And that's without getting into all of the luck-based stuff. BABIP, LOB stats, unfortunate sequencing, etc..
 
#119
#119
1. Do lost command and that produced the results we saw. Why he struggled with command is puzzling, but when he lost the swing and miss fastball it was a struggle.

2. Burns was absolutely dominate out of the pen, and allowed him to be a high leverage transfer. That decision alone changed the entire narrative on his season.

FA isn’t the best pitching coach in College Baseball, but he’s dang good. The staff isn’t mis used or abused, but the one point I do agree with is that TV and him do not effectively use the assortment of arms they have.
 
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#120
#120
It's Time said:
1. Do lost command and that produced the results we saw. Why he struggled with command is puzzling, but when he lost the swing and miss fastball it was a struggle.

2. Burns was absolutely dominate out of the pen, and allowed him to be a high leverage transfer. That decision alone changed the entire narrative on his season.

FA isn’t the best pitching coach in College Baseball, but he’s dang good. The staff isn’t mis used or abused, but the one point I do agree with is that TV and him do not effectively use the assortment of arms they have.
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Playing devil's advocate, remember these are college kids, and no fanbase in the country will say any different.

Part of the development process is seeing how your pieces perform in different leverage situations. I wouldn't worry about it unless the trend continues into the postseason consistently, then it is a problem.

I would even venture so far as to say that experimenting with different arms early in the season is a good thing and indicative of success.
 
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#124
#124
Volprofch05 said:
112
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Fair. Thought you were referring to me. I’ve said multiple times he’s a good pitching coach, but it’s fair to question if he’s elite given the trajectories of a few pitchers we’ve had at UT. But he’s certainly not washed and certainly not someone I’d wanna lose.

Great job by the staff so far tonight!
 
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