I want Riley Ferguson

But, wouldn't you say he was still a success? His argument was no freshman could do it and I say yes he could.

Again, Sandvol, it was MY argument. He quoted my post, That's why I'm defending it.

None of the quarterbacks you mentioned had success in a situation like Dobbs faced. None of them. They all had either proven running backs, proved wide receivers, or both. None of them faced the schedule he did. And, with the exception of Wureffell at UF, none of them were significantly better statistically than Dobbs was, when you compare on a game-by-game average.
 
Nope, he barely had 1000 yards in three years total entering this season.

Stewart had run for nearly 2,000 yards entering his senior year and had led all UT running backs in touchdowns each of the three seasons leading to 1994.

How many yards did Travis Stephens have entering his senior season?
 
Manning, Wuerffel, Greene, Zeir, and Couch all sucked. That's good to know.

Greene was a redshirt freshman, so he's not a part of this.

They don't "suck" but, with the exception of Wuerffel, who walked into a top-10 team, they were not significantly better than Dobbs when you look at the hard statistics.

Sorry to let the hard numbers interfere with your argument.
 
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Danny Wuerffel. He started for four years for the Gators. You can argue he had better players around him and that's true but still Neal and Lane are good SEC backs and you can't argue his offensive line was any better and he competed for championships right away.
Here's where I think your argument is flawed. 40+ coaching changes to date. I don't care how good of an athlete you are instability does not and has never won games. This program has been unstable since Fulmer hired Clausen as his OC. Instability has never bred success in any form. Wuerffel had stability and the SEC then is not the SEC now. When you constantly change play calling, coverages, strength coach, position coach and certain inmates run the asylum, you will not win. This game is far more mental than physical. Fan-atics have a difficult time understanding how a 6-6 300+ lb individual could be beat because we look at size and "oh he's been in the wt room there's no way he shouldn't be dominate" or "they ran 150 "110's no one can beat us in the 4th qtr" We always forget about what's really going on behind the scenes. We never take in consideration that constant transition, instability and throw in an anti social coach who can't coach and you will change the mindset of a team. That 6-6 player doesn't know how to dig deep and stop a 95 yard drive. He doesn't know how. You can bring up every example under the sun but no school in the SEC has gone through what we have including the schedule. This is a rebuild from the ground up brick by brick, recruit by recruit. This is not Auburn where the talent was already in place by the coach who took a year off. They saw that their "Dooley" was the problem not Malzahn. This is going to take time and no true freshman is going to step in after having only gone through fall camp and come in against the #1 team in the country and throw to a bunch of receivers who are still learning the art of route running and blocking. It's absurd for any fanatic to go there but they do.
 
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How many yards did Travis Stephens have entering his senior season?

Just over 1,000. What's your point?

Clausen was a sophomore when Stephens was a senior. Clausen had Stephens and Tennessee's all-time leading rusher behind him as a freshman.
 
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Also, you just limited it to the SEC. There many other examples in other conferences where freshman quarterbacks came in and excelled.
 
Here's where I think your argument is flawed. 40+ coaching changes to date. I don't care how good of an athlete you are instability does not and has never won games. This program has been unstable since Fulmer hired Clausen as his OC. Instability has never bred success in any form. Wuerffel had stability and the SEC then is not the SEC now. When you constantly change play calling, coverages, strength coach, position coach and certain inmates run the asylum, you will not win. This game is far more mental than physical. Fan-atics have a difficult time understanding how a 6-6 300+ lb individual could be beat because we look at size and "oh he's been in the wt room there's no way he shouldn't be dominate" or "they ran 150 "110's no one can beat us in the 4th qtr" We always forget about what's really going on behind the scenes. We never take in consideration that constant transition, instability and throw in an anti social coach who can't coach and you will change the mindset of a team. That 6-6 player doesn't know how to dig deep and stop a 95 yard drive. He doesn't know how. You can bring up every example under the sun but no school in the SEC has gone through what we have including the schedule. This is a rebuild from the ground up brick by brick, recruit by recruit. This is not Auburn where the talent was already in place by the coach who took a year off. They saw that their "Dooley" was the problem not Malzahn. This is going to take time and no true freshman is going to step in after having only gone through fall camp and come in against the #1 team in the country and throw to a bunch of receivers who are still learning the art of route running and blocking. It's absurd for any fanatic to go there but they do.

I agree probably not any freshmen quarterbacks we have but to say it can't be done even on a bad team and I disagree. A great quarterback even a freshman can make a bad team a lot better and have success. It isn't impossible.
 
Also, you just limited it to the SEC. There many other examples in other conferences where freshman quarterbacks came in and excelled.

It wouldn't be a very long list if you were looking at true freshmen.
 
Just over 1,000. What's your point?

Clausen was a sophomore when Stephens was a senior. Clausen had Stephens and Tennessee's all-time leading rusher behind him as a freshman.

My point was you can compare Neal and Stephens. Two running backs with similar yardage coming into their senior years and had success. I do agree Stephens was a better back but Neal is no chump either.
 
Danny Wuerffel, Peyton Manning. You said I couldn't name one. Also, Manning split time with Stewart. There's another one.
 
Also, you just limited it to the SEC. There many other examples in other conferences where freshman quarterbacks came in and excelled.

So what will you say if Ferguson comes in as a RS freshman and plays worse than Dobbs?

True freshman QBs with freshman WRs do not usually succeed. I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but they would be nothing more than outliers.

You are just going out of your way to knock on Dobbs. Pretty sad coming from someone who says they are a Vols fan.
 
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My point was you can compare Neal and Stephens. Two running backs with similar yardage coming into their senior years and had success. I do agree Stephens was a better back but Neal is no chump either.

How does Stephens have anything to do with freshman quarterbacks?
 
I agree probably not any freshmen quarterbacks we have but to say it can't be done even on a bad team and I disagree. A great quarterback even a freshman can make a bad team a lot better and have success. It isn't impossible.

But what you're saying is just not true. True freshman do not come into fall camp with a first year head coach and their 40 something new coach and light the SEC on fire. It does not happen. Not redshirt freshman, true freshman. New receivers (have you ever ran routes?). New coaches with new terminology and schemes. The backs you put on a pedestal just learned how to play RB last year, prior to that they didn't have an RB coach and spent their time thinking they could out run everyone in the SEC. They didn't know how to lower their pads and bounce off LB's and keep their feet moving. There is more to this sport than trying to use a player from '96 as an example.
 
But what you're saying is just not true. True freshman do not come into fall camp with a first year head coach and their 40 something new coach and light the SEC on fire. It does not happen. Not redshirt freshman, true freshman. New receivers (have you ever ran routes?). New coaches with new terminology and schemes. The backs you put on a pedestal just learned how to play RB last year, prior to that they didn't have an RB coach and spent their time thinking they could out run everyone in the SEC. They didn't know how to lower their pads and bounce off LB's and keep their feet moving. There is more to this sport than trying to use a player from '96 as an example.

But, you said I can't name examples and I did. And yes I've run patterns if that matters. This whole argument that anyone who hasn't played major college football can't comment on it is ludicrous. I guess that leaves Butch Jones out because he didn't play major college football. And, yes I know all those things that you mentioned. But your assertion is that it can't be done and hasn't been done and I say you're wrong.
 
So what will you say if Ferguson comes in as a RS freshman and plays worse than Dobbs?

True freshman QBs with freshman WRs do not usually succeed. I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but they would be nothing more than outliers.

You are just going out of your way to knock on Dobbs. Pretty sad coming from someone who says they are a Vols fan.

I'm not knocking Dobbs. I'm just making a counterpoint. Get out of middle school.
 
Stephens was an example just like Neal of backs who had less than stellar freshman through junior years but who were still capable backs.

One big difference though. Neal was less than stellar. Stephens was buried on a depth charge behind a couple of greats.
 
Manning, Wuerffel, Greene, Zeir, and Couch all sucked. That's good to know.
David Green was a redshirt. Zeir, give me a break he graduated early and enrolled in the spring to learn the system and yes he had weapons. Couch, yes sucked his freshman year I repeat 32/84 for 277 yards. Look what he did in his second year once he learned the system. Green had a redshirt year and learned the system. Zeir, came in early plus he played football most of his life in Germany. They sling the ball in Europe and yes he had skill. Dobbs came to fall camp out of high school. Fergie, out of high school. Your argument doesn't work in the SEC.
 
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David Green was a redshirt. Zeir, give me a break he graduated early and enrolled in the spring to learn the system and yes he had weapons. Couch, yes sucked his freshman year I repeat 32/84 for 277 yards. Look what he did in his second year once he learned the system. Green had a redshirt year and learned the system. Zeir, came in early plus he played football most of his life in Germany. They sling the ball in Europe and yes he had skill. Dobbs came to fall camp out of high school. Fergie, out of high school. Your argument doesn't work in the SEC.

You can pooh pooh my examples all you want but I gotcha and you know it.
 

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