I was pretty worried about our secondary...

#76
#76
I understand that these guys were playing out of position a lot last year which you can blame a lot on coaching, but here is my point Sutton may be a gem found in the rough but if he is the best we can put on the field that scares me if he goes down, anybody in our starting secondary goes down that scares me. Just a fan venting concern.
 
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#78
#78
105437 said:
3 weeks ago I was really concerned about our secondary. Unsure how Randolph was going to perform based on his knee recovery. Thinking BMo had the other safety locked up and finally looking at our CBs on the roster and just shook my head with no idea what we would have there.

Now, I've seen Randolph become the clear leader of our secondary who has shown no signs his knee is any sort of an issue.

BMo, who I thought would be the starter, now has been replaced by LaDarrell McNeil. BMo was really good last year which tells me McNeil must have really improved and will upgrade the position.

At CB, did not feel good about this position at all. However, shortly after camp started we started hearing about Cam Sutton. Since then, he has continued to improve and show that he can compete at the SEC level. Add Coleman to the tandem and I really feel we are solid at CB. Sutton and Coleman have been exceptional during camp and now I really think we'll be okay there.

Sure, they'll give up some plays but I think we'll definitely be better on the back end this year.
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We definitely should be improved, but if you dont have guys getting pressure on the QB we could have 4 NFL starters and still have problems. Big Dan and the whole front 7 need to stay in the QB's grill
 
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#79
#79
Tennessee VOLS vs Florida GATORS 9/15/2012 - YouTube

Take 40 seconds and watch the first play. Trey Burton is the QB standing on the right hash, it's not likely to be a pass. Pause it as the defense gets settled. Note that Moore is covering the slot receiver, there is a safety in the middle of the field.

As the play unfolds, you see the farthest WR come in motion, he'll be the ball fake and the Lt. Corner ,Marsalis Teague is waving his arms and will leave, rotating to the middle. The safety also rotates...In all my years, I've never seen this. Teague crosses the right hash as the ball is snapped lol and now the entire defensive backfield is out of position. The full back gets a hat on AJ and now there is literally no one left to make the tackle. To make matters worse, once Teague realizes he's been fooled, he takes a bad angle.

At the snap of the ball we literally had four DB's on the right side of the football!

Of course Teague looks slow, he's taken himself out of the play before the snap, he takes a bad angle. It's like giving a guy a 10 yard head start.

When you hear a coach say, "We can't even get lined up right"...All year, this went on.
 
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#80
#80
I'm personally a little worried about any secondary who is coached by Willie Martinez. I grew up in GA, and they HATED him. He was the laughing stock of the state. He leaves, and all they do is win 10/11 games per year. Here's to hoping his coaching skills have turned the corner...
 
#81
#81
vol66 said:
Tennessee VOLS vs Florida GATORS 9/15/2012 - YouTube

Take 40 seconds and watch the first play. Trey Burton is the QB standing on the right hash, it's not likely to be a pass. Pause it as the defense gets settled. Note that Moore is covering the slot receiver, there is a safety in the middle of the field.

As the play unfolds, you see the farthest WR come in motion, he'll be the ball fake and the Lt. Corner ,Marsalis Teague is waving his arms and will leave, rotating to the middle. The safety also rotates...In all my years, I've never seen this. Teague crosses the right hash as the ball is snapped lol and now the entire defensive backfield is out of position. The full back gets a hat on AJ and now there is literally no one left to make the tackle. To make matters worse, once Teague realizes he's been fooled, he takes a bad angle.

At the snap of the ball we literally had four DB's on the right side of the football!

Of course Teague looks slow, he's taken himself out of the play before the snap, he takes a bad angle. It's like giving a guy a 10 yard head start.

When you hear a coach say, "We can't even get lined up right"...All year, this went on.
Click to expand...

Good Post. Thanks for that analysis. I assume this means that it was coaching - not talent - that caused many of TN defensive problems last season?
 
#82
#82
Biopsyman said:
I still think we lack elite speed in the secondary.
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Trey Burton and Frankie Hammond agree with this.

That being said, from an outside perspective, the secondary is going to be better for UT this year, it can't be worse. But if you look around the SEC, there are a ton of other players in the conference that you would take before you took players from UT's secondary. That's what should worry you.
 
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#83
#83
Depth at DB could be a problem. Go back and look at the last three or four recruiting classes and see how many of those DBs are left. Unreal.
 
#84
#84
Neyland Law Vol said:
Good Post. Thanks for that analysis. I assume this means that it was coaching - not talent - that caused many of TN defensive problems last season?
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I'm not saying that it's all coaching or that the players are elite but confused.

Because Byron Moore was at the center of the debate last night, I'll stay with him.

Moore originally committed to USC in 2009. Rivals ranked him as a 5.9 4 star. 6.1 is as high as it goes. His rivals page shows him with a 4.5 40. That's not an elite time for a corner, it's not a bad time for a safety, so to be rated that highly he must have/had some skills.

Now stay with me here. We all know that we were recruiting decent classes with Dooley, Kiffin too, not elite SEC classes, but we got some good players. Many of them left.

You don't need me to tell you that because Butch Jones is saying that.

If we had a roster full of corners he wouldn't be putting two freshmen out there, more importantly 9 of our 24 current commits are DB's and WR's. Thanks to Eddrick Loften, Ted Meline, Marques Dixon, Matt Milton, Naz Oliver, Darren Myles, Mike Edwards, Izzy Lanier, DeAnthony Arnett, Pat Martin, Deion Bonner, Daniel Gray...we don't have the depth we should have. While many of these guys may not have panned out anyway...you get the gist.

If I had to break down my thoughts on the defense last year...you can't play fast if you're having to think about where to go and what to do or worry that a team mate doesn't know where to go or know what to do. Couple that with a defensive front that got no rush on the QB and a new scheme, that politely, wasn't coached well at all, and you get what you got last season...break down after break down, MA's after MA's.

I don't know if we can win a track meet, but we can be much better than we were last year. At least, that's my hope.
 
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#85
#85
vol66 said:
First, I dislike Kiffin. I disliked the hire from the get go.

In 2008, with Arian Foster gaining 570 yards, 1 TD...Lennon Creer gaining 388, 4 TD's...Montario Hardesty gaining 271, 6TD's...

Crompton passing at a 51. 5 %, 5 INT's/4 TD's it's no wonder that people looked at the Kiffin year as a "drastic improvement".

In 2009 Hardesty would rush for 1413 yards and 13 TD's...Crompton would throw for 2800 yards 27, TD's and 13 INT's

Foster, Berry, Hardesty, Stocker, Bryce Brown, Denarious Moore, Tauren Poole, maybe a few others would eventually go pro.
Or
I'm not arguing that the last year under Fulmer and the "Clawfense" was a waste of talent...I'm saying that last year's defense, the players.... are probably not as bad as they looked.
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This is a good way of looking at things. If CBJ is half the coach Kiffin is he can have a solid season. Obviously there's no Crompton, Hardesty, Moore etc but there's an awesome OL and a potential decent defense.
 
#86
#86
All I want to see is effort through the ranks. I will gladly take the talent we have giving 100% and not slowing down, then a smattering of so called 4 and 5 stars that slow up when things start to go badly for them. We have had two much of the latter a year or two ago. (the slowing up, not the 4 and 5 stars..:p )
 
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#87
#87
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
All I want to see is effort through the ranks. I will gladly take the talent we have giving 100% and not slowing down, then a smattering of so called 4 and 5 stars that slow up when things start to go badly for them. We have had two much of the latter a year or two ago. (the slowing up, not the 4 and 5 starts..:p )
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In addition, I'd like them to look well coached. Know where to line up, know where to go, and everyone getting to the ball.

Something I left out in my other posts...A guy like Justin Coleman, he's had a different position coach every year he's been here. That doesn't help either.
 
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#88
#88
vol66 said:
Tennessee VOLS vs Florida GATORS 9/15/2012 - YouTube

Take 40 seconds and watch the first play. Trey Burton is the QB standing on the right hash, it's not likely to be a pass. Pause it as the defense gets settled. Note that Moore is covering the slot receiver, there is a safety in the middle of the field.

As the play unfolds, you see the farthest WR come in motion, he'll be the ball fake and the Lt. Corner ,Marsalis Teague is waving his arms and will leave, rotating to the middle. The safety also rotates...In all my years, I've never seen this. Teague crosses the right hash as the ball is snapped lol and now the entire defensive backfield is out of position. The full back gets a hat on AJ and now there is literally no one left to make the tackle. To make matters worse, once Teague realizes he's been fooled, he takes a bad angle.

At the snap of the ball we literally had four DB's on the right side of the football!

Of course Teague looks slow, he's taken himself out of the play before the snap, he takes a bad angle. It's like giving a guy a 10 yard head start.

When you hear a coach say, "We can't even get lined up right"...All year, this went on.
Click to expand...

Good break down. I'm sure there's a ton of examples just like this throughout the year. Embarrassing. I was helping a buddy of mine break down some tape on the middle school team he was coaching the other day. They looked more fundamentally sound than this. This is coaching folks, plain and simple.
 
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#89
#89
Come on guys, interceptions are somewhat trivial. It's not a statistically sound method for evaluating db's talent. Let's say Revis lined up at cb for us, he might go an entire year and not get thrown at.

It's also mainly just being in the lucky spot at the right time. What I'm saying isn't universal, but damn close.
 
#90
#90
Interceptions are deceiving because sometimes the quarterback just makes crappy throws that some of us could pick off. You kinda just have to be in the right place at the right time in some cases. I mean te'o had like 6 or 7 picks last year....
 
#91
#91
qwerty said:
Come on guys, interceptions are somewhat trivial. It's not a statistically sound method for evaluating db's talent. Let's say Revis lined up at cb for us, he might go an entire year and not get thrown at.

It's also mainly just being in the lucky spot at the right time. What I'm saying isn't universal, but damn close.
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That may be true but it's a part of a players production, like tackles, pass break ups, forced fumbles etc...while looking at a player's stats might not tell the whole story, it's better than just saying "he looks slow".

I've tried to list what might have been contributing factors in one player's performance.

I'll give it a go one last time.

Moore came in as a Juco in 2011. He played sparingly, mostly in nickel packages, getting only two starts.

He won the starting FS job in 2012. Brian Randolph got hurt in the 3rd game of the season, so Moore moved to SS. McNeil as a true frosh became the FS. Because Randolph is now healthy and McNeil has kept his starting job from last season doesn't mean that Moore isn't a good player as has been suggested. I forgot to add that if the competition between two players with similar experience is close, a coach is going to go with the younger player if he can. I don't know anything about the competition, but Moore is done after this season, in McNeil they have a player that will be around at least another season.

My recollection is that there was a revolving door at the cornerback position, on both sides, though I might be wrong. Prentiss Waggoner was really the only guy with much experience and how much does that experience really count, because he was in a new system...again.

The DL and LB's didn't get much pressure on the QB's and when they did, they were blitzing to do so, neither of which is particularly helpful to the DB's.

Mostly, it is clear that many players didn't know what they were doing and that opposing coaches could see it and take advantage.

Finally, I don't think folks understand the stress involved with the revolving coaches and systems. As a player, you don't know who to trust. The last coach said do it this way, new coach wants something different. It's a lot harder than most people think.
 
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#93
#93
vol66 said:
Tennessee VOLS vs Florida GATORS 9/15/2012 - YouTube

Take 40 seconds and watch the first play. Trey Burton is the QB standing on the right hash, it's not likely to be a pass. Pause it as the defense gets settled. Note that Moore is covering the slot receiver, there is a safety in the middle of the field.

As the play unfolds, you see the farthest WR come in motion, he'll be the ball fake and the Lt. Corner ,Marsalis Teague is waving his arms and will leave, rotating to the middle. The safety also rotates...In all my years, I've never seen this. Teague crosses the right hash as the ball is snapped lol and now the entire defensive backfield is out of position. The full back gets a hat on AJ and now there is literally no one left to make the tackle. To make matters worse, once Teague realizes he's been fooled, he takes a bad angle.

At the snap of the ball we literally had four DB's on the right side of the football!

Of course Teague looks slow, he's taken himself out of the play before the snap, he takes a bad angle. It's like giving a guy a 10 yard head start.

When you hear a coach say, "We can't even get lined up right"...All year, this went on.
Click to expand...

I remember this as well..All year.....If they stuck with the 4-3 we might have had 3 more wins which also means that we still would have the "Nazi"* Shower Sheriff as our coach






*CDD press conference
 
#94
#94
vollygirl said:
I'm not saying it isn't/hasn't happened. I just haven't seen it.

I love Coach Jones the work he's put in, and I love the work the players have put in. I feel great about where our program is, and where it's going.

When we play a game, and when I see things have actually turned the corner, then I'll feel good. Until then, I'm afraid of getting my heart broken again.
Click to expand...

Reclassified as Tentative Tina rather than Debbie Downer.
 
#96
#96
No one returning in the SEC intercepted more passes last year than Byron Moore. His productivity really dropped off after Randolph's injury.
 
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