If holly really love lady vols she need to step down!!

[Coach Jumper]

Let me ask you guys a hypothetical - you have a 1st time head coach that has averaged 27 wins her first four years and has gone to the Elite Eight in 2013, 2015, 2016 and Sweet Sixteen in 2014. Also in each of those years going into post season play, she made the Elite Eight and Sweet Sixteen runs without a key starter, primarily her point guard or post player and while the team has lost two road games this season, they are only playing with 4 bench players (one freshman post, one stretch four and two guards) but she has the number one signed recruiting class (4 players - one PG, one SG, one P and one Wing) coming in the Fall of 2017 ... based on this information would you fire that coach? I know some of you will say yes because you know the above information is Holly Warlick's record, but if you are honest with yourself, you know the answer is NO. You might not like Holly but you are comparing her to a person most of you watched win 8 national championships. Just remember, it was in Pat Summit's 13th season that she won her FIRST national championship, before that she had the label of not being able to win the big game.

... There was a poll of writers across the nation that had concluded the same thing when they put the team out at #4 last year. They wouldn't have ranked us that high unless we were seen as that type of threat based purely on talent and program.

 

[T_Vol376]

Let me ask you guys a hypothetical - you have a 1st time head coach that has averaged 27 wins her first four years and has gone to the Elite Eight in 2013, 2015, 2016 and Sweet Sixteen in 2014. Also in each of those years going into post season play, she made the Elite Eight and Sweet Sixteen runs without a key starter, primarily her point guard or post player and while the team has lost two road games this season, they are only playing with 4 bench players (one freshman post, one stretch four and two guards) but she has the number one signed recruiting class (4 players - one PG, one SG, one P and one Wing) coming in the Fall of 2017 ... based on this information would you fire that coach? I know some of you will say yes because you know the above information is Holly Warlick's record, but if you are honest with yourself, you know the answer is NO. You might not like Holly but you are comparing her to a person most of you watched win 8 national championships. Just remember, it was in Pat Summit's 13th season that she won her FIRST national championship, before that she had the label of not being able to win the big game.

This....exactly....but you'll never win this argument because....you know..."the program was already built and established." **insert eyeroll**

 

[Amb3096]

This....exactly....but you'll never win this argument because....you know..."the program was already built and established." **insert eyeroll**

Is that a joke? Do you really not see the difference between building a program from nothing like Pat did vs. inheriting a fully stocked program? Eyeroll indeed...

 

[DR2]

Okay, so how should lady vols respond to their frustrations? It is true that *****ing and moaning does not change anything but neither does saying " give Holly time" or "we are stuck with her so let's just go with the flow"; or any other response in between. Fan boards don't have a lot of effect other than letting fans express their feelings (whether good or bad). So there is something you don't like about this and presumably other fan boards but it is not clear what it is?

So, what is the "right" way you would like to see?

Fans are fans,so any response is okay as long as it doesn't stupidly, viciously, and unfairly rip players, who after all, are not being paid to go out on the floor, unless you echo some of the dumb stuff spouted on certain boards that players are open to any attack because they get a "free education," ignoring the crushing work load they bear from practices, travel, and schoolwork. They are out there usually giving the best with what they've been handed, which isn't always a whole lot it seems on X's and O's.

Coaches are a different matter because at least the HC is being decently paid. Frustrations sure, but what does constantly flinging the turdballs at Holly really do except expel some gas? Is there an iota of a chance that UT would can her outside of maybe a losing season, and even then with the top recruits coming in? And would any fan hope that their team sank to a losing season just to get a coach fired? Seems like an ugly way to "support" a team, though obviously in the NBA the fans of the bottom teams are always cheering the losses to get the lottery picks.

All things must pass and Holly eventually will too, but until she does it shouldn't be criminal to give attention to some of the better things the LVs develop and that can get them again to an E8 game, and from there anything can happen. I get that predicting horrible outcomes before each game even if it is Tennessee State is a reverse-charm morale shield against that horrible outcome, but I'm thinking that if Pat were around today, she would not only be chewing out some players and coaches but also cracking some clipboards over the skulls of some whiny fans.

 

[volman128]

This....exactly....but you'll never win this argument because....you know..."the program was already built and established." **insert eyeroll**

Why are you rolling your eyes at common sense and basic logic?

 

[alexvol]

Why are you rolling your eyes at common sense and basic logic?[/QUOT

Those rolling their eyes know very little about how Pat Summitt built the program ....or they are simply ignoring the facts.

 

[Rickster]

Let me ask you guys a hypothetical - you have a 1st time head coach that has averaged 27 wins her first four years and has gone to the Elite Eight in 2013, 2015, 2016 and Sweet Sixteen in 2014. Also in each of those years going into post season play, she made the Elite Eight and Sweet Sixteen runs without a key starter, primarily her point guard or post player and while the team has lost two road games this season, they are only playing with 4 bench players (one freshman post, one stretch four and two guards) but she has the number one signed recruiting class (4 players - one PG, one SG, one P and one Wing) coming in the Fall of 2017 ... based on this information would you fire that coach?

No, I would not.

 

[kvol1987]

Is that a joke? Do you really not see the difference between building a program from nothing like Pat did vs. inheriting a fully stocked program? Eyeroll indeed...

Everyone knows what Pat did! What you are missing Amb is that any coach that followed Pat would inherit the kingdom so why can't Holly be the benefactor just like anyone else. The problem is that everyone wanted a search for a "big name coach" and instead the job was "given" to Holly and all our back seat coaches are too impatient to wait for the process to happen. But you didn't answer the question I asked ... looking only at the facts, would you not hire a coach with a 4 year average of 27 win, 3 elite eights, 1 sweet sixteen and a #1 rank recruiting class of 4 talented ladies? Most would consider that a top notch coach on the brink of a break through.

And I only mentioned it took Pat 13 years to win her first championship, not to compare Holly to Pat, but to remind everyone that even with great talent it takes time to build the right team to win it all and Holly is complete only 4 years. With this recruiting class for 2017 she is only now starting to build her own legacy and stepping out of the shadow of Pat. Out of this group of 9 current players only Diamond actually knew Pat.

 

[gule]

Okay, Okay, I'll climb back on the Don't Fire Holly bandwagon. But, she better beat Baylor. lol

 

[alexvol]

Holly will not be fired but she may be retired by the new Athletic Director next summer if that AD is David Blackburn.

 

[Amb3096]

Everyone knows what Pat did! What you are missing Amb is that any coach that followed Pat would inherit the kingdom so why can't Holly be the benefactor just like anyone else. The problem is that everyone wanted a search for a "big name coach" and instead the job was "given" to Holly and all our back seat coaches are too impatient to wait for the process to happen. But you didn't answer the question I asked ... looking only at the facts, would you not hire a coach with a 4 year average of 27 win, 3 elite eights, 1 sweet sixteen and a #1 rank recruiting class of 4 talented ladies? Most would consider that a top notch coach on the brink of a break through.

And I only mentioned it took Pat 13 years to win her first championship, not to compare Holly to Pat, but to remind everyone that even with great talent it takes time to build the right team to win it all and Holly is only in her 4th year. With this recruiting class for 2017 she is only now starting to build her legacy and stepping out of the shadow of Pat. Out of this group of 9 only Diamond actually knew Pat.

For clarification, the post you replied to was not directed to you, but to the person who replied to my original comment to you.

When Holly was hired, I didn't really see a problem with the pick. She was an All-American player, Pat's longtime assistant, and was loyal to the program. I 100% believed that she deserved to be chosen, even if there were better "big name" coaches out there. Besides, she was inheriting a fully stocked roster and with Pat stepping down, there was no longer the turmoil associated with her worsening condition while she was on the sideline. I was still in her corner after her first couple of seasons when Tennessee was still a consensus Top 4 program for the most part, even with the odd loss to the likes of UTC.

Last season, she had her most talented roster since she became HC and without the stabilizing influence of the last group of players coached by Pat (Ariel, Cierra and Izzy), the wheels completely came off and the team looked horrible from beginning to end. They had the most losses in school history, they lost to teams they've never lost to before, finished their lowest in the SEC standings, and fell out of the rankings for the first time in God knows how long. Give that roster to any other coach in the Top 25, and they would have had significantly better results. I firmly believed that she was out of her league and was not the right person to keep Tennessee in the upper echelon of the sport. We heard her talk about how chemistry has improved, players improved over the summer, yadda yadda yadda...but they come out and lose 2 games to unranked, unheralded teams looking exactly the same as they did last year.

So in spite of the fact that she signed the #1 class, I still think a new coach is in order. I think it's unrealistic to think those 4 freshmen will come in and turn the program around, given the fact that Holly started 5 McD AA's (including a #1 ranked recruit and the NFOY transfer) against lowly PSU and VT and still managed to lose. After the projected losses to Baylor and Texas, they will likely drop out of the rankings for good for the rest of the season. Although this team is less talented than last year's version, I expected that they would perform better even if they wouldn't necessarily be a Top 10 team. Clearly, I was wrong, and from the way they have started off (and given Holly's track record as a coach), I expect that they will eclipse all of the records they established last season.

 

[Orange Maniac]

I'm not saying keep Holly or fire her. I just want to know from the people that want her gone, who do you want hired as her replacement. Don't say Mulkey as her buyout is too high and contract is too long. I don't see any so called "big name" coaches out there looking to make a move. It looks like that would leave you with an up and comer. Who? That would be taking a chance like football did. You may make a homerun hire or you may get a Dooley. I would really like to hear some names instead of just fahr Holly.

 

[Amb3096]

I'm not saying keep Holly or fire her. I just want to know from the people that want her gone, who do you want hired as her replacement. Don't say Mulkey as her buyout is too high and contract is too long. I don't see any so called "big name" coaches out there looking to make a move. It looks like that would leave you with an up and comer. Who? That would be taking a chance like football did. You may make a homerun hire or you may get a Dooley. I would really like to hear some names instead of just fahr Holly.

I'm not even advocating for one of the elite coaches like a Geno, Kim, Muffet, Tara, etc... I don't question Holly's credentials as a candidate for head coach, just her results. The Tennessee program needs new blood and they need someone that can come in and bring the on-court play to the year 2016 (or even 2009 would be nice). The whole "throw it in the middle and play volleyball until you put the ball in the basket" just doesn't do it when you see coaches who can draw up plays that emphasize ball/player movement, teamwork and fundamental skills vs. relying on the fact that you are taller and more athletic than your opponents.

Somewhere, there is a coach similar to who Dawn Staley was when she took over at SC. That's who they should be looking for. Someone who had experience at a "lesser" school but had success in recruiting players to come there and making their program better. Maybe someone like Kim won't leave, but there are plenty of other coaches in the Top 25 ranks from the non-elite schools that would kill for the chance to take over the helm at Tennessee and frankly, could do a better job than what Holly has done given the program that she inherited.

 

[Orange Maniac]

I'm not even advocating for one of the elite coaches like a Geno, Kim, Muffet, Tara, etc... I don't question Holly's credentials as a candidate for head coach, just her results. The Tennessee program needs new blood and they need someone that can come in and bring the on-court play to the year 2016 (or even 2009 would be nice). The whole "throw it in the middle and play volleyball until you put the ball in the basket" just doesn't do it when you see coaches who can draw up plays that emphasize ball/player movement, teamwork and fundamental skills vs. relying on the fact that you are taller and more athletic than your opponents.

Somewhere, there is a coach similar to who Dawn Staley was when she took over at SC. That's who they should be looking for. Someone who had experience at a "lesser" school but had success in recruiting players to come there and making their program better. Maybe someone like Kim won't leave, but there are plenty of other coaches in the Top 25 ranks from the non-elite schools that would kill for the chance to take over the helm at Tennessee and frankly, could do a better job than what Holly has done given the program that she inherited.

Everybody keeps saying this but I still don't see anyone named. I want names not "some coach" has to be out there. I want some specifics, not hypothetical double talk. I want names that we can research and discuss, not someone, somewhere, which is all we ever get. Not picking on you, but it's always the same from people on the board.

 

[Amb3096]

Everybody keeps saying this but I still don't see anyone named. I want names not "some coach" has to be out there. I want some specifics, not hypothetical double talk. I want names that we can research and discuss, not someone, somewhere, which is all we ever get. Not picking on you, but it's always the same from people on the board.

Not that the opinion on this board means a lick, but like I said, there's no shortage. I'm happy to give my list, for all that it matters.

Scott Rueck at Oregon State
Jose Fernandez at South Florida
Matthew Mitchell at Kentucky
Mike Carey at West Virginia
Quentin Hillsman at Syracuse
Katie Meier at Univ. Miami
Charli Turner Thorne at Arizona State

That's just a few and by no means a comprehensive list. All of them have shown they can do more with less.

 

[LVJeff]

Everybody keeps saying this but I still don't see anyone named. I want names not "some coach" has to be out there. I want some specifics, not hypothetical double talk. I want names that we can research and discuss, not someone, somewhere, which is all we ever get. Not picking on you, but it's always the same from people on the board.

Bunky Harkleroad.

There, you've got a name.

Bunky Harkleroad - Sacramento State Athletics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_women's_basketball_coaches

 

[mcannon1]

Becky Hammon

 

[gule]

tyler summitt

 

[LVJeff]

Not that the opinion on this board means a lick, but like I said, there's no shortage. I'm happy to give my list, for all that it matters.

Scott Rueck at Oregon State
Jose Fernandez at South Florida
Matthew Mitchell at Kentucky
Mike Carey at West Virginia
Quentin Hillsman at Syracuse
Katie Meier at Univ. Miami
Charli Turner Thorne at Arizona State

That's just a few and by no means a comprehensive list. All of them have shown they can do more with less.

Not trying to start a separate discussion, but...Mike Carey??? Really? He of the perpetually constipated scowl. His claim to fame is his statement that the Parker-led Lady Vols couldn't have defeated UConn in either of Parker's title seasons.

How many times has a Mike Carey led team advanced past the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament? Zero.

How many times has a Mike Carey led team failed to make the NCAA tournament at all? 19 times.

He'll be 59 years old his next birthday. I'm not trying to be ageist but whenever a new coach comes on board, I hope they are less than 40 years old.

 

[gule]

heh, I'd shoot somebody to be 59 again,

 

[Amb3096]

Not trying to start a separate discussion, but...Mike Carey??? Really? He of the perpetually constipated scowl. His claim to fame is his statement that the Parker-led Lady Vols couldn't have defeated UConn in either of Parker's title seasons.

How many times has a Mike Carey led team advanced past the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament? Zero.

How many times has a Mike Carey led team failed to make the NCAA tournament at all? 19 times.

He'll be 59 years old his next birthday. I'm not trying to be ageist but whenever a new coach comes on board, I hope they are less than 40 years old.

Under 40 may be tough. I think an experienced coach would be better.

In Carey's defense, he has kept WVA as a perpetual Top 25 team working with a whole lot less talent than Holly has, and without the Tennessee brand name. I also wouldn't hold many of his NCAA absences against him when he was coaching for a no name team. His winning percentage there was pretty good, but it's hard for small conferences to get more than one team into the NCAAT.

 

[mike099]

tyler summitt

I should have known someone would go there.:dance2:

 

[alexvol]

The Chattanooga Coach who the next UT AD hired as Women's BB Coach and has beaten the Current Lady Vols Coach while at Chattanooga.He is a good X's and O;s Coach and probably one of the best " Bigs " coaches in the country ( he proved that in previous stints at Vandy and Ohio State )

 

[T_Vol376]

Everyone knows what Pat did! What you are missing Amb is that any coach that followed Pat would inherit the kingdom so why can't Holly be the benefactor just like anyone else. The problem is that everyone wanted a search for a "big name coach" and instead the job was "given" to Holly and all our back seat coaches are too impatient to wait for the process to happen. But you didn't answer the question I asked ... looking only at the facts, would you not hire a coach with a 4 year average of 27 win, 3 elite eights, 1 sweet sixteen and a #1 rank recruiting class of 4 talented ladies? Most would consider that a top notch coach on the brink of a break through.

And I only mentioned it took Pat 13 years to win her first championship, not to compare Holly to Pat, but to remind everyone that even with great talent it takes time to build the right team to win it all and Holly is complete only 4 years. With this recruiting class for 2017 she is only now starting to build her own legacy and stepping out of the shadow of Pat. Out of this group of 9 current players only Diamond actually knew Pat.

What was kvol1987 said in this post is why I inserted the eyeroll - in retrospect, probably not the best choice for a gesture, because I certainty meant no disrespect to Pat Summitt - in fact, quite the opposite.

I DO realize Pat built the program from absolutely NOTHING. Yes, Holly walked into a dynasty - a brand built from the ground up by a legend - an irreplaceable legend. My point is that Holly is dealing with one monumental challenge that Pat didn't - following in her footsteps!

As kvol1987 said, Holly is only now beginning to step out of Pat's shadow. On top of establishing herself as a head coach, dealing with injuries and internal issues, do any of you realize or even care what it's been like for Holly to witness the decline and subsequent death of her mentor and best friend to such a horrific disease?

I think, as kvol said, if any other coach has accumulated Holly's stats, they would be praised and encouraged and considered on the brink of an breakthrough. The game has elevated tremendously in many ways since Pat Summitt started out - BECAUSE of Pat Summitt. Teams recruit better, hire better coaches, because of what Pat built.

I know how Pat built the program, I know what an impact she had on the game. l know it's upsetting to diehard longtime Lady Vol fans to see them playing like they've been playing. You don't know what issues are going on behind the scenes and how they are being handled. Most of all, you don't know what it's like to walk in Holly's shoes. She's the only person on earth who knows what it's like to try to fill the shoes of Pat Summitt.

I don't have any business posting on here.

Peace out and God bless...

 

[mcannon1]

Because we so dearly love Pat and the program she built we can not help but express our displeasure and great disappointment in seeing it become a laughingstock to UCONN fans and their coach. The players Holly inherited hould have been final four every year.