If holly really love lady vols she need to step down!!

[alexvol]

This seems to me the crux of the issue. Even if all of these players have been rated correctly, very few, if any, will be immediate stars and some/many/most? may not even contribute significantly to the program during the first half year or year after they arrive. All of us know that playing in college is not the same as playing in high school or on the AAU circuit, but it's easy to forget that and designate player A or player B as a "savior" who will quickly turn everything around once she arrives on campus.

Take last year's #1, for example: Lauren Cox is hardly setting the world on fire at Baylor, at least in the games I've watched. That doesn't necessarily mean she was overrated but it does mean that she has a lot to learn to succeed at the college level, and (in this case) it's Mulkey's job to help her do just that. The same was true of Brianna Stewart, who really didn't become the star everyone predicted/expected until the NCAA Tournament her freshman year and then only after being pushed mercilessly by Auriemma (there are videos of this).

Others--maybe Russell and DeShields fit that category or Elizabeth Williams when she was at Duke--never get where expectations predict they should be. That can of course be the fault of the player, but more often (I think) it's equally (or more) the fault of the coaching that's not there. And that's what seems to me to be the major shortcoming of the Lady Vols staff (and not just Holly): they don't seem to be able to help players improve and learn what they need to learn to fulfill whatever potential they may have. And that leads in turn to one disappointing class after another no matter how highly the players are ranked by the various recruiting services.

Your comment about Stewart and Auriemma illustrate perfectly a coach who understands the development needed to play at the College level against great competition and is precisely why these 5 star players at UT now are being classified as over rated ......there has been little development by all the Lady Vol coaches and guess what the Head Coach has complete responsibility for the development !!!!

 

[Amb3096]

My agreement with UTLadyVolsFan's post was aimed solely at DD and whether or not she is ultimately good for the team in the big picture (never a doubt that she is the most talented LV). It had nothing to do with other current players or future recruits.

Read again the following article from Oct 22: No stopping optimism of Tennessee's DeShields

Quotes like: “There’s no second-guessing, no hesitation,” the Lady Vols guard said. “I feel like I’ll be the best player on the floor, no matter who we’re playing.”

...or...

“I went from knowing I was the best player on the floor all my life, knowing there’s not a defender on the opposing team that can stop me, to my physical condition holding me back,”

It seems like being perceived as "the best player" is very important to her psyche, and when she isn't performing to that level (which is often), you see it in her floor and bench disposition.

Turnovers and shot selection betray her as not even close to the best player in the game on some (most?) nights. And it's a shame - because she truly has a great abundance of amazing basketball ability.

I understand that. I'm speaking from the context of how the evaluation of Diamond fits in with the players that have come before her, those she's playing with now, and those that will follow her. I'm sure that it's easy to look at her and say that she's not living up to her hype, but then one starts to forgive her when you see that none of the most recent players or current players lived up to the hype either. That's why I'm giving her the benefit of a doubt and see Holly and her poor coaching as the culprit instead of placing the blame on Diamond (or the other players).

 

[Amb3096]

This seems to me the crux of the issue. Even if all of these players have been rated correctly, very few, if any, will be immediate stars and some/many/most? may not even contribute significantly to the program during the first half year or year after they arrive. All of us know that playing in college is not the same as playing in high school or on the AAU circuit, but it's easy to forget that and designate player A or player B as a "savior" who will quickly turn everything around once she arrives on campus.

After Tennessee's last NC win, they brought in the following class which was rated #1:

#3 Glory Johnson (AA)
#4 Amber Gray (AA)
#8 Shekinna Stricklen (AA)
#15 Alicia Manning (AA)
#20 Alyssia Brewer (AA)

Those 5 highly decorated HS players joined a roster that included:

#2 Angie Bjorklund (AA)
#4 Alex Fuller (AA)
#5 Vicki Baugh (AA)
Top 20 Kelly Cain (AA)

That team with 9 Top 20 (6 Top 10) McD AA flamed out in the first round of the NCAA tournament and was regarded as the worst team in Tennessee recent history until last year's disaster. Most of those players ended up being pretty good, with the exception of Gray who transferred for medical reasons. But it took time for them to get acclimated to the college game.

Those 4 freshmen coming in next year aren't going to turn the program around overnight. It will probably take at least a season. People that are expecting them to be a FF team, especially if Diamond leaves this year, may find themselves quite disappointed when they look pretty much the same as the current team because at the end of the day, they are still being coached by Holly.

 

[clkou]

Your comment about Stewart and Auriemma illustrate perfectly a coach who understands the development needed to play at the College level against great competition and is precisely why these 5 star players at UT now are being classified as over rated ......there has been little development by all the Lady Vol coaches and guess what the Head Coach has complete responsibility for the development !!!!

Also it's worth noting that Freshman didn't play a prominent role for the Lady Vols until after Parker and that loaded class graduated. Since then it's like we're LOOKING for Freshman to come in and save us. That's obviously a recipe for failure.

 

[Amb3096]

Also it's worth noting that Freshman didn't play a prominent role for the Lady Vols until after Parker and that loaded class graduated. Since then it's like we're LOOKING for Freshman to come in and save us. That's obviously a recipe for failure.

There have been a lot of freshmen who have come in that played prominent roles for the LVs.

Chamique Holdsclaw
Kyra Elzy
Tamika Catchings
Semeka Randall
Teresa Geter
Michelle Snow
Ashley Robinson
Kara Lawson
Gwen Jackson
Shyra Ely
Loree Moore
Alexis Hornbuckle
Nicky Anosike

I think the difference between this group and the ones that followed was that each of those teams had a legit star on the team (I put Kara Lawson in that category). The ones that have followed have not, so it was a collection of very good players missing someone who could take over a game. And of course, the difference between being coached by Pat vs. Holly.

 

[armchair]

This seems to me the crux of the issue. Even if all of these players have been rated correctly, very few, if any, will be immediate stars and some/many/most? may not even contribute significantly to the program during the first half year or year after they arrive. All of us know that playing in college is not the same as playing in high school or on the AAU circuit, but it's easy to forget that and designate player A or player B as a "savior" who will quickly turn everything around once she arrives on campus.

Take last year's #1, for example: Lauren Cox is hardly setting the world on fire at Baylor, at least in the games I've watched. That doesn't necessarily mean she was overrated but it does mean that she has a lot to learn to succeed at the college level, and (in this case) it's Mulkey's job to help her do just that. The same was true of Brianna Stewart, who really didn't become the star everyone predicted/expected until the NCAA Tournament her freshman year and then only after being pushed mercilessly by Auriemma (there are videos of this).

Others--maybe Russell and DeShields fit that category or Elizabeth Williams when she was at Duke--never get where expectations predict they should be. That can of course be the fault of the player, but more often (I think) it's equally (or more) the fault of the coaching that's not there. And that's what seems to me to be the major shortcoming of the Lady Vols staff (and not just Holly): they don't seem to be able to help players improve and learn what they need to learn to fulfill whatever potential they may have. And that leads in turn to one disappointing class after another no matter how highly the players are ranked by the various recruiting services.

that surely separate a coach like Geno from a coach like Warlick: "Push mercilessly." The great coaches push players, and the team, to get better, to do the little things....and after pushing, they push again, and then again, and again. And that is how raw players fulfill their potential, and how teams truly get better. You push, you demand, and if the player doesn't want to push herself, you sit her...The players who want to be exceptional, and win, will respond. Warlick has always been a players' coach at heart--that was her role for a long time at UT; she was the bench cheerleader, the team counselor. It's hard to make the jump to demanding head coach when you've never done it. I think she tries, but I'm not sure the players respect her totally. When you are talking about motivation and effort as much as Warlick does--EVERY YEAR--you've got a serious problem.

Which brings up another point: Build the freakin' roster. We are a premier program and yet we have no freakin' depth. For a long time we had, what, 10-11-player rosters. We should have 13+ players, and they should be fighting for playing time. We should have a bigger roster. Good players will stay on teams, even in a reserve role, if they believe the team is good and has a chance to be special. And the can be giving more PT if other players are lackadaisical and don't like being pushed. We're a 3/4 program--3/4 coaching, 3/4 effort, 3/4 attention to fundamentals and details, 3/4 of a good basketball IQ. Three-quarters doesn't cut it. It's why we lose.

 

[Ladyvol777]

Tennessee biggest problem is speed at the point when Holly knew they Te'a was injured she should tried to pick up a player from the junior collage that had speed or ask for school tryout. I still believe this team will win over 20 games this year.

 

[NoBackBoard]

I'm not a fan of Holly but I have seen this team work the offense well and then get a open shot and throw up a brick. I've also seen them stand around to long and have to hurry just to get a forced shot. I think the players are to blame and so is Holly. I don't think many of these players are very good shooters and against Va. Tech we missed at least seven or eight easy layups that anyone with two hands could make.

With Pat, we would have bad games, too. I remember the year we were blown out by Duke early in the regular season then beat them in the FF. The thing with Holly is that bad, ugly games are becoming the norm, not the exception. That's scary to longtime fans like myself because it points to a PATTERN...

 

[Amb3096]

Tennessee biggest problem is speed at the point when Holly knew they Te'a was injured she should tried to pick up a player from the junior collage that had speed or ask for school tryout. I still believe this team will win over 20 games this year.

I doubt that a walk-on would be an improvement over Jordan or Alexa. Besides, Te'a wasn't even that good last year. She couldn't beat out Reynolds or Carter for the starting guard spot, and it would be generous to say that those two are average players. On defense, Te'a was worst than Alexa because she guarded with her hands, not her feet.

It would be helpful if they had someone on staff that could teach defense fundamentals instead of expecting the players to just be faster than the other players.

 

[BMvol27]

I'm laugh at the great expectation expressed on here of one more player coming down that OREGON PIPELINE. I guess that is based on the success of the previous three.

They'd be having plenty of success if they had competent coaching.

 

[PineyBluff Vol]

No. You just have a different opinion than I do. We can do that without disparaging each other. :thumbsup:

Delusion

A delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.

"false or incomplete information" correct me if I am wrong!

 

[armchair]

".....that bad, ugly games are becoming the norm..."

Bad, ugly games were the norm when PS was coaching--especially the last 5+ years. For all her accomplishments, PS could not coach team offense. We were a very ugly offensive team--poor passing, poor shooting, bad assist/turnover ratio--for many, many years--I know, because I've been complaining about it for /at least 10 years/! But we still won, mostly because we had more size and basic athleticism than our opponents. Then geno showed basically that we weren't all that well coached--that it's not enough to just play defense and shoot 30 percent. He could coach up a defense like PS and was a much better offensive coach--much better ball movement, passing, scoring efficiency. That is why he was 4-0 against PS and UT, I believe, in national title games.

Under Warlick we have the exact same offensive problems--and more! We don't win now because more teams have more talent than 20 years ago--there is lots more parity, and most teams are pretty well coached. On a scale of 1-10, I'd give our coaching staff a 4. You can't play ugly and win nowadays like PS did 15+ years ago when we beat Rutgers in a (terrible) national title game by a score of 50-43 or somesuch. Worse, we don't play defense like we did in our salad days--partly because there are lots more good offensive players, better shooting, and better coaching--and because we just don't have the athleticism and intensity at the guard position that we used to have. Our perimeter defense is not good. If you have one or two guards who have a tendency to be lackadaisical or lack quickness, the whole defense breaks down. But it all starts at the top.

 

[djtee]

Tennessee biggest problem is speed at the point when Holly knew they Te'a was injured she should tried to pick up a player from the junior collage that had speed or ask for school tryout. I still believe this team will win over 20 games this year.

That`s my point and there was no excuse coming up empty in recruiting.

 

[stubbs9]

Te'a is definetly better than Reynolds. She led us in scoring a lot of games and she hustles. She is missed this year.

 

[gule]

I wonder if trying to protect that 100% graduation rate is messing up the LV's? it's the only pride thing they have left so I don't think Holly is looking at players in the basketball sense as much as the student sense. She definitely should be looking for faster players.

 

[DR2]

That team with 9 Top 20 (6 Top 10) McD AA flamed out in the first round of the NCAA tournament and was regarded as the worst team in Tennessee recent history until last year's disaster.

So how do we define "disaster"? the 2008-09 team with all that talent that lost 11 games and then got a beat-down from Ball State in the first round of the Tourney -- yes, that has to be considered a disaster based on double-digit losses and the Tourney result.

But though every coach of a power program cares about the regular season, the main purpose is to use it for development for a long run in the Tourney. Sure, last season had 14 losses, many of them pretty ugly, but the Tourney result was certainly not a total disaster. Six of Pat's teams from 1982 on did not reach the Elite 8, and except possibly for 2009 I don't think any of them were considered disasters, even if the final result was bitter.

So we shouldn't paint everything too darkly and demean the final achievements of last year's squad, even if they aren't what is hoped for. There were 341 D1 teams that did not reach the Elite 8 last year, and for all their swagger during the regular season prior to last March, the Gamecocks were sitting at home when the Vols were still playing.

 

[djtee]

I doubt that a walk-on would be an improvement over Jordan or Alexa. Besides, Te'a wasn't even that good last year. She couldn't beat out Reynolds or Carter for the starting guard spot, and it would be generous to say that those two are average players. On defense, Te'a was worst than Alexa because she guarded with her hands, not her feet.

It would be helpful if they had someone on staff that could teach defense fundamentals instead of expecting the players to just be faster than the other players.

why not ! https://prospectsnation.com/story/ekhelar-set-transfer

 

[Amb3096]

So how do we define "disaster"? the 2008-09 team with all that talent that lost 11 games and then got a beat-down from Ball State in the first round of the Tourney -- yes, that has to be considered a disaster based on double-digit losses and the Tourney result.

But though every coach of a power program cares about the regular season, the main purpose is to use it for development for a long run in the Tourney. Sure, last season had 14 losses, many of them pretty ugly, but the Tourney result was certainly not a total disaster. Six of Pat's teams from 1982 on did not reach the Elite 8, and except possibly for 2009 I don't think any of them were considered disasters, even if the final result was bitter.

So we shouldn't paint everything too darkly and demean the final achievements of last year's squad, even if they aren't what is hoped for. There were 341 D1 teams that did not reach the Elite 8 last year, and for all their swagger during the regular season prior to last March, the Gamecocks were sitting at home when the Vols were still playing.

You're a UConn fan right? Would you be happy if instead of another undefeated season last year, they lost 14 games...many to teams nowhere close to them in talent level, dropped out of the rankings, barely made the tournament, then got blown off the court by yet another team with inferior talent that already pulled off a major upset? Or would you say, "Oh, that's ok. We made it one round further than ND!". Of course not. You'd be wondering how a team with so much talent underachieved all year when they should have been a contender for the NC.

Let's not pretend all those losses to unranked and lesser teams didn't hurt Tennessee against Syracuse. They weren't afraid of the name on the jersey, and played like they were the ones who belong there, not Tennessee. And we're now seeing the continuation of that mentality when teams like PSU and VT come on the court believing they are the better team. They've lost their swagger and the fear factor because no one is afraid of Tennessee anymore, no matter how many HS AAs are on the team.

 

[Amb3096]

why not ! https://prospectsnation.com/story/ekhelar-set-transfer

A transfer from a power conference would be one thing, but I don't think there have ever been any walk ons for semi decent teams, save the blonde shooting guard at Vandy like ten years ago.

 

[djtee]

A transfer from a power conference would be one thing, but I don't think there have ever been any walk ons for semi decent teams, save the blonde shooting guard at Vandy like ten years ago.

i was just throwing this out there because she hit the transfer wire after Russell we have no post.

 

[Amb3096]

i was just throwing this out there because she hit the transfer wire after Russell we have no post.

We have Schaquila and Kamara. I think both would be better than any walk on they could find walking around the UT campus.

 

[T.J.]

We have Schaquila and Kamara. I think both would be better than any walk on they could find walking around the UT campus.

Holly is showing that she does not know how to develop players. Shaquilla started off the season now she's coming off the bench in limited minutes. Kamara plays very limited minutes.

All games were against competition that were supposedly at a lower level of play for the Lady Vols. But, Holly refused to give both players time on the court to get their game in shape. Instead, she sits them on the bench.

Holly made a short roster even shorter by not playing two post players. IF they were good enough to recruit than they are good enough to be on the court. They need to be coached by some one that knows what they are doing.

 

[clkou]

Holly is showing that she does not know how to develop players. Shaquilla started off the season now she's coming off the bench in limited minutes. Kamara plays very limited minutes.

All games were against competition that were supposedly at a lower level of play for the Lady Vols. But, Holly refused to give both players time on the court to get their game in shape. Instead, she sits them on the bench.

Holly made a short roster even shorter by not playing two post players. IF they were good enough to recruit than they are good enough to be on the court. They need to be coached by some one that knows what they are doing.

It's funny because I don't trust the coaching staff regarding anything except their ability to get decent players. I don't trust they start the best players or use the best rotation. Anyone with eyes, a pulse, and a middle school level of understanding of basketball should be able to see they can't be trusted developing or implementing offenses and defenses. They also can't develop players.

I just don't get how such a top tier program got stuck with such mediocrity.

 

[Amb3096]

Holly is showing that she does not know how to develop players. Shaquilla started off the season now she's coming off the bench in limited minutes. Kamara plays very limited minutes.

All games were against competition that were supposedly at a lower level of play for the Lady Vols. But, Holly refused to give both players time on the court to get their game in shape. Instead, she sits them on the bench.

Holly made a short roster even shorter by not playing two post players. IF they were good enough to recruit than they are good enough to be on the court. They need to be coached by some one that knows what they are doing.

I've said that since the beginning of the season. Baylor has 4 posts 6'3+ they can throw at Russell. Holly will have to play one or both of her bench posts. It will be like how she will trot out Kortney with under 5 min to go and Tennessee down by double digits and expect her to light it up when she's been sitting at the end of the bench for a month.

 

[djtee]

We have Schaquila and Kamara. I think both would be better than any walk on they could find walking around the UT campus.

oh what the hell she is a transfer will need to sit out a year we will need a backup post player.