If you aren't excited about where this program is going

#51
#51
Aesius said:
In-game coaching was his problem? How'd you come up with that?

If anything, it seems like the expectation around here was the opposite. Coaching was solid, but recruiting was suspect. And obviously, he's knocked it out of the park with the latter.
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agreed - i think he is confusing CBJ with the other big east coach we almost hired - Strong - there were some on here, myself one of them that were very worried about Strong's in game coaching but knew he would knock it out of the park in recruiting

recruiting was a ? mark for CBJ coming in as he hadnt recruited well at Cincy - noone recruits well at Cincy but it was still a valid concern

i don't think even the most optimistic CBJ fan thought he would have the #4 class in the country right now so there is definitely a lot to be excited about

he cant win a game in April so other than that he has done about everything you could hope at this point in time
 
#52
#52
Volstate said:
Words are words. I'm not easily steered one way of the other by propaganda. Sure, I hope the program under Butch Jones flourishes but until the man proves he can do more than tweet and make inspirational speeches I'm not going to preach to the rest of VolNation to be "excited". When he beats bama...I'll be excited. When he beats a Florida or LSU...I'll be excited. Until then, I'll not buy in to the rhetoric spewed by the athletic department to get you to go by T-Shirts and tickets. Results on the field will get me excited...and like all of you I hope that happens but until then...
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Have you been paying attention? Go over to the Recruiting Forum and read a while. Listen to what highschool coaches who have steered their players away from UT in the past are saying now. There is more to coaching than winning. You have to sell the progam (yes, with rhetoric), attract the players, and coach em up before you can win. We can't beat Florida or Alabama or Vandy, for that matter, with less talent and no discipline. CBJ is doing a great job getting people to pay attention to the VOLS again...even if it is spewing...it is working!
 
#53
#53
StlCardinals2618 said:
I'm sure that has nothing to do with relationships. The whole previous staff pretty much stopped recruiting after the Mizzou game. Thats almost 2 months of no recruiting for UT.

Look at Ole Miss's class when Hugh Freeze first got there, he has one of the best recruiting staff in the nation and even he couldn't pull out a top 25 class.
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What is wrong with people on here? Why can't you just admit that Butch did not succeed with this year's class? Is it so hard to admit that your hero has any failures? There is a difference between being a fan and being a sycophant.

Now, we're making excuses for him by using Hugh Freeze as an example? Seriously? You do realize that Freeze's staff ("one of the best recruiting staff in the nation") makes a fraction of what UT's staff is paid, right? You realize his facilities and fanbase are a far cry from UT's? You realize that Ole Miss has about a 40 year history of being an SEC doormat?

I'm getting sick of "fans" at UT making excuses for their coach by comparing him to Ole Miss' coach or Vanderbilt's coach. You did that during the Dooley era too (and maybe that's why we had to suffer through 3 years of that loser). We should expect our coach to do better than that. We shouldn't be saying "well, if you look at this other recruiting site or if you factor in the number of players, etc. we maybe did better than Vanderbilt." It's Vanderbilt! You shouldn't have to say, "Well, we can't expect him to have the recruiting success of Ole Miss' coach, but maybe if we give him time, he'll come close." He'd better be a step above Ole Miss' coach.

You're never going to catch the Floridas and Alabamas of the world, when all you care about is lowering your expectations and coming up with subjective arguments as to why your guy might someday be better than the coaches at the worst programs in the conference.
 
#54
#54
KBVol said:
What are you, some kind Marxist political science major or something? Jeez. Occupy Wall Street kid? You forgot to work in "peace and justice" in your "propagandist rhetoric".
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Yah. That was my thought too. Wow...

Not feeling a lot of love from the self-professed fan of a "rhetoric-spewing" AD. lol
 
#55
#55
oregonvol said:
What is wrong with people on here? Why can't you just admit that Butch did not succeed with this year's class? Is it so hard to admit that your hero has any failures? There is a difference between being a fan and being a sycophant.

Now, we're making excuses for him by using Hugh Freeze as an example? Seriously? You do realize that Freeze's staff ("one of the best recruiting staff in the nation") makes a fraction of what UT's staff is paid, right? You realize his facilities and fanbase are a far cry from UT's? You realize that Ole Miss has about a 40 year history of being an SEC doormat?

I'm getting sick of "fans" at UT making excuses for their coach by comparing him to Ole Miss' coach or Vanderbilt's coach. You did that during the Dooley era too (and maybe that's why we had to suffer through 3 years of that loser). We should expect our coach to do better than that. We shouldn't be saying "well, if you look at this other recruiting site or if you factor in the number of players, etc. we maybe did better than Vanderbilt." It's Vanderbilt! You shouldn't have to say, "Well, we can't expect him to have the recruiting success of Ole Miss' coach, but maybe if we give him time, he'll come close." He'd better be a step above Ole Miss' coach.

You're never going to catch the Floridas and Alabamas of the world, when all you care about is lowering your expectations and coming up with subjective arguments as to why your guy might someday be better than the coaches at the worst programs in the conference.
Click to expand...

Come on Oregon, you're obviously a bright guy. Get off the "Butch failed at last years recruiting class" mess. He was hired 2 months before NSD for crying out loud. He salvaged what he could given the absolute disaster that was Dooley. How many recruits do you think wrote off Tennessee after the vandy blowout? Hell, he didn't even recruit Vonn Bell! I think most reasonable fans would say the clock doesn't start ticking regarding his recruiting chops til the 2014 class. Come on Oregon, be fair about this.
 
#56
#56
oregonvol said:
What is wrong with people on here? Why can't you just admit that Butch did not succeed with this year's class? Is it so hard to admit that your hero has any failures? There is a difference between being a fan and being a sycophant.

Now, we're making excuses for him by using Hugh Freeze as an example? Seriously? You do realize that Freeze's staff ("one of the best recruiting staff in the nation") makes a fraction of what UT's staff is paid, right? You realize his facilities and fanbase are a far cry from UT's? You realize that Ole Miss has about a 40 year history of being an SEC doormat?

I'm getting sick of "fans" at UT making excuses for their coach by comparing him to Ole Miss' coach or Vanderbilt's coach. You did that during the Dooley era too (and maybe that's why we had to suffer through 3 years of that loser). We should expect our coach to do better than that. We shouldn't be saying "well, if you look at this other recruiting site or if you factor in the number of players, etc. we maybe did better than Vanderbilt." It's Vanderbilt! You shouldn't have to say, "Well, we can't expect him to have the recruiting success of Ole Miss' coach, but maybe if we give him time, he'll come close." He'd better be a step above Ole Miss' coach.

You're never going to catch the Floridas and Alabamas of the world, when all you care about is lowering your expectations and coming up with subjective arguments as to why your guy might someday be better than the coaches at the worst programs in the conference.
Click to expand...

We were a Vonn Bell away from having a stellar class! Bell's relationship with Ohio State and Meyer (that had been forged for over a year) was the final deciding factor and why we ultimately lost our 5* recruit. CBJ and crew did an excellent job selling a program (that they had just inherited) as well as retaining big recruits like Carr. the 2013 class is a good one. Nothing to cry about. The greatest lesson he learned from Bell and others that kept their commitments or at least chose the other hat on the table, is that creating relationship early and gaining commitments from big time players early will help you tremendously on NSD. CBJ is killing it for 2014!
 
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#57
#57
KBVol said:
Come on Oregon, you're obviously a bright guy. Get off the "Butch failed at last years recruiting class" mess. He was hired 2 months before NSD for crying out loud. He salvaged what he could given the absolute disaster that was Dooley. How many recruits do you think wrote off Tennessee after the vandy blowout? Hell, he didn't even recruit Vonn Bell! I think most reasonable fans would say the clock doesn't start ticking regarding his recruiting chops til the 2014 class. Come on Oregon, be fair about this.
Click to expand...

I don't think there are very many weak personalities on here that are going to think like you want them to. You are wasting your time and energy. You are entitled to think as you wish and others are entitled to think as they wish. Chasing every post to try and get them to think "your way" will be a time consuming and fruitless endeavor...
 
#58
#58
I feel like the last two seasons I've gotten really excited for big seasons that ended up being meltdowns. I'll be wearing orange every gameday and loving my vols, but some wins would be nice.
 
#59
#59
oregonvol said:
What is wrong with people on here? Why can't you just admit that Butch did not succeed with this year's class? Is it so hard to admit that your hero has any failures? There is a difference between being a fan and being a sycophant.

Now, we're making excuses for him by using Hugh Freeze as an example? Seriously? You do realize that Freeze's staff ("one of the best recruiting staff in the nation") makes a fraction of what UT's staff is paid, right? You realize his facilities and fanbase are a far cry from UT's? You realize that Ole Miss has about a 40 year history of being an SEC doormat?

I'm getting sick of "fans" at UT making excuses for their coach by comparing him to Ole Miss' coach or Vanderbilt's coach. You did that during the Dooley era too (and maybe that's why we had to suffer through 3 years of that loser). We should expect our coach to do better than that. We shouldn't be saying "well, if you look at this other recruiting site or if you factor in the number of players, etc. we maybe did better than Vanderbilt." It's Vanderbilt! You shouldn't have to say, "Well, we can't expect him to have the recruiting success of Ole Miss' coach, but maybe if we give him time, he'll come close." He'd better be a step above Ole Miss' coach.

You're never going to catch the Floridas and Alabamas of the world, when all you care about is lowering your expectations and coming up with subjective arguments as to why your guy might someday be better than the coaches at the worst programs in the conference.
Click to expand...

2014 Football Recruiting Team Rankings
 
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#60
#60
Volstate said:
Words are words. I'm not easily steered one way of the other by propaganda. Sure, I hope the program under Butch Jones flourishes but until the man proves he can do more than tweet and make inspirational speeches I'm not going to preach to the rest of VolNation to be "excited". When he beats bama...I'll be excited. When he beats a Florida or LSU...I'll be excited. Until then, I'll not buy in to the rhetoric spewed by the athletic department to get you to go by T-Shirts and tickets. Results on the field will get me excited...and like all of you I hope that happens but until then...
Click to expand...

Boring. You are.
 
#61
#61
Makeway, centipede coming through
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#62
#62
Volstate said:
I don't think there are very many weak personalities on here that are going to think like you want them to. You are wasting your time and energy. You are entitled to think as you wish and others are entitled to think as they wish. Chasing every post to try and get them to think "your way" will be a time consuming and fruitless endeavor...
Click to expand...

Not trying to make anybody think in any way. Just making an observation.
 
#63
#63
Hey look another thread that says u aren't a true fan if u are cautiously optimistic, and bash Dooley as if the situations can be equally compared.
 
#65
#65
KBVol said:
Come on Oregon, you're obviously a bright guy. Get off the "Butch failed at last years recruiting class" mess. He was hired 2 months before NSD for crying out loud. He salvaged what he could given the absolute disaster that was Dooley. How many recruits do you think wrote off Tennessee after the vandy blowout? Hell, he didn't even recruit Vonn Bell! I think most reasonable fans would say the clock doesn't start ticking regarding his recruiting chops til the 2014 class. Come on Oregon, be fair about this.
Click to expand...

I have been more than fair. I have said I am happy about where the 2014 class is going. I haven't posted about 2013's class in quite awhile. I only mentioned it here to say that we shouldn't be so quick to declare Butch's recruiting a success.

I think it's also fair to say that 2013 was not a good class and was not significantly better than what Dooley would have done. And anytime a coach at UT can't outrecruit Vanderbilt and Ole Miss, it is embarrassing. But no one here can admit that.

In fact, the excuses get more outlandish the further we get away from signing day. I've already seen someone here imply that Butch couldn't be expected to be as good at recruiting as Hugh Freeze, what with his "best recruiting staff in America" (paid about 70% of what UT's staff makes) and all Ole Miss' amenities. I had to respond to that. Now I'm reading that we were one Vonn Bell away from having a "stellar class". Seriously? Have you seen what Florida and Alabama have been signing? It's like everyone on here wants us to be at the bottom of the SEC for the rest of our lifetimes. With "fans" like this, who needs rivals?
 
#66
#66
Milehigh_Vol said:
Makeway, centipede coming through
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Awesome centipede bro
 
#68
#68
oregonvol said:
I have been more than fair. I have said I am happy about where the 2014 class is going. I haven't posted about 2013's class in quite awhile. I only mentioned it here to say that we shouldn't be so quick to declare Butch's recruiting a success.

I think it's also fair to say that 2013 was not a good class and was not significantly better than what Dooley would have done. And anytime a coach at UT can't outrecruit Vanderbilt and Ole Miss, it is embarrassing. But no one here can admit that.

In fact, the excuses get more outlandish the further we get away from signing day. I've already seen someone here imply that Butch couldn't be expected to be as good at recruiting as Hugh Freeze, what with his "best recruiting staff in America" (paid about 70% of what UT's staff makes) and all Ole Miss' amenities. I had to respond to that. Now I'm reading that we were one Vonn Bell away from having a "stellar class". Seriously? Have you seen what Florida and Alabama have been signing? It's like everyone on here wants us to be at the bottom of the SEC for the rest of our lifetimes. With "fans" like this, who needs rivals?
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Hugh Freeze had a year of coaching at Ole Miss under his belt before recruiting for 2013. He had a few moral victories and Rebels are showing major improvement on the field. I don't understand why you would expect a brand new coach (unproven in the SEC) who has just inherited an embarrassment of a program to do as well...regardless of how much he and staff were paid (for 2 months). And facilities mean jack if recruits are afraid that they could be potentially signing a letter binding them to a school that could change coaches 3 times during their college career. And, yes, Vonn Bell would have absolutely made this class impressive...or at least,very good. Not Florida good. Not Alabama good...but considering the circumstances...VERY good. And, since when is being an optimistic fan...or a realistic fan relative to being a rival. We all want UT to be top tier and an SEC championship contender....I guess some of us are seeing the silver lining and some of us are just moaning.
 
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#69
#69
oregonvol said:
I have been more than fair. I have said I am happy about where the 2014 class is going. I haven't posted about 2013's class in quite awhile. I only mentioned it here to say that we shouldn't be so quick to declare Butch's recruiting a success.

I think it's also fair to say that 2013 was not a good class and was not significantly better than what Dooley would have done. And anytime a coach at UT can't outrecruit Vanderbilt and Ole Miss, it is embarrassing. But no one here can admit that.

In fact, the excuses get more outlandish the further we get away from signing day. I've already seen someone here imply that Butch couldn't be expected to be as good at recruiting as Hugh Freeze, what with his "best recruiting staff in America" (paid about 70% of what UT's staff makes) and all Ole Miss' amenities. I had to respond to that. Now I'm reading that we were one Vonn Bell away from having a "stellar class". Seriously? Have you seen what Florida and Alabama have been signing? It's like everyone on here wants us to be at the bottom of the SEC for the rest of our lifetimes. With "fans" like this, who needs rivals?
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1. If Vandy recruits anywhere near UT this year then I'll be disappointed... last year is NOT an apples to apples comparison and you surely know it

2. I can't, you can't, virtually no one can explain exactly how Freeze got last years class, and how he's doing what he's doing so far this year. It's a complete anomaly, outlier. That's fact, never ever in history had a 5 star recruit and all of a sudden they're swimming in them.

Our standards under Dooley plummeted. Under CBJ thus far they certainly appear to be back where they have been historically and where they belong ... at the elite Level. So far, #4 in recruiting shows that. Why do I think you'll have excuses or distrust in this staff even if we're still #4 after NSD?
 
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#70
#70
TeazyT said:
Not trying to be a downer, but wasn't it supposed to be a given that Butch was a good in-game coach? Recruiting was his big problem at Cincy, I support CBJ 100% and am pleased with what he's done. But let's try to calm down, and wait and see how things go in the ACTUAL season. With that said GO COACH JONES AND GO BIG ORANGE!
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Fyp.

Cincy was really bad in recruiting. He beat teams with superior talent on a regular basis
 
#71
#71
KBVol said:
1. If Vandy recruits anywhere near UT this year then I'll be disappointed... last year is NOT an apples to apples comparison and you surely know it

2. I can't, you can't, virtually no one can explain exactly how Freeze got last years class, and how he's doing what he's doing so far this year. It's a complete anomaly, outlier. That's fact, never ever in history had a 5 star recruit and all of a sudden they're swimming in them.

Our standards under Dooley plummeted. Under CBJ thus far they certainly appear to be back where they have been historically and where they belong ... at the elite Level. So far, #4 in recruiting shows that. Why do I think you'll have excuses or distrust in this staff even if we're still #4 after NSD?
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Why am I sure that you and the rest of this board will be making excuses for Jones when we don't finish #4 on NSD?

Honestly, I will be 100% happy with Butch Jones' recruiting abilities if we finish in the top five nationally on NSD 2014. You can quote me on that.

But, if Hugh Freeze is able to sign a top 5 class at Ole Miss of all places, in his second year, with barely a winning record, then I think it's time we expected our head coach to do the same. And don't give me the "outlier" excuse. It still counts. If his staff can figure it out, then our higher paid staff selling better facilities and better tradition ought to be able to. If we are ever going to catch up with our actual rivals, then we need to be able to at least outdistance the likes of Ole Miss.
 
#73
#73
Volstate said:
I don't think there are very many weak personalities on here that are going to think like you want them to. You are wasting your time and energy. You are entitled to think as you wish and others are entitled to think as they wish. Chasing every post to try and get them to think "your way" will be a time consuming and fruitless endeavor...
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As opposed to Oregon, who chases conversations around, defining for others what is "success" vs "failure" in a recruiting class? You mean like that? :ermm:
 
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