I'll have to hand it to CBJ - he knows how to handle a loss

[tm3]

Difference in coaching I think. And if CBJ is good on his word from the post game conference and from the Monday interview, he's been in the team's behind all week getting them prepped. When it comes down to it, Miami doesn't have any more talent than we do and I think the desire was what helped put them over the top.

I'm thinking that game will be a lot closer than most give it credit for and a win is certainly achievable.

given that you believe that UT has equal talent to a team that just beat UF, what will you conclude if UF happens to pull off a lopsided victory?

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

The biggest problem with the team is how it handles adversity. CBJ I think knows how to handle it, he's been apart of rebuilding programs twice already. Our Seniors and juniors, not so much, tired of seeing a team rolling over and showing its belly when it's down, we need guys that play hard 4 quarters regardless. More important to our future we don't need the old mentality infecting younger players.

 

[Grand Vol]

given that you believe that UT has equal talent to a team that just beat UF, what will you conclude if UF happens to pull off a lopsided victory?

I will conclude nothing. Florida is not a bad team. Overrated this year yes, but certainly not on the level they have been in the past.

There are thousands of variables that go into each game that cannot be accurately predicted in advance so reaching a conclusion is futile. We could go out and fire on all cylinders and Florida flops out of the gate. We could end up getting five players hurt in the first quarter while Driskell tosses the ball at will against our secondary.

This game could go either way.

There's a term for it, **** happens. And nothing that can be concluded other than that.

 

[Oskie Volum]

If CBJ is the coach we hope he is, the team will come out with a chip on their shoulder this week and play hard for all four quarters. If not they'll cave at the first sign of defeat like the past few years. At this point, we may not be good enough to win seven or more games but that doesn't mean we can't play like we are.

Bottom line: With recruiting being what it has been, if the players buy in and play hard, wins aren't a matter of if but when. Patience is a virtue.

USC game 2012 the Vols went into Half down 28-14. Lost 38-35. Game lost in the last min or so when the top defender in the country caused Bray to fumble on a possible scoring drive that could have tied or won the game.

Does the above sound like a team that didn't play all 4 qtrs and that quit at the first sign of defeat?? Especially after they had gotten spanked by bama the week before, and ms st in another game that they let through their fingers with stupid mistakes.

Yall are so wrapped up on hating Dooley yall sit here bashing the players yall say u support. So many of yall were wrapped up in hating Dooley, and in the Gruden circle-jerk thread to see the improvements. Were they plentiful? Maybe not, but there were some. A team that wasn't able to fight til the end in most games isn't the '12 Vols, but the '11 Vols.
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[Stevorino]

USC game 2012 the Vols went into Half down 28-14. Lost 38-35. Game lost in the last min or so when the top defender in the country caused Bray to fumble on a possible scoring drive that could have tied or won the game.

Does the above sound like a team that didn't play all 4 qtrs and that quit at the first sign of defeat?? Especially after they had gotten spanked by bama the week before, and ms st in another game that they let through their fingers with stupid mistakes.

Yall are so wrapped up on hating Dooley yall sit here bashing the players yall say u support. So many of yall were wrapped up in hating Dooley, and in the Gruden circle-jerk thread to see the improvements. Were they plentiful? Maybe not, but there were some. A team that wasn't able to fight til the end in most games isn't the '12 Vols, but the '11 Vols.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Whoa whoa whoa whoa - let's slow down here.

It's coming.

SOON.

 

[VolBuck86]

BS. There are holes... but coaches are paid to fill holes and scheme around weaknesses.

I have argued that this roster is better in talent than Dooley's first roster. It is less dependent on Fr and not as thin in as many positions so I believe it is. But let's say it is only equal... Dooley won six regular season games against a schedule every bit as difficult as this one. He should have won 8 if not for a couple of flukes.

Dooley complained about having to "recruit" as well.

This whole start to Jones' tenure is just WAY too deja vu to me.... and what will it suggest if he only wins six games like Dooley?

If he can break even at 6-6 this year, that would mean that he's been able to win our last scheduled out of conference game and 3 SEC opponents, and made the team bowl eligible for the first time since the 2010 season.

Much as 7, 8, or 9 win season would be desired, as bad as this team has been the last few years, 6-6 would be an improvement, at least compared to the last two seasons.

 

[Boca Vol]

If he can break even at 6-6 this year, that would mean that he's been able to win our last scheduled out of conference game and 3 SEC opponents, and made the team bowl eligible for the first time since the 2010 season.

Much as 7, 8, or 9 win season would be desired, as bad as this team has been the last few years, 6-6 would be an improvement, at least compared to the last two seasons.

Not really. UT was an odd loss against Missouri last year from 6-6.

Who would win between last year's team and this year's team?

 

[tm3]

Not really. UT was an odd loss against Missouri last year from 6-6.

Who would win between last year's team and this year's team?

Sal D vs Worley.

i would pay to see that one.

 

[SmokinBob]

Let's face it, Dooley was over after Tennessee-Martin in 2010. The university and the fans just didn't know it yet.



I think given the circumstances and conditions he had, there was little more he could do that would have helped on Saturday. So what if he took the penalty on that 3rd down? I seriously doubt it would have changed the fact Oregon could have/would have slammed it past the pylons.

And frankly, how many coaches in the country could have walked into that stadium and done any different with the junior talent we have? Oregon has a potential NC winning team, two potential Heisman candidates and a coach that's been in the same system for five years.

We have a first year coach just getting his style of offense started, a lot of first year starters and underclassmen, a roster missing key personnel and potential on field issues with players. Nothing could have stopped that game from unfolding the way it did no matter what decisions he made as coach that day.



Why don't we at least get through the first year before starting in on the doom and gloom predictions?



In your eyes. And what makes you singularly qualified to make this judgement call? Correct, you aren't...



On the scoreboard perhaps...

My opinion of the worst loss? LSU 2010. That team went into Death Valley and played their guts out. And to lose at the very end of the game the way they did was straight up gut wrenching.

To me losing by two points off a mistake made by the coach against the #12 team in the country was far worse than losing by 50 points to the #2 team in the nation.



I'm reasonably certain if Nicholls State came into Neyland the score in that game would be pretty similar to the Oregon - Nicholls State game.

Unless of course you are saying our players are no better than a Division 1-AA FCS school?



Why can't you grasp the simple concept that Saturday was not about Butch or Tennessee or Worley or anything even remotely orange?

Saturday was all about Oregon. It's not that we are that bad, it's the fact they are just that damn good! Maybe five teams could have gone in there and been competitive. We don't notice them week to week as they play out west where we generally don't care about unless it's a team beating Kiffin in USC. Oregon is the dominate team this year west of the Mississippi and more than likely will go to the National Championship. And for the life of me I cannot understand why you refuse to accept this simple concept and keep blaming our team and coaches for Oregon being as good as they are!

I refuse to argue or debate this with you any longer. Fact of the matter is, you are NOT qualified to make any judgment calls on how well the coach performed since you flat refuse to give credit to the other team for having a superior squad. Somehow in your mind you think we should have gone in there and won that game. And again, the deck chairs of the Titanic can be rearranged any way you darn well please and it won't change the end result. That game was lost before it was even started. The coaches knew, the players knew, the fans mostly knew, the sportscasters knew. Everyone knew the eventual outcome of the game! And so what if he made a mistake or two. It would not have changed the overall outcome had he coached the perfect game.

Once again, if you feel the coach made a couple of bad calls, I again invite you to offer your services to the University of Tennessee since you obviously know far better than CBJ on how to win a football game.

Well said :hi: and now - Volnation needs to "snap and clear"

 

[Oskie Volum]

And frankly, how many coaches in the country could have walked into that stadium and done any different with the junior talent we have? Oregon has a potential NC winning team, two potential Heisman candidates and a coach that's been in the same system for five years.

We have a first year coach just getting his style of offense started, a lot of first year starters and underclassmen, a roster missing key personnel and potential on field issues with players. Nothing could have stopped that game from unfolding the way it did no matter what decisions he made as coach that day.

To use ur LSU '10 example....can't some of the above be said there?? 1st yr coach going into one of the toughest stadiums in the country, BUT he took one of the top SEC teams to the wire....not getting spanked...but taking them to the wire. With a team that had a huge player deficit...numbers, talent, experience wise, players with off the field issues, etc. But apparently Dooley is an incompetent bafoon who can't coach himself out of a paper bag. Also, last I checked our RBs and entire OL are not underclassmen, and not much of our D either. We have a starting JR QB that has been on campus for 2 yrs as a "first yr starter" not a juco transfer and a true freshman. Etc etc etc.

On the scoreboard perhaps...

My opinion of the worst loss? LSU 2010. That team went into Death Valley and played their guts out. And to lose at the very end of the game the way they did was straight up gut wrenching.

To me losing by two points off a mistake made by the coach against the #12 team in the country was far worse than losing by 50 points to the #2 team in the nation.

So u would rather be dominated like a little b*tch, walk off the field with ur tail between ur legs, and no respect from ur opponent??? Huh...says a lot. Me personally I would rather be able to look my opponent in the eyes at the end of the game with my head up, and him knowing that if we meet again he better not let his guard down. And him knowing that he better be prepared.

I was at that game. Just a few rows behind the Vols. U r calling out Sjt for thinking he should put his hat in the ring for his comments. Yet u act like you wouldn't have made the "mistake" at the end of the LSU game. I'll tell u right now that that brief moment was so crazy u nor anyone here could say they wouldn't have had that happen. You people act like no coach in history have ever had that happen to them in game.

We lose to a team we shouldn't have even been close to beating with a worse squad, dissapoinnted but able to walk off the field with pride, respect from the national news and the opponents fans, and u r an incompetent bafoon of a coach. You get spanked on national TV by the widest margin in a 100yrs, deflated, and embarrassed and u are still a great coach. Classic VN.

Not saying that CBJ isn't going to be great, but being naive isn't something we can afford right now. The guy is getting pd way more than Dooley, and doesnt have to deal with anywhere near of a sh*t storm that he did. We cant afford to be patient. He needs to turn things around ASAP. If this fan base can't get over a loss to KY for the first time in 26yrs how is it going to get over losing 8 games for the first time in history? Especially leaving OHSt as the only team that hasn't dropped that much.

The fact is that this fan base will bring CBJ down like they did Dooley, and that's a major concern for few fans apparently.

Why can't you grasp the simple concept that Saturday was not about Butch or Tennessee or Worley or anything even remotely orange?

Really??? So Saturday means nothing at all to Vol fans?? On a Vol site?? Que??? A fan cares less about what it means about the other team. We win...means great things. Good hard fought close game either way...means good things. We get spanked...means we should be concerned. Plain and simple.

 

[Grand Vol]

To use ur LSU '10 example....can't some of the above be said there?? 1st yr coach going into one of the toughest stadiums in the country, BUT he took one of the top SEC teams to the wire....not getting spanked...but taking them to the wire. With a team that had a huge player deficit...numbers, talent, experience wise, players with off the field issues, etc. But apparently Dooley is an incompetent bafoon who can't coach himself out of a paper bag. Also, last I checked our RBs and entire OL are not underclassmen, and not much of our D either. We have a starting JR QB that has been on campus for 2 yrs as a "first yr starter" not a juco transfer and a true freshman. Etc etc etc.

Yes, there is a huge difference in Oregon where we were way underdogs and losing by what we did and LSU where we were way underdogs and should have come out on top, but a mistake of too many men on the field cost us the game.

Had we gone toe to toe in Autzen and come out maybe a field goal shy in the end, yes, I would be way more disappointed. And possibly even call the coach's decision making ability into question. But alas, that game was out of reach by halftime. Now I am disappointed that our program was allowed to fall to this level as it is, so there is that.

So u would rather be dominated like a little b*tch, walk off the field with ur tail between ur legs, and no respect from ur opponent??? Huh...says a lot. Me personally I would rather be able to look my opponent in the eyes at the end of the game with my head up, and him knowing that if we meet again he better not let his guard down. And him knowing that he better be prepared.

If the above quotes are attempting to subtly call me names or suggest something about my character, it won't work. I give you a good attempt at provocation, but at the day's end, I remember the simple fact you are behind a computer screen and wouldn't have the guts to say those things to my face. So let's just move past this shall we?

I was at that game. Just a few rows behind the Vols. U r calling out Sjt for thinking he should put his hat in the ring for his comments. Yet u act like you wouldn't have made the "mistake" at the end of the LSU game. I'll tell u right now that that brief moment was so crazy u nor anyone here could say they wouldn't have had that happen. You people act like no coach in history have ever had that happen to them in game.

The answer will be simple. I have no idea what I would do, would have done or if history would have repeated itself. But what I do know is the University pays the head coach to make sure the game play is within the rules and to ensure he is cognizant of everything going on while there is time still on the clock. And in that moment of time he failed and it cost us the game.

SJT wants to call out CBJ on one mistake and make the grandiose claim that "there are doubts in Jones' ability to coach." And reaching this conclusion based on what? Three games? Seriously? It took well into the second season for most to start to realize Dooley wasn't cutting the mustard.

We lose to a team we shouldn't have even been close to beating with a worse squad, dissapoinnted but able to walk off the field with pride, respect from the national news and the opponents fans, and u r an incompetent bafoon of a coach. You get spanked on national TV by the widest margin in a 100yrs, deflated, and embarrassed and u are still a great coach. Classic VN.

I can't comment on whether or not anyone called Dooley a buffoon at the time of the LSU game. If you check my join date, I didn't happen to be around during that time frame. But moving forward in time to the present...

I don't recall any media outlets saying we went in there and embarrassed ourselves. Actually, most gave our team respect for actually having the guts to go into that game when we very well could have bought out of it. And it's very odd that ESPN even said nice things about our team in the pre-game show. Something to the effect of "Tennessee is heading in the right direction with Butch Jones and there could be some upsets this year."

Nobody used the word embarrassed. Except our own fans...

Yes, in retrospect, Dooley failed at his principle job, especially in that game. It should have been a harbinger of things to come, but nobody picked up on it because it was his first season. And we were giving him the chance to prove himself.

And funny, now it's Coach Jones' first season as well, so isn't he allowed the very same latitude? I'll wait for that answer. But in the meantime, consider this:

We have not seen enough out of Butch Jones to form an objective opinion of his abilities. Just like we had not seen enough out of Derek Dooley to objectively form an opinion at the time of the LSU game. However, the same person you are attempting to support, SJT18, is already attempting to objectify the coaching ability of one Coach Butch Jones. Which does tend to conflict with your statements...

Not saying that CBJ isn't going to be great, but being naive isn't something we can afford right now. The guy is getting pd way more than Dooley, and doesnt have to deal with anywhere near of a sh*t storm that he did. We cant afford to be patient. He needs to turn things around ASAP. If this fan base can't get over a loss to KY for the first time in 26yrs how is it going to get over losing 8 games for the first time in history? Especially leaving OHSt as the only team that hasn't dropped that much.

Nobody on this board is being naive. And most people on this board realize the coach is in his first year. But we also do realize he is walking into a sh*t storm. Just a way different storm that Dooley walked into. The team is demoralized, lacked discipline, lost major talent at starting positions and was coming off four out of five losing seasons. And if that isn't the definition of sh*t storm, I don't know what is.

I don't envy Coach Jones' job in the least. He has a huge uphill battle to fight. And yes, we can afford to be a little patient. We have to be a little patient. Brick by brick isn't a snazzy slogan he's tossing out there for a sound bite on ESPN. It happens to be the only way for us to get through this era of UT football.

The fact is that this fan base will bring CBJ down like they did Dooley, and that's a major concern for few fans apparently.

Friend, you are seriously contradicting yourself at this point. This is the point I was trying to make when I made that post.

Really??? So Saturday means nothing at all to Vol fans?? On a Vol site?? Que??? A fan cares less about what it means about the other team. We win...means great things. Good hard fought close game either way...means good things. We get spanked...means we should be concerned. Plain and simple.

If you want to cherry pick quotes out of what I wrote, why don't you quote the rest of what I said? First off, nobody isn't concerned. But the majority of us realize how far down this team is and is starting to crawl back up. And we understand (a majority of us at least) that we were going to go into Oregon and get dismantled. I had hopes of a better offensive and defensive production in that game, but Oregon was just too good on both sides of the field. Now, I'll forgive your lack of understanding of the point I was making and explain it further...

Mister SJT continually railed against how inept Jones appeared in his previous posts. I'm unaware of your have read this entire thread or not, although I doubt you did. Summarily he continued to gripe and moan about one simple call that wouldn't have made any difference in the world had we taken the penalty instead of refusing it. And continued to call into question the ability of Jones' on field performance as well as our players.

Which does pretty much make us in agreeance about giving the coach a shot. But moving on...

So the overall point I was making there was nothing, absolutely diddly we could have done to change the eventual outcome of that game. We just don't have the talent yet to go into Autzen and compete on that level. So hence, the game was not about us, it was about the other team proving they deserve to be where they are at and maybe even move up in the world. So what if we scored another touchdown or two or taken a penalty and pushed Oregon back another ten yards. There was nothing that we did that would not have made any difference in the world in that game. Now if you want to make that game all about the UT Football team, the media and sports outlets would come away saying "man, the Vols are horrible and suck!" But they haven't. Instead, our own fans are posting up that diatribe against our players and coaches.

Not one media outlet has said one word about our team sucking that bad when they know there aren't many teams that can go into Oregon and be competitive. So hence, the game had nothing to do with UT, but everything to do with Oregon. And I for one am happy that most people in the sports world are not looking at us as if we suck, but rather that Oregon is just that damn good.

If you're going to quote me and attempt to attack my character or something I say, please attempt to apply some critical thinking, reading comprehension and go through the entire thread prior to posting something that basically supports what I've said so far. You probably shouldn't post things up that basically support my position if you are taking the contrary opinion.

Have a nice day!

 

[VolBuck86]

Not really. UT was an odd loss against Missouri last year from 6-6.

Who would win between last year's team and this year's team?

There was nothing odd about the Missouri loss last year. I honestly was surprised Tennessee managed to win a similar trainwreck of a game against Troy the week beforehand.