I'll have to hand it to CBJ - he knows how to handle a loss

[butchna]

VOLnation will be on suicide watch if UT loses to FU this saturday.

Hate to say it...actually I don't.

If you end it all over this, you probably weren't going to contribute enough to make up for the oxygen you're hoggin!
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Obsessedvol]

I don't think some of you understand how good Oregon is or how bad we are right now. Also it's not jones' fault Worley can't complete passes worth crap or that Oregon has lightning speed or that we don't have near the talent Oregon does. I'm as embarrassed about saturday as anyone but some of you need to realize UT is really bad right now and has fallen far far down. Oregon is a national title contender and UT is a sun belt championship contender. Not trying to be rude, I love UT. Always will, but...the truth hurts sometimes. Stop blaming the coaches when it's 3 games into the season and when they're still trying to change the culture from Dooley. It's quite obvious jones is gonna do well here.

 

[tm3]

Great post, Volosaurus.

Sounds like UT may be the only program of the modern era to have a down cycle of this magnitude.

 

[gnm53108]

Apparently if that's all you've got then I understand it quite a bit better than you. You make some incoherent comment about comas... then can't explain what you mean.

I understand just fine... and unlike you apparently I see just fine. Bluster and BS are all fine and dandy as long as you back them up with performance. I want Jones to succeed. I like Jones. But all he's done so far at UT is talk.... he and his staff laid an egg Saturday.

I've asked others... Give me one reason from what we saw Saturday that I should have faith that he's "the guy" to win championships at UT. No one else has given me a reason. Maybe you will.

I WANT to believe. I am NOT making any kind of final judgment. But what we saw Saturday coaching wise is NOT distinguishable in quality from what we have seen through Fulmer's decline and Dooley's tenure.

Can you tell me anything of real substance that shows a break from the past results?

I'm with ya sjt. Last Saturday didn't inspire confidence. From what I saw when we had a "hat on hat" our defense looked like they held their own. It was when we looked like we only had 10 guys out there that killed us. How can our dline push their ol around, cb's glued to wrs, a lb barrelling down on a qb just to see that there's one guy standing in the middle of the feild without an orange guy within 15 yrds. I could understand that happening a time, or maybe two, during a game....but that just about became their "go to" play.

 

[clemvol]

Lets see, We lost badly to the number two team in the country. Surely no thought we would win. If we had lost by 28 to 35 points i would say we are in better shape than originally thought. But, given it was by a wider margin in a weird way this loss will be better for the Vols. Before you have that inner drive, before you have the hunger to win you sometimes have to be humbled in the worst way. You have to let something like this stick in your craw to find and get the fire back. Now that this has happened get the focus back and go full steam ahead. I will still say the Vols are looking at 7 wins this year with the upset game coming against south carolina. Go Vols

 

[livefaith]

CBJ will say how proud he is of the team, a great win for Tennessee,, but it's one step,, we have a long way to go and will work harder next week...

I think you may have missed the hidden message in there.

 

[Vol Main]

This brings up an interesting thought....has there ever been a team that's had as dramatic of a fall from grace as UT has had?

Miami comes to mind, and they just beat Florida.

 

[sjt18]

I wouldn't get too hung up on one game. If Dooley had to travel to Eugene rather than play at home the result would have been just as bad if not worse.

That is the conclusion I keep coming to... and it is totally unacceptable to my conscience. "As bad" as Dooley... is failure, right?

It was early in the Dooley era too, players still had some kiffin swagger and hasn't learned DD's born loser mentality. CBJ is fighting through that.

This I just don't buy. WAY too many cases of coaches turning losers around to a winning attitude in the first season.

I focus on the few penalties and discipline CBJ has brought. His recruiting is out of the park. Combine the two in a few years and we will be competing.

That's another concern. A UT coach is unlikely to continue to compete that well on the recruiting trail without showing they are a top tier coach with performance on the field. He might be able to sell past a bad year this year but that becomes far more difficult with his third signing class unless he has an unexpected level of success next year. Next year based on roster strength looks to be tougher than this year.

Just need more patience unfortunately. Would have never dreamed the row would be this tough to hoe.

Unfortunately I don't think UT can afford much patience unless the instate recruiting gets much better... and much more loyal to UT.

Freeze in year two now has had a great class and has Ole Miss ranked after being horrible two years ago. He isn't going away. The only program we can count on being bad both on the field and in recruiting is UK... and that's not the ironclad guarantee it once was.

If Jones doesn't prove something on the field in the first 3 years... it is going to be tough to ever get the players he needs.

 

[Grand Vol]

That is the conclusion I keep coming to... and it is totally unacceptable to my conscience. "As bad" as Dooley... is failure, right?

blah, blah, blah <snipped for length>

Seriously guy, do us all a favor and in three years when you think you're proven right and CBJ gets the axe and toss your hat into the coaching search ring. Offer UT to take you on at a third of the pay since fans will do it for the love of the game rather than the money, right? You obviously know better than the coach at this point on how to coach and manage UT football.

Go on out and prove us all wrong about CBJ after three games. Hire a dynamite staff with the leftover money and go win a championship in the first season like you are obviously capable of doing in your mind.

Don't worry, we'll still be here when you get hired.

 

[sjt18]

Seriously guy, do us all a favor and in three years when you think you're proven right and CBJ gets the axe and toss your hat into the coaching search ring. Offer UT to take you on at a third of the pay since fans will do it for the love of the game rather than the money, right? You obviously know better than the coach at this point on how to coach and manage UT football.

No... just more than folks like you who cannot put a reasonable argument together so you just attack those who try to do so.

Go on out and prove us all wrong about CBJ after three games. Hire a dynamite staff with the leftover money and go win a championship in the first season like you are obviously capable of doing in your mind.

Oh great... an argument by exaggeration too. You're a real champ.

Don't worry, we'll still be here when you get hired.

I'm sure. And like the rest of the cowards and self-obsessed "experts" over the last 8 years... you'll probably change your screen name and start railing on Jones long before I do.

 

[Grand Vol]

No... just more than folks like you who cannot put a reasonable argument together so you just attack those who try to do so.

Try coming up with a reasonable argument and I'll do my darndest to counterpoint.

Oh great... an argument by exaggeration too. You're a real champ.

Why thanks. Always felt like a winner since that spelling bee in the 2nd grade where I spelled squirrel right.

I'm sure. And like the rest of the cowards and self-obsessed "experts" over the last 8 years... you'll probably change your screen name and start railing on Jones long before I do.

Funny, I wasn't around for Dooley last year (on this forum at least) and actually supported him until I had doubts around the Mississippi State game. And eventually lost all faith in him after the Mizzu game when it was apparent he was on his way out anyway. I always thought he meant well and generally pulled in a decent recruiting class, but just was always outmatched on the field.

I was right you know.

But overall, I supported him as he was the coach of the team I chose to follow at a young age. And when he left, I held no ill will and hoped the best for him in the future. Now enter Coach Butch Jones stage left...

He's our coach and deserving of our respect until he shows he is unable to perform the duties and responsibilities of the head coach position. And in three games, he has yet to prove that he is not capable of coaching in the big leagues. You whine and complain about what he didn't do in the Oregon game, but let's look at what he did do:

Did NOT get significant numbers of our players hurt trying to make the scoreboard look better at the end of the game.

Did NOT let his ego come into play by blaming a bad game on the players.

DID get a valuable look at where we happened to be at by measuring us against one of the premier schools in the NCAA.

DID continue the trend of basic field discipline by again limiting penalties to just 57 yards and three turnovers for the entire year so far.

And foremost, DID get mad about losing and DID roll his sleeves up and get back to work in getting our team back to where they rightfully should be instead of hanging his head and crying.

You can whine all you want about him not rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic just so you could personally feel better about the inevitable loss we WERE going to take heading into Autzen by getting another score or two. But I'll take a smart coach that knows to conserve his players for the upcoming conference games that mean something to us and that we have a far better chance of winning than the #2 team in the country that, barring any unforeseen circumstance, will be in the National Championship game and could very well take it all this year.

And in three years time if Butch decides to leave or we let him go, I'll still be the same Grand Vol I am today. Still supporting the Vols because there are some things that are bigger than a coach or a single game.

 

[immyaxl]

This brings up an interesting thought....has there ever been a team that's had as dramatic of a fall from grace as UT has had?

Notre Dame in the mid 90's till Brian Kelly was hired!

 

[volswillrise12]

I think it's funny when people argue back and forth over crap that absolutely makes no sense. "If Dooley coached the team we would have lost by 100" "Jones got out coached against Oregon" Bottom line is it is all yet to be determined with CBJ and his staff. Every loss is going to be over analyzed by the fans because we are in a "Win Now" society. No one ever wants to lose. We all want to point fingers and give opinions on why---but sometimes we as fans need to just sit back and let it all happen and have a little blind faith. If all the Internet football experts were coaching we'd have no one on Volnation.

 

[sjt18]

I supported Dooley getting his chance until about the same time you did. I felt he had to beat someone that mattered last year to keep his job. That was over when he lost to USCe.

I'll support Jones until he gets his shot. He still did a poor job coaching this past Saturday... and still has a very difficult row to hoe. I think his standard is exactly the same. He has to show something by year three or he's gone. Saturday was simply a bad sign. He coached the worst loss UT has had in 100 years. Oregon manhandled UT on the same level they manhandled Nicholl's State... that tells me it wasn't a reflection of the talent UT has.

Maybe that's the low point. Maybe his style and schemes work better against other programs. Maybe he surprises the world this Saturday. But the truth is the evidence is mixed right now on whether Jones is the right guy or not. Yes it is early... but when you take a 100 year beating... that's pretty sobering.

 

[diehardvolsfan]

with doofus coaching, that Oregon game would have been 77-3 Oregon.....im SO GLAD he is GONE forever!! sucks he on my beloved Cowboys and will help bring them down too...(( WTF was Jerry Jones thinking?????

 

[Grand Vol]

I supported Dooley getting his chance until about the same time you did. I felt he had to beat someone that mattered last year to keep his job. That was over when he lost to USCe.

Let's face it, Dooley was over after Tennessee-Martin in 2010. The university and the fans just didn't know it yet.

I'll support Jones until he gets his shot. He still did a poor job coaching this past Saturday... and still has a very difficult row to hoe.

I think given the circumstances and conditions he had, there was little more he could do that would have helped on Saturday. So what if he took the penalty on that 3rd down? I seriously doubt it would have changed the fact Oregon could have/would have slammed it past the pylons.

And frankly, how many coaches in the country could have walked into that stadium and done any different with the junior talent we have? Oregon has a potential NC winning team, two potential Heisman candidates and a coach that's been in the same system for five years.

We have a first year coach just getting his style of offense started, a lot of first year starters and underclassmen, a roster missing key personnel and potential on field issues with players. Nothing could have stopped that game from unfolding the way it did no matter what decisions he made as coach that day.

I think his standard is exactly the same. He has to show something by year three or he's gone.

Why don't we at least get through the first year before starting in on the doom and gloom predictions?

Saturday was simply a bad sign.

In your eyes. And what makes you singularly qualified to make this judgement call? Correct, you aren't...

He coached the worst loss UT has had in 100 years.

On the scoreboard perhaps...

My opinion of the worst loss? LSU 2010. That team went into Death Valley and played their guts out. And to lose at the very end of the game the way they did was straight up gut wrenching.

To me losing by two points off a mistake made by the coach against the #12 team in the country was far worse than losing by 50 points to the #2 team in the nation.

Oregon manhandled UT on the same level they manhandled Nicholl's State... that tells me it wasn't a reflection of the talent UT has.

I'm reasonably certain if Nicholls State came into Neyland the score in that game would be pretty similar to the Oregon - Nicholls State game.

Unless of course you are saying our players are no better than a Division 1-AA FCS school?

Maybe that's the low point. Maybe his style and schemes work better against other programs. Maybe he surprises the world this Saturday. But the truth is the evidence is mixed right now on whether Jones is the right guy or not. Yes it is early... but when you take a 100 year beating... that's pretty sobering.

Why can't you grasp the simple concept that Saturday was not about Butch or Tennessee or Worley or anything even remotely orange?

Saturday was all about Oregon. It's not that we are that bad, it's the fact they are just that damn good! Maybe five teams could have gone in there and been competitive. We don't notice them week to week as they play out west where we generally don't care about unless it's a team beating Kiffin in USC. Oregon is the dominate team this year west of the Mississippi and more than likely will go to the National Championship. And for the life of me I cannot understand why you refuse to accept this simple concept and keep blaming our team and coaches for Oregon being as good as they are!

I refuse to argue or debate this with you any longer. Fact of the matter is, you are NOT qualified to make any judgment calls on how well the coach performed since you flat refuse to give credit to the other team for having a superior squad. Somehow in your mind you think we should have gone in there and won that game. And again, the deck chairs of the Titanic can be rearranged any way you darn well please and it won't change the end result. That game was lost before it was even started. The coaches knew, the players knew, the fans mostly knew, the sportscasters knew. Everyone knew the eventual outcome of the game! And so what if he made a mistake or two. It would not have changed the overall outcome had he coached the perfect game.

Once again, if you feel the coach made a couple of bad calls, I again invite you to offer your services to the University of Tennessee since you obviously know far better than CBJ on how to win a football game.

 

[mmajaz12]

Let's face it, Dooley was over after Tennessee-Martin in 2010. The university and the fans just didn't know it yet.



I think given the circumstances and conditions he had, there was little more he could do that would have helped on Saturday. So what if he took the penalty on that 3rd down? I seriously doubt it would have changed the fact Oregon could have/would have slammed it past the pylons.

And frankly, how many coaches in the country could have walked into that stadium and done any different with the junior talent we have? Oregon has a potential NC winning team, two potential Heisman candidates and a coach that's been in the same system for five years.

We have a first year coach just getting his style of offense started, a lot of first year starters and underclassmen, a roster missing key personnel and potential on field issues with players. Nothing could have stopped that game from unfolding the way it did no matter what decisions he made as coach that day.



Why don't we at least get through the first year before starting in on the doom and gloom predictions?



In your eyes. And what makes you singularly qualified to make this judgement call? Correct, you aren't...



On the scoreboard perhaps...

My opinion of the worst loss? LSU 2010. That team went into Death Valley and played their guts out. And to lose at the very end of the game the way they did was straight up gut wrenching.

To me losing by two points off a mistake made by the coach against the #12 team in the country was far worse than losing by 50 points to the #2 team in the nation.



I'm reasonably certain if Nicholls State came into Neyland the score in that game would be pretty similar to the Oregon - Nicholls State game.

Unless of course you are saying our players are no better than a Division 1-AA FCS school?



Why can't you grasp the simple concept that Saturday was not about Butch or Tennessee or Worley or anything even remotely orange?

Saturday was all about Oregon. It's not that we are that bad, it's the fact they are just that damn good! Maybe five teams could have gone in there and been competitive. We don't notice them week to week as they play out west where we generally don't care about unless it's a team beating Kiffin in USC. Oregon is the dominate team this year west of the Mississippi and more than likely will go to the National Championship. And for the life of me I cannot understand why you refuse to accept this simple concept and keep blaming our team and coaches for Oregon being as good as they are!

I refuse to argue or debate this with you any longer. Fact of the matter is, you are NOT qualified to make any judgment calls on how well the coach performed since you flat refuse to give credit to the other team for having a superior squad. Somehow in your mind you think we should have gone in there and won that game. And again, the deck chairs of the Titanic can be rearranged any way you darn well please and it won't change the end result. That game was lost before it was even started. The coaches knew, the players knew, the fans mostly knew, the sportscasters knew. Everyone knew the eventual outcome of the game! And so what if he made a mistake or two. It would not have changed the overall outcome had he coached the perfect game.

Once again, if you feel the coach made a couple of bad calls, I again invite you to offer your services to the University of Tennessee since you obviously know far better than CBJ on how to win a football game.

Good post man !!!

If SJT wants to look at coaching difference between Dooley and Jones.. He only needs to look at Palardy. I mean he has been good even after handling all of the kicking duties. I thought that dude could not be coached after what he did in the past couple years. But now he is alright.

 

[BIG ADAM]

im just glad that we don't have to hear how bad our team sucks after a loss. dooley was bad about that. He's had no business being a D1 HC. He had a really good team last year, and never could get control. Give jones that team last year and we end with a much better record. Jones is on a higher level than dooley could ever be.

 

[Titan&Volfan4life]

I think if we hit the field like we want to win, nothing can stop us from being the equal or better than Florida in their own house.

The talent is there, just need the desire and motivation to stomp a mudhole in their behinds.

THANKS for your positive attitude and optomism but reality forces me to disagree with you my friend.

We simply do NOT have the player talent at every starting position and are NOT even close on our 2 deep gameday roster and that's sad.

To become a top SEC or a top 10 ranked team like we all know we want to be again and like Tennessee should be then we simply MUST have quality STARTER level talent at every position and the STARTER level quality on the entire 2 deep gameday roster.

That's the main difference between our Vols and Bama, Oregon, ect that are top 10 teams now.

They take out a starter to get a breather and another starter quality player goes right in that's a year or 2 younger and their quality of play never misses a beat.

Teams like that never rebuild very often when they're getting lots of wins, they just reload with starting quality players with every recruiting class.

Recruiting the top players every year is MUCH easier when a program is getting lots of Wins and is ranked in the top 10 most every year.

We're still several years away from rebuilding back up to that level again unfortunately.

We badly NEED a serious upset or 2 of some top ranked teams just to get some serious attention from lots more top ranked recruits again.

The SEC is the hardest place in the country to rebuild from scratch again and adding Mo. and aTm to the SEC only made our recruiting much harder to get more top ranked players to the hill.

VFL...GBO!!!

 

[Wolfeman_Vol]

Nevermind lol

 

[FootVolintheFall]

If only our fans knew how to handle a loss

We do. "Change the QB!! Burn the redshirts!!!"

 

[Chattanooga Butchslappers]

We, our team, is in very good hands with CBJ. You are blind if you can't see the change taking place with team 117. The discipline, the energy, and willingness to compete is better than it has been in years. I hate a loss, any loss, but lets get the attitude that we don't back down from anybody, anytime. The rebuilding starts with the minds of the players. Coach is doing just that.

agree 100%...As long as im seeing progress, seeing the team get better (as you said: energy, competition, discipline), then I can live through the growing pains...Lets not be too reactionary and look at the long term plan...not to accept mediocrity, but lay the foundation for long term success (brick by brick...lol)

 

[thebjd]

If only our fans knew how to handle a loss

This is how to get likes on VN ladies and gentlemen.

 

[thebjd]

BS. There are holes... but coaches are paid to fill holes and scheme around weaknesses.

I have argued that this roster is better in talent than Dooley's first roster. It is less dependent on Fr and not as thin in as many positions so I believe it is. But let's say it is only equal... Dooley won six regular season games against a schedule every bit as difficult as this one. He should have won 8 if not for a couple of flukes.

Dooley complained about having to "recruit" as well.

This whole start to Jones' tenure is just WAY too deja vu to me.... and what will it suggest if he only wins six games like Dooley?

The difference is the recruiting and we are recruiting well. We will be as good as our personnel. I think that coaches can scheme a win or two but the team with better players win the games. We have good players but not even close to the Vol team with a losing record last year. I am not a fan of this offense and have said so from the beginning but any scheme will work with great players executing. The players and recruits are buying what he is selling and that is what matters.

 

[Grand Vol]

THANKS for your positive attitude and optomism but reality forces me to disagree with you my friend.

We simply do NOT have the player talent at every starting position and are NOT even close on our 2 deep gameday roster and that's sad.

To become a top SEC or a top 10 ranked team like we all know we want to be again and like Tennessee should be then we simply MUST have quality STARTER level talent at every position and the STARTER level quality on the entire 2 deep gameday roster.

That's the main difference between our Vols and Bama, Oregon, ect that are top 10 teams now.

They take out a starter to get a breather and another starter quality player goes right in that's a year or 2 younger and their quality of play never misses a beat.

Teams like that never rebuild very often when they're getting lots of wins, they just reload with starting quality players with every recruiting class.

Recruiting the top players every year is MUCH easier when a program is getting lots of Wins and is ranked in the top 10 most every year.

We're still several years away from rebuilding back up to that level again unfortunately.

We badly NEED a serious upset or 2 of some top ranked teams just to get some serious attention from lots more top ranked recruits again.

The SEC is the hardest place in the country to rebuild from scratch again and adding Mo. and aTm to the SEC only made our recruiting much harder to get more top ranked players to the hill.

VFL...GBO!!!

I don't disagree and I'm a realist as well. However, I do believe (or hope) the loss at Oregon has created anger and outright controlled rage in the team for the next opponent. And in that controlled rage comes a potential victory.

While we are short at critical positions, especially on defense, that can be the tipping point towards a win on the team's part. I saw them come out in straight beast mode against Western Kentucky. While yes, they are a sub standard program that has a long way to go, the team still went in especially on defense and handled business in a manner which would have made just about any SEC team proud. Our offense struggled the first half, but ended up firing pretty good the second half.

Difference in coaching I think. And if CBJ is good on his word from the post game conference and from the Monday interview, he's been in the team's behind all week getting them prepped. When it comes down to it, Miami doesn't have any more talent than we do and I think the desire was what helped put them over the top.

I'm thinking that game will be a lot closer than most give it credit for and a win is certainly achievable.