India Plans to DOUBLE Coal Use by 2040

#26
#26
landscapingvol said:
It's 2022, 86 years is nearly 100 years. The iphone didn't exist but nuclear, natural gas, and hydroelectricity do exist as opposed to coal fired plants. China began industrializing 60 years ago. They are using cheap forms of energy because they do not care about the impact on the environment and they want to keep manufacturing costs low. India has a problem that it cannot overcome without massive changes. Their population is too large for their nation's size and resources. No amount of cheap energy or modernizing will overcome that issue
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They cannot afford them. China is a third world country. India is a third world country. It is a narrow but necessary path from third world to first world.
 
#27
#27
midnight orange said:
I’m comparing it to today because going from 3rd world to 1st world is a process and most countries don’t make it from 3rd to 1st.
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The US had plenty of infrastructure, modernization, and education at the turn of the 20th century which is the delineation. A developing nation or a first World nation doesn't mean there aren't issues in rural areas. We weren't a World power but we certainly weren't a Third World Nation by any stretch of the imagination
 
#29
#29
landscapingvol said:
The US had plenty of infrastructure, modernization, and education at the turn of the 20th century which is the delineation. A developing nation or a first World nation doesn't mean there aren't issues in rural areas. We weren't a World power but we certainly weren't a Third World Nation by any stretch of the imagination
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We were a third world nation as compared to today. We went through the proces like India and China are attempting today.
 
#32
#32
midnight orange said:
We were a third world nation as compared to today. We went through the proces like India and China are attempting today.
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Compared to today, yes. At the beginning of 1900's, using your analogy, all countries were 3rd world. But at that time, the US was as mordern as any country.
 
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#33
#33
AshG said:
This is a bad move.

More power means more capacity for call centers. More call centers means more scam and spam calls. Or more unintelligible tech and account support offshoring.
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What you talking about Willis? Warning: Bad language. We've all been through this. Btw, I have a lot of respected IT/IS professionals from this country I work with.

 
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#35
#35
Hey, remember when everyone ignored the fact places like China and India got a pass for over 20 years in the Paris Treaty?

Yeah, this is why we don't kill our own economy for feel good measures when others are allowed to pollute at will.
 
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#36
#36
Grand Vol said:
Hey, remember when everyone ignored the fact places like China and India got a pass for over 20 years in the Paris Treaty?

Yeah, this is why we don't kill our own economy for feel good measures when others are allowed to pollute at will.
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But sir, our conscience is clean.

What a crock of crap. Maybe we can unload these progs on these Earth killers.
 
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#40
#40
landscapingvol said:
Much of India's issues post colonization are self inflicted, the out of date Caste system impoverished millions of people and still impoverishes millions of people. The white middle class and European colonization have nothing to do with that
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White middle class, in India?
 
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#42
#42
midnight orange said:
They cannot afford them. China is a third world country. India is a third world country. It is a narrow but necessary path from third world to first world.
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I guess by Third World you mean poor. China has not been poor for a while. They're in the World Bank's upper middle income bracket. If you've been there or have noticed their lending and development projects around the world it would be clear that they have money to invest. They can afford pretty much what they want.
India is still poor although their economy is slowly moving up. They've got some structural barriers to overcome if they want to get into high gear.
 
#43
#43
EasternVol said:
I guess by Third World you mean poor. China has not been poor for a while. They're in the World Bank's upper middle income bracket. If you've been there or have noticed their lending and development projects around the world it would be clear that they have money to invest. They can afford pretty much what they want.
India is still poor although their economy is slowly moving up. They've got some structural barriers to overcome if they want to get into high gear.
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I go to China frequently. It’s third world outside of a few cities. I’ve noticed development projects in China that are abandoned as in clusters of buildings the size of downtown Atlanta that are empty. Lots of new construction that is already deteriorating.
 
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#44
#44
landscapingvol said:
It's 2022, 86 years is nearly 100 years. The iphone didn't exist but nuclear, natural gas, and hydroelectricity do exist as opposed to coal fired plants. China began industrializing 60 years ago. They are using cheap forms of energy because they do not care about the impact on the environment and they want to keep manufacturing costs low. India has a problem that it cannot overcome without massive changes. Their population is too large for their nation's size and resources. No amount of cheap energy or modernizing will overcome that issue
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We and other countries like us are enablers because we will buy stuff China makes cheaply because they don't care about the environment. Sometimes the more rational course is not to cut off your nose to spite your face. We should have dealt with overinflated manufacturing costs driven by wages, taxes, and environmental regulations a long time ago. Moderation is a far better strategy than self immolation. Too bad our political "leaders" are neither leaders nor visionaries.
 
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#45
#45
midnight orange said:
I go to China frequently. It’s third world outside of a few cities. I’ve noticed development projects in China that are abandoned as in clusters of buildings the size of downtown Atlanta that are empty. Lots of new construction that is already deteriorating.
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They're not Lichtenstein but they're far from poor on a global measure. They're middle of the pack, and with their population that gives their government a huge revenue base.
 
#46
#46
AM64 said:
We and other countries like us are enablers because we will buy stuff China makes cheaply because they don't care about the environment. Sometimes the more rational course is not to cut off your nose to spite your face. We should have dealt with overinflated manufacturing costs driven by wages, taxes, and environmental regulations a long time ago. Moderation is a far better strategy than self immolation. Too bad our political "leaders" are neither leaders nor visionaries.
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You could say "...the environment or human rights." We could make most of those products here, with environmental safeguards and labor rights and the companies would still make money, but not as much as making them there.
 
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#47
#47
AM64 said:
We and other countries like us are enablers because we will buy stuff China makes cheaply because they don't care about the environment. Sometimes the more rational course is not to cut off your nose to spite your face. We should have dealt with overinflated manufacturing costs driven by wages, taxes, and environmental regulations a long time ago. Moderation is a far better strategy than self immolation. Too bad our political "leaders" are neither leaders nor visionaries.
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:SIGH:

This gets old. There is no one that can convince me that in 2022, wages are the biggest drag on manufacturing. Sure, the AFL/CIO is the outlier. I get it. But outside of them, I just can't buy this worn out excuse anymore.
 
#48
#48
EasternVol said:
They're not Lichtenstein but they're far from poor on a global measure. They're middle of the pack, and with their population that gives their government a huge revenue base.
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China is wealthier than they were 40 years ago but they only had one way to go. Forgive me for being skeptical of any figures coming out of China. Here’s a good litmus test: if it smells like a tire fire when your feet hit the ground, you might be in a third world country.
 
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#49
#49
Rasputin_Vol said:
:SIGH:

This gets old. There is no one that can convince me that in 2022, wages are the biggest drag on manufacturing. Sure, the AFL/CIO is the outlier. I get it. But outside of them, I just can't buy this worn out excuse anymore.
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Wages are a cost of manufacturing just like any number of other "ingredients". US labor is overpriced with respect to the rest of the world; it could work when we built largely within the country, but we were always going to lose when globalism became the game. If it costs you $10 to manufacture something that is done elsewhere for $4, you are going to lose. The AFL/CIO caused the wage inflation - higher labor cost without matching productivity - that's basically the definition of inflation. The government aided and abetted unions by not applying antitrust regulation to unions, and then threw fuel on the fire by increasing minimum wages. One of my economics profs actually used the term "ratification" for bumping minimum wages to somewhat follow union wage increases. We basically "wage inflated" ourselves into a non competitive manufacturer.
 
#50
#50
AM64 said:
Wages are a cost of manufacturing just like any number of other "ingredients". US labor is overpriced with respect to the rest of the world; it could work when we built largely within the country, but we were always going to lose when globalism became the game. If it costs you $10 to manufacture something that is done elsewhere for $4, you are going to lose. The AFL/CIO caused the wage inflation - higher labor cost without matching productivity - that's basically the definition of inflation. The government aided and abetted unions by not applying antitrust regulation to unions, and then threw fuel on the fire by increasing minimum wages. One of my economics profs actually used the term "ratification" for bumping minimum wages to somewhat follow union wage increases. We basically "wage inflated" ourselves into a non competitive manufacturer.
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I think if we factor in productivity then US labor is not substantially overpriced. That being said, abuses by unions did a lot to increase unit costs. I often heard of less than half a shift working, and the rest sleeping, in union operations near where I grew up. We need to remedy that to reestablish our manufacturing base.
 
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