India Plans to DOUBLE Coal Use by 2040

#53
#53
Rasputin_Vol said:
:SIGH:

This gets old. There is no one that can convince me that in 2022, wages are the biggest drag on manufacturing. Sure, the AFL/CIO is the outlier. I get it. But outside of them, I just can't buy this worn out excuse anymore.
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I agree to an extent. Wages (union driven) are part of the problem. There are other factors that hurt as well, like:

Overregulation
EPA overregulation
Taxes
Cost of living (what you see in California and New York will always spread)
Overregulation
Hostile political regimes that support unions (even when it hurts the unions like Keystone, they still support those who are destroying their jobs because those at the top are gonna get paid)
Overregulation

You think about what should be easy for us when it comes down to it. Recycling for instance. Why is it cheaper to toss plastic on a boat, ship it to China and have it recycled/repurposed? Are you telling me there is not a good reason we shouldn't have an organic industry that focuses solely on recycling plastics, metals, paper products, glass and electronics?

I'll tell you why. Because the EPA (and FDA until recently) regulations make it impossible to keep such a thing going except by the largest manufacturers. Now, I get it, there are some things that absolutely need virgin plastics. But you cannot for the life of me explain why we need even half if not a quarter of demand for new plastics...

Or metals we throw away...

Or electronics...

Or glass... which used to be huge.

Because of overregulation...
 
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#54
#54
EasternVol said:
I guess by Third World you mean poor. China has not been poor for a while. They're in the World Bank's upper middle income bracket. If you've been there or have noticed their lending and development projects around the world it would be clear that they have money to invest. They can afford pretty much what they want.
India is still poor although their economy is slowly moving up. They've got some structural barriers to overcome if they want to get into high gear.
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They afford stuff the same way our government does. Made up money and controlled markets
 
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#55
#55
EasternVol said:
I guess by Third World you mean poor. China has not been poor for a while. They're in the World Bank's upper middle income bracket. If you've been there or have noticed their lending and development projects around the world it would be clear that they have money to invest. They can afford pretty much what they want.
India is still poor although their economy is slowly moving up. They've got some structural barriers to overcome if they want to get into high gear.
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China would be the poorest state in the US by far. Their per capita GDP is about 1/3 that of Mississippi. Not even comparable. You can't afford much at all on 12,000 a year. The idea of Chinese economic supremacy is misguided at best.
 
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#56
#56
Vol8188 said:
China would be the poorest state in the US by far. Their per capita GDP is about 1/3 that of Mississippi. Not even comparable. You can't afford much at all on 12,000 a year. The idea of Chinese economic supremacy is misguided at best.
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Individually they can't afford much on their personal incomes. But that huge population multiplied by their per capita income gives them the world's second largest economy. That's a huge revenue pool for their government. It's more that they've got the means to push their agenda than that they're economically supreme. Their per capita income will continue to increase given their investments in education and infrastructure.
 
#57
#57
EasternVol said:
Individually they can't afford much on their personal incomes. But that huge population multiplied by their per capita income gives them the world's second largest economy. That's a huge revenue pool for their government. It's more that they've got the means to push their agenda than that they're economically supreme. Their per capita income will continue to increase given their investments in education and infrastructure.
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Sure, their overall economy is large but things such as energy policy are per capita problems. A lot of poor people pooled together is still a poor country and energy policy is more of a per capita than it is a gross problem.

I think you're greatly over estimating the impact of education and infrastructure given I don't imagine either of those things are new in China. Although I can't proclaim to know a ton about the history of Chinese investments in education and infrastructure, only that I don't think it's new.

On top of that they have an aging population problem.

Edit: Looks like it peaked in 94 and is down about 5% since.

China Education Spending 1983-2022
 
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#58
#58
Vol8188 said:
Sure, their overall economy is large but things such as energy policy are per capita problems. A lot of poor people pooled together is still a poor country and energy policy is more of a per capita than it is a gross problem.

I think you're greatly over estimating the impact of education and infrastructure given I don't imagine either of those things are new in China. Although I can't proclaim to know a ton about the history of Chinese investments in education and infrastructure, only that I don't think it's new.

On top of that they have an aging population problem.

Edit: Looks like it peaked in 94 and is down about 5% since.

China Education Spending 1983-2022
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What astounds me is that people look at the number of Chinese and see a market. The never seem to look deeper at how little those people have and have as income. China isn't a market for consumer goods; and with their ability to produce knockoffs, they likely never will be. Sure they will buy some stuff like planes until they copy and produce their own, but that still doesn't make China a market for manufactured goods. At best China wants raw materials, technology (preferably without paying), and our markets. Nobody throughout history has been given a fair shake with China - it's not in their genes.
 
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#59
#59
I don’t care what they burn that’s on them , I just want to know how our government is going to try and make us pay for what they are doing … tax wise ,
 
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#61
#61
TNVOLNAVY said:
and China isn’t slowing down either.

As the USA and Europe retreat from prosperity, India seems determined to overtake China, with a 400 million ton boost to coal production in the next two years, and a massive relaxation of environmental rules and other incentives to boost coal mining and industry.

Net Zero? India Plans to DOUBLE Coal Use by 2040
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No wonder India is a backwater
 
#63
#63
Vol8188 said:
You seem to have it backwards. The poverty came first not the coal
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The fact that they're making 19th century industrial moves in the 21st century is the reason they're a backwater. Can't wait to see their new fleet of Zeppelins too.
 
#64
#64
Ashevolle said:
The fact that they're making 19th century industrial moves in the 21st century is the reason they're a backwater. Can't wait to see their new fleet of Zeppelins too.
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Or alternatively (and more likely) they're relatively poor like we were in the 19th century and therefore are limited in their options.
 
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#65
#65
Ashevolle said:
The fact that they're making 19th century industrial moves in the 21st century is the reason they're a backwater. Can't wait to see their new fleet of Zeppelins too.
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Or alternatively (and more likely) they're relatively poor like we were in the 19th century and therefore are limited in their options.
 
#66
#66
Ashevolle said:
The fact that they're making 19th century industrial moves in the 21st century is the reason they're a backwater. Can't wait to see their new fleet of Zeppelins too.
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So they should pay more for electricity, which will raise costs of manufacturing and everything else and thus hinder economic growth and keep them a backwater?
 
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#68
#68
Vol8188 said:
Sure, their overall economy is large but things such as energy policy are per capita problems. A lot of poor people pooled together is still a poor country and energy policy is more of a per capita than it is a gross problem.

I think you're greatly over estimating the impact of education and infrastructure given I don't imagine either of those things are new in China. Although I can't proclaim to know a ton about the history of Chinese investments in education and infrastructure, only that I don't think it's new.

On top of that they have an aging population problem.

Edit: Looks like it peaked in 94 and is down about 5% since.

China Education Spending 1983-2022
Click to expand...


And that is their biggest problem. One that can't be fixed anytime soon either.
 
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#70
#70
85SugarVol said:
China is a 2nd World country
India is a 3rd World country
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The entire 1st world, 2nd world, and 3rd world system definition kind of went away after the Cold War. The true meaning was the following:

First World - Democratic nations that were modern and typically were in the USA Alliance branch (Japan, South Korea, NATO, Israel, etc.)

Second World - The Warsaw Pact and Communist Countries (China was ALWAYS second world)

Third World - Neutral Countries that are typically poorer. The First and Second Worlds fought for influence over these nations
 
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#71
#71
volbound1700 said:
The entire 1st world, 2nd world, and 3rd world system definition kind of went away after the Cold War. The true meaning was the following:

First World - Democratic nations that were modern and typically were in the USA Alliance branch (Japan, South Korea, NATO, Israel, etc.)

Second World - The Warsaw Pact and Communist Countries (China was ALWAYS second world)

Third World - Neutral Countries that are typically poorer. The First and Second Worlds fought for influence over these nations
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Indeed
 
#72
#72
EasternVol said:
So they should pay more for electricity, which will raise costs of manufacturing and everything else and thus hinder economic growth and keep them a backwater?
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They should keep doing what they're doing. The world needs ditch diggers
 
#75
#75
Ashevolle said:
As compared to what? Coal isn't even forecast to be the cheapest electricity source in 20 years.
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The studies you’re talking about are US specific. The cost of resources depends on where you are. But if I’m wrong and you have data showing India has cheaper options, please provide it
 
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